I am currently drooling over this stone. Whereabouts is the git of these stones? 10-12k? How much are they worth? Here I am shopping for a $20 barbers hone and I stumble upon this!
Thuringen
- Thread starter Chicken Enchilada
- Start date
It varies like any other natural stone, but yeah somewhere in that vicinity - they're roughly comparable to a coticule though there's some debate as to which one is finer it really depends on the individual stones, and even then you're usually not talking a great range of difference. The next big step up in natural hones are the japanese nakayama stones. The green and yellow-green eschers tend to be finer than the grey ones. I kept my greenish-gray thuringen and sold my coticule, FWIW.
Good ones are expensive though, at one point yellow-green eschers were running $300-$400 on ebay. I have no idea what that one will go for.
Have barber hones become scarce on ebay? At one time you could get NOS ones fairly easily.
Good ones are expensive though, at one point yellow-green eschers were running $300-$400 on ebay. I have no idea what that one will go for.
Have barber hones become scarce on ebay? At one time you could get NOS ones fairly easily.
I have owned a Thurengien and I have owned and still own an Escher (type) hone.
They are different. So the title on the one you have found confuses me.
The Thurengien is usually grey to grey black in colour and has a grit which I thought was slightly lower than a Belgian Coticule so lets say about a 7500 grit if the coticue is 8000. They are usually quite large 8" by 3" hones and not very expensive. They are bit messy to use but they do a great job.
The Escher hone is slate blue in colour and different hones can get to a green and even a yellow green in colour. As they go from blue to yellow green they get more refined and I would say that they go from 8500 to 12000 grit.
The escher is a denser clay type material to the thurengian. It's cleaner to use and I kept mine because I preferred it to the Belgian coticule. I use it for touch ups on my own razors and I like it a lot.
I like the look of the one you have found and I would take a chance with it.
It looks more Escher than Thurengien. I suspect it will be better than a coticule. The size is fine and the price is great.
Somtimes you just have to take achance with these natural hones. But if it was put in a box, somebody thought it was special.
They are different. So the title on the one you have found confuses me.
The Thurengien is usually grey to grey black in colour and has a grit which I thought was slightly lower than a Belgian Coticule so lets say about a 7500 grit if the coticue is 8000. They are usually quite large 8" by 3" hones and not very expensive. They are bit messy to use but they do a great job.
The Escher hone is slate blue in colour and different hones can get to a green and even a yellow green in colour. As they go from blue to yellow green they get more refined and I would say that they go from 8500 to 12000 grit.
The escher is a denser clay type material to the thurengian. It's cleaner to use and I kept mine because I preferred it to the Belgian coticule. I use it for touch ups on my own razors and I like it a lot.
I like the look of the one you have found and I would take a chance with it.
It looks more Escher than Thurengien. I suspect it will be better than a coticule. The size is fine and the price is great.
Somtimes you just have to take achance with these natural hones. But if it was put in a box, somebody thought it was special.
That black/gray hone sounds more like a german slate hone maybe, like the ones you see on some of the german paddles? The thuringen hones I've seen, and the one I own, looks like and acts like an escher down to the greenish color - from what I've read they supposedly even came from the same quarry, that escher was just a brand of thuringens that tended towards the higher-end stones.
I am not so sure. The black grey hone (excuse my spelling) had a very different texture. It had a mirror finish when you splashed water on it, but the
escher is more a matt finish. Mind you, they may indeed come from the same quarry. Despite trying many hones, I still like the finish an escher gives. It's a smooth finish. The black grey despite looking super smooth on the surface, it just didn't deliver the sharpness.
There are many different types of thuringians.
I personally devide into two different types overall,
those mined before WWII and those mined after.
I believe the original mine has been closed after wwII.
That´s why those types of Thuringians are vanished and that expensive.
Esher, as far as I know, is one brand under wich early pre wwII thuringians have been sold.
Those usually come ligh grey have a distinct smell of chalk when sharpened on or lapped.
I have a small one of those and I rate it at the Naniwa Superstone 10k level.
The good thing is, it polishes just as extremely as the SS 10k does,
wich is absolutely beautiful.
I have only tried this grey thuringian.
I however have another very dark and small thuringian,
pre wwII as well. It is a bit "coarser" around 8-9k I guess,
and leaves a bit matt finish.
I can very well shave straight from my light grey thuringian,
without pasting. HHT comes right after stropping.
Nowadays companies like MST sell other turingians.
Quite uniform and all very dark. They have the disting chalk smell as well.
Those hardly compare to the vintage thuringians and range about 6-8k JIS.
Still those are nice hones.
Eshers are most certainly no hones anybody needs.
You can get similar results with a much cheaper and more commonly availiable SS 10k that sells here in europe for around 50€!
Those are collectables and that´s why they are expensive.
