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Thoughts on an Edge From a 30K Shapton Glass Stone

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
Hi @lightfoot, So far, I haven’t found any that I’ve tried to be harsh. Now keep in mind that I’m primarily a JNat person and don’t have that many high grit synths. I have a Suehiro 20k and the Shapton G7 0.44u and neither of them need anything to smooth the edges. I also have the 0.85u G7 (17k per Sharpening Supplies) and it’s not harsh either.

I suspect, but don’t know, that as someone else mentioned, proper edge prep before finishing is needed, and a bevel angle consistent with the particular steel supporting a high grit edge. You’ll know if the steel isn’t supporting the high grit edge, you’ll see it and feel it. The first thing to try in this case is a layer or two of tape on the spine.

Sakimoto (the Asano nagura fellow) uses Mikawa in synths to improve honing, so I’ve been thinking about a little JNat slurry from a good tomo nagura might be something to try on high grit synths, especially if you’re having some issues. Heck, I’ve been thinking about some JNat slurry on the La Lune but haven’t tried it yet.
 
Hi @lightfoot, So far, I haven’t found any that I’ve tried to be harsh. Now keep in mind that I’m primarily a JNat person and don’t have that many high grit synths. I have a Suehiro 20k and the Shapton G7 0.44u and neither of them need anything to smooth the edges. I also have the 0.85u G7 (17k per Sharpening Supplies) and it’s not harsh either.

I suspect, but don’t know, that as someone else mentioned, proper edge prep before finishing is needed, and a bevel angle consistent with the particular steel supporting a high grit edge. You’ll know if the steel isn’t supporting the high grit edge, you’ll see it and feel it. The first thing to try in this case is a layer or two of tape on the spine.

Sakimoto (the Asano nagura fellow) uses Mikawa in synths to improve honing, so I’ve been thinking about a little JNat slurry from a good tomo nagura might be something to try on high grit synths, especially if you’re having some issues. Heck, I’ve been thinking about some JNat slurry on the La Lune but haven’t tried it yet.
I would try creating a tomo slurry on a good awasado and then transfer it over to the synthetic if I were going to give that a test drive. That might offer a bit of control to creating the slurry.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
I would try creating a tomo slurry on a good awasado and then transfer it over to the synthetic if I were going to give that a test drive. That might offer a bit of control to creating the slurry.

I’m all ears! Post your findings please.
 
I would have to agree. I recently acquired the newly released LaLune and it compares very favorably with my vintage "extra fine" example.
Tested so far only on a very nice shaving LeGrelot, couple dozen laps on either stone to finish gets me to my wheelhouse after a 12K synth progression or a J-Nat progression to suita (mid range). I will be testing other steel soon.

As far as a synthetic feeling edge, it's subjective to my beard and face as it would be to anyone I suppose, but for me it's usually slightly tedious to shave with at these levels of sharp (20>30K) and very lightly crisper. More likely to produce a weeper and or irritation if I'm the least bit undisciplined in my technique. And TBH it's kind of boring, lacking flavor if you will, but that's just me.

As far as smoothing out a harsh synth edge, for me it's usually a few laps on a nice yellow Kiita w/ light tomo slurry unless the harshness is a result of micro chips then a re-finish is in order on my bench.
The idea of using J-Nat slurry on a synth to correct a harsh edge would perhaps be an interesting experiment but my solution has thus far been to just use the J-Nat w/ slurry to re-flavor the edge in question.
 
Got my stone today. Grabbed a couple pocket knives just to see. Lapped it and hit it with a benchmade knife (20cv steel) and a Spyderco maxamet. Both cut arm hair easily. They were doing that before. I can't believe how much swarf showed up on the stone. I always used diamonds for these types of steels as they are considered "super steels" lol. I will hone a razor or two just to see. Will post when I do.
 

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Got my stone today. Grabbed a couple pocket knives just to see. Lapped it and hit it with a benchmade knife (20cv steel) and a Spyderco maxamet. Both cut arm hair easily. They were doing that before. I can't believe how much swarf showed up on the stone. I always used diamonds for these types of steels as they are considered "super steels" lol. I will hone a razor or two just to see. Will post when I do.

For the price of the 30K stones, I wouldn't be surprised if they employed diamonds in them along with metal oxides.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
- - - I can't believe how much swarf showed up on the stone. I always used diamonds for these types of steels as they are considered "super steels" lol. I will hone a razor or two just to see. Will post when I do.

That’s what the Shapton HR and G7 series was designed to do Bill, cut hard, wear-resistant, semi-stainless steels. And they do it very well.

Some JNats will do about as well, but others won’t.
 
Lapped it on my Atoma 400 then 1200 took a little longer than I would have thought due to the price.
I seem to really dislike lapping to be honest. I've been thinking maybe the glass stones might need it less (either in frequency or degree) than the pro's or Naniwa. Maybe that first lapping is the worst of it?

FWIW, I found that there wasn’t a lot of difference between the 10k and 12k Naniwas SS and the Gokumyo 20k
Curious, do you (and/or anybody who has one) soak that Gokumyo? I've been somewhat confused on the splash-n-go vs soaking recommendations on that (and the Naniwas SS).
 
I seem to really dislike lapping to be honest. I've been thinking maybe the glass stones might need it less (either in frequency or degree) than the pro's or Naniwa. Maybe that first lapping is the worst of it?


Curious, do you (and/or anybody who has one) soak that Gokumyo? I've been somewhat confused on the splash-n-go vs soaking recommendations on that (and the Naniwas SS).
I have the 10 and 15k gokumyo, I had the 20k but sold it to a pal who really wanted it. I never did anything other than spritz them with water. Never soaked them, i never soaked my choseras either. Just spray and go. I have heard some who have soaked theirs. I also have heard of them crazing. But without soaking my 5k crazed and the 10k like crazy. The others (i also have the 600, 1k, 2k, and 3k) did not. I got 3/4 credit after almost a year from CKTG which i thought was very fair for the 10k. I am talking about the old line choseras(1 inch thick). Not the newer naniwa/chosera.
 
I seem to really dislike lapping to be honest. I've been thinking maybe the glass stones might need it less (either in frequency or degree) than the pro's or Naniwa. Maybe that first lapping is the worst of it?


Curious, do you (and/or anybody who has one) soak that Gokumyo? I've been somewhat