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TI razor won't cut

I have a TI, a really pretty razor. I can't get it to cut hair on my arm,"tree topping"...I have worked on every stone I have, and no luck. I have tried many stones, diamond spray, and stropped till I am weak. I am not new to razors or honing, but I must admit I feel defeated. Help me with your advice, I need it. Thanks so much.
 
I have a TI, a really pretty razor. I can't get it to cut hair on my arm,"tree topping"...I have worked on every stone I have, and no luck. I have tried many stones, diamond spray, and stropped till I am weak. I am not new to razors or honing, but I must admit I feel defeated. Help me with your advice, I need it. Thanks so much.


Have you tried shaving with it.
Tree topping means nothing really. It still may shave great.
The shave is what matters, unless you're just trying to rid your arm of hair.
 
What S&S said.

The only other thing I can think of is if the geometry of the blade is off? If you're proficient at honing you should be able recognize this though.

Chris
 

steveclarkus

Goose Poop Connoisseur
I have a TI, a really pretty razor. I can't get it to cut hair on my arm,"tree topping"...I have worked on every stone I have, and no luck. I have tried many stones, diamond spray, and stropped till I am weak. I am not new to razors or honing, but I must admit I feel defeated. Help me with your advice, I need it. Thanks so much.
For a simple and sure method of honing read the honing compendium for newbies. It’s the first sticky under the general straight razor sub forum.
 

steveclarkus

Goose Poop Connoisseur
I have a TI, a really pretty razor. I can't get it to cut hair on my arm,"tree topping"...I have worked on every stone I have, and no luck. I have tried many stones, diamond spray, and stropped till I am weak. I am not new to razors or honing, but I must admit I feel defeated. Help me with your advice, I need it. Thanks so much.
Correction - the sticky is under the homes and honing sub forum.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Sounds like it simply isn't sharp. How is the shave?

Keep in mind that honing is based on the bevel. It is all about the bevel. The two sides must meet at a good, tight apex. If they don't, no amount of polishing the bevel faces will cause the edge to be sharp. You must verify that the bevel is properly set at about the 1k level before proceeding with the progression. This is essential. It must be set from one end of the edge to the other, no gaps in between. How you do this verification is up to you, and there are several methods including simply eyeballing the edge under a very bright light with a powerful magnifying glass or a loupe. Hand held microscopes are very useful but for verifying the overall bevel you need a wider field of view and longer focal depth for better mobility. The naked eye is often quite good enough once you know what you are looking at, if the light source is very strong.

My usual recommendation is to set the bevel by the burr method. If done properly, a minimum amount of steel is wasted, and this should only need to be done once for as long as you own the razor, so no biggie anyway. The burr method is sort of self-verifying. A lot of guys will scream heresy here, but the fact remains that it is a very objective method easily learned in one go, with no guesswork involved. So feel free to use it a few times and then go to simply honing with regular laps until the bevel is set and proven by inspection and testing.

There should be no reason that a TI will not hone up nice and sharp. But you do have to do your part, and begin with a verified bevel from end to end. This is not optional and not something to guess or assume just because you have X number of laps on your 1k.

Now assuming your bevel is, in fact, properly set. Each stage of honing, each change of grit, must result in the scratches left by the previous grit being totally obliterated and replaced by the finer scratches of the current stage. You can't expect a 12k finisher to remove 1k scratches. It won't happen any time soon.

I am assuming from your first post that you understand the basics of keeping the spine on the hone, and regulating pressure. I am also assuming that you are properly equipped with decent quality stones that are properly lapped.

I will offer this tidbit for you. If you are honing with the stone or plate resting on a fixed surface such as a table or desk or workbench, stop right there. Learn to hone in hand. Instead of trying to force the blade into proper alignment with the hone and trying desperately to "control" the blade with two hands on it, hold the hone in your off hand, out in front of you, unsupported. Let the razor and hone find their own alignment with both floating free in front of you. It is MUCH easier to regulate pressure that way. Go back to bench honing later, if you must. Honing in hand takes only a few minutes to learn and will be an epiphany for you if you have never done it.

The Method is found in the Newbie Honing Compendium and all it's linked threads. If you read the whole works beginning to end, and follow the instructions in their final, latest form, you are going to get a crazy sharp edge at least by your second attempt. The Method was an effort to totally define and codify a honing style and leave nothing to subjective judgement or guesswork, and eliminate going off in unproductive tangents by novice honers. The Method doesn't JUST work. It is easy, quick to learn, inexpensive, and gives superior edges matched with other styles of honing only by masters of the craft. I will warn you that it is a big read. The lapping film thread alone has become a weighty tome by itself. I will also warn that not following The Method perfectly in every detail will yield only mediocre results similar to what the average guy gets using the same old random techniques and tools. For The Method to work for you with optimum results, you have to be willing to follow instructions exactly and precisely, with no experimentation, substitutions, additions, or omissions.
 
THanks everyone, looks like I have some reading to do. I am noticing left side of toe has good bevel, right side almost none. Right heel side good bevel, left side almost none. Blade measures true in all directions. Just a thought: the shoulder on this blade may be keeping it from sitting flat. I am slowly getting there, but this is way more work than fun. I used to LOVE honing blades, but not this one.
GDJ
 
I would start with a sharpie test. Run this down the bevel on both sides and lightly hone a couple of x strokes on a finishing stone. That should show how well it is making contact. (Where the sharpie remains you have a contact problem - you will need to roll your x strokes to compensate.)

Alternatively, try a tap test - best done on a diamond plate or a lapping plate.

I have a really nice high end TI and the geometry is a little wonky. Well, actually it's quite far out. Shaves beautifully though.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Slash, where do I find the "burr method"?
Thanks so much everyone

In the first page of the Newbie Honing Compendium you will find links to the three most essential parts of The Method, one of which is the burr method of setting the bevel.

The reason for not getting a bevel at heel or toe on one side or the other is either poor grinding that leaves the edge out of alignment with the spine, (which is of course your honing angle guide) or misapplied or unbalanced honing pressure. If you simply keep honing, that should answer the first scenario, as long as you are not also causing the second one. Everyone has a different personal fist when honing, little irregularities like shifting the pressure through the stroke, or picking up the heel or toe, stuff like that. Honing in hand reduces these effects considerably. You can of course roll up to hit the toe or roll down to hit the heel, but this only perpetuates and sometimes will even aggravate the problem.

Another common cause of poor honing results is indeed riding the shoulder up on the hone. Often it is done on one side and not the other simply because of the mechanics involved with the hand torque being reversed. Again, honing in hand is often the cure, but also you must be careful not to ride the shoulder on the hone. Honing with the heel leading a bit is a common cure. A good X stroke also helps but will still give you excessive wear on one side or the other at the toe if you are honing the shoulder. Note that too much wear at the toe on one side shifts the apex so much to the other side that the bevel disappears entirely from the toe. In this case, either roll up at the end of the stroke on that side, (which as I said, perpetuates the root cause of the problem) or just hone hone hone, and be okay with that last 1/4" or 1/8" not shaving well and eventually the rest of the edge will wear enough to catch up and then the razor will once more hone normally. Your choice, but I could care less if the very tip shaves or not. In fact I would really rather it didn't. Same with the heel, on some razors.
 

Chandu

I Waxed The Badger.
I wouldn't think TI would be a good razor material at all. Can you get it sharp, will it hold an edge? TI tends to be much softer than steel.
 
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