Not because they are magical hones
They are nice, I can tell, but not worth a hundred bucks,(or way more)
if you just want to sharpen your blades
Thuringian hones are all slate types.
Slate can appear in many different shapes, collors and grit rates.
Many of those slates contain clay, wich is an aluminium-silicon compund
that is very fine per definition (must be less than 2micron) and has slight cutting power.
That´s mainly why they work.
There are other slates like the Welsh dragons toungue
and a rather new slate mined from Lollarheil near Thüringen in Deutschland.
The most fine hone I came across until now (note I don´t own any type of Nakayama)
Those can be found at olivias webpage, who makes shaving supplies as well
I personally devide into two different types overall,
those mined before WWII and those mined after.
I believe the original mine has been closed after wwII.
That´s why those types of Thuringians are vanished and that expensive.
Esher, as far as I know, is one brand under wich early pre wwII thuringians have been sold.
Those usually come ligh grey have a distinct smell of chalk when sharpened on or lapped.
I have a small one of those and I rate it at the Naniwa Superstone 10k level.
The good thing is, it polishes just as extremely as the SS 10k does,
wich is absolutely beautiful.
I have only tried this grey thuringian.
I however have another very dark and small thuringian,
pre wwII as well. It is a bit "coarser" around 8-9k I guess,
and leaves a bit matt finish.
I can very well shave straight from my light grey thuringian,
without pasting. HHT comes right after stropping.
Nowadays companies like MST sell other turingians.
Quite uniform and all very dark. They have the disting chalk smell as well.
Those hardly compare to the vintage thuringians and range about 6-8k JIS.
Still those are nice hones.
Eshers are most certainly no hones anybody needs.
You can get similar results with a much cheaper and more commonly availiable SS 10k that sells here in europe for around 50€!
Those are collectables and that´s why they are expensive.
Not because they are magical hones
They are nice, I can tell, but not worth a hundred bucks,(or way more)
if you just want to sharpen your blades
Thuringian hones are all slate types.
Slate can appear in many different shapes, collors and grit rates.
Many of those slates contain clay, wich is an aluminium-silicon compund
that is very fine per definition (must be less than 2micron) and has slight cutting power.
That´s mainly why they work.
There are other slates like the Welsh dragons toungue
and a rather new slate mined from Lollarheil near Thüringen in Deutschland.
The most fine hone I came across until now (note I don´t own any type of Nakayama)
Those can be found at olivias webpage, who makes shaving supplies as well
My understanding is that there is nothing mined after WW2 - those are some pre-WW2 mined blocks that were not cut into hones.
I think there is often a confusion with the stuff that Muller sells - some people call these Thuringians and thus consider all Thuringian hones without the Escher label to be like them. The better differentiation in my view as far as honing properties is whether they are old or new.
I have owned somewhere between 15 and 20 thuringians, half of them bearing Escher labels of various colors and sizes. The differences among the vintage ones are much smaller than the difference between them and the Muller's hones. Furthermore I don't think the color is relevant for predicting how fine the hone is and this is consistent with the observation of at least one more person with huge collection of these.
I use vintage thuringians and eschers after naniwa 12000. I find a noticeable improvement, so that's what I do. Recently somebody told me the same thing works for them too. I haven't used my coticules in a while so I'm not sure what they would do after the naniwa 12000, but when I used them after norton 8000 as a general trend I liked the edges off the thuringians slightly better than off the coticules.
I think there is often a confusion with the stuff that Muller sells - some people call these Thuringians and thus consider all Thuringian hones without the Escher label to be like them. The better differentiation in my view as far as honing properties is whether they are old or new.
I have owned somewhere between 15 and 20 thuringians, half of them bearing Escher labels of various colors and sizes. The differences among the vintage ones are much smaller than the difference between them and the Muller's hones. Furthermore I don't think the color is relevant for predicting how fine the hone is and this is consistent with the observation of at least one more person with huge collection of these.
I use vintage thuringians and eschers after naniwa 12000. I find a noticeable improvement, so that's what I do. Recently somebody told me the same thing works for them too. I haven't used my coticules in a while so I'm not sure what they would do after the naniwa 12000, but when I used them after norton 8000 as a general trend I liked the edges off the thuringians slightly better than off the coticules.
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This is my hone. It isn't an Escher because it doesn't come from the Escher Company. It does come from the same mine that Escher quarried its hones from.
I purchased it direct from MST. At the time they sold this hone, they also sold a lesser quality grey black hone. I also bought one of them but subsequently sold it. I have also had and sold a vintage Escher.
I kept the best of three hones I have owned. The newly cut hone from MST is circa 6" by 3" and easier to use than the thin vintage narrow esher I had. As to quality, I prefer the newly cut hone. Incidentally, not all MST Escher type hones were green, some were blue.
I also have a Japanese finishing hone.
It's the hone on the left
It's a similar size to the MST cut escher type hone. It's also a similar colour, a bit lighter. With a dappled pattern to the surface. A bit like the skin of a pair. I think the Japanese have a name for this.
The finished edge off the MST cut escher type hone is softer than the edge off the Japanese hone. The Japanese hone has a finer grit and the edge is sharper. It's a bit like comparing a Feather DE edge with the old Swedish Gillette DE edge. One is sharper one is smoother.
Which one is best? Everyone always wants to know which is the best?
Well there is no answer to this qusetion. All these quality natural stones are slightly different. No two coticules are the same. I enjoy both of my finishing hones for different reasons. I don't think one is better than the other they are both good.
I purchased it direct from MST. At the time they sold this hone, they also sold a lesser quality grey black hone. I also bought one of them but subsequently sold it. I have also had and sold a vintage Escher.
I kept the best of three hones I have owned. The newly cut hone from MST is circa 6" by 3" and easier to use than the thin vintage narrow esher I had. As to quality, I prefer the newly cut hone. Incidentally, not all MST Escher type hones were green, some were blue.
I also have a Japanese finishing hone.
It's the hone on the left
It's a similar size to the MST cut escher type hone. It's also a similar colour, a bit lighter. With a dappled pattern to the surface. A bit like the skin of a pair. I think the Japanese have a name for this.
The finished edge off the MST cut escher type hone is softer than the edge off the Japanese hone. The Japanese hone has a finer grit and the edge is sharper. It's a bit like comparing a Feather DE edge with the old Swedish Gillette DE edge. One is sharper one is smoother.
Which one is best? Everyone always wants to know which is the best?
Well there is no answer to this qusetion. All these quality natural stones are slightly different. No two coticules are the same. I enjoy both of my finishing hones for different reasons. I don't think one is better than the other they are both good.
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- Thread starter
- #10
There seems to be only one, maybe two Swatys up for bid at once, and the last few have gone for $50+ including shipping. That seems nuts to me since everyone says you can get them on ebay for $20-$30. I thought these things were a dime a dozen.
Really all I'm looking for is a stone for touch-ups. I'd like a Swaty, but I've been having trouble getting one. Are there any other good barbers hones besides Swatys? Are Keen Kutters, and Carborundums any good? If anyone has an unused Swaty lying around that they don't want shoot me a PM.
I might just pick up a Chinese 12k and use that for touch-ups. For $20 you can't beat it.
Apart, No. 00 Frictionite combinations, Dubl Duck combinations, Keen Kutters, Itsapeech, C-Mon combination, The Carborundum Co. 102 and pocket hone are just a few of the many good barber hones. The Chinese 12k is good, but slower than many of the barber hones.
well, that's how supply and demand works.
there are barber hones that are better than swatys as well as worse. but swatys are plentiful and good quality, so they are a standard recommendation.
but when everybody starts looking for a swaty the prices go up with the demand.
few years ago wapienicas were $8 brand new and $15 honed, these days people are selling them for $40 and up in the exact same condition. and let's not forget filarmonicas that classicsshaving sells for almost 4x what they selled them for just two years ago.
the market is just not static, ebay or not.
I think mparker is refering to the ebay seller redtrader who bought a warehouse of these but she sold them all over a year ago.
If I were you I'd just buy any barber hone that looks good and chances are it's going to work well. Some are medium but most of them are meant to be the last hone a razor touches.
there are barber hones that are better than swatys as well as worse. but swatys are plentiful and good quality, so they are a standard recommendation.
but when everybody starts looking for a swaty the prices go up with the demand.
few years ago wapienicas were $8 brand new and $15 honed, these days people are selling them for $40 and up in the exact same condition. and let's not forget filarmonicas that classicsshaving sells for almost 4x what they selled them for just two years ago.
the market is just not static, ebay or not.
I think mparker is refering to the ebay seller redtrader who bought a warehouse of these but she sold them all over a year ago.
If I were you I'd just buy any barber hone that looks good and chances are it's going to work well. Some are medium but most of them are meant to be the last hone a razor touches.
redtrader was the one I was thinking of. I got a NOS dubl duck combination hone from her for I think $30.
One risk with barber hones is that in some of them the binder is beginning to decay. One common symptom of this is that they appear very coarse, or the surface flakes off. But other than that Gugi is right, they all work pretty well. The common brownish-red barber hone seems to be about 9k, I've had quite a few over the years and they were fairly interchangeable.
Tried a coticule on three razors over the weekend. I have a newfound respect for that stone. Who needs a pyramid or progression when you can just use the coticule! Anyway, long story short, the answer to your question is that the edge is better than or just as good as the Nani 12k. I think it was better. Might post a write up of the coticule experiment if I find the time and/or enough interest.
Would love to try an escher, they're supposed to be 'the' standard against which all others are measured. Or at least thats what I've gathered.
I thought you had a Nakayama?
Rumors. All rumors.
Who let the cat out?... I don't even have it in my possession yet...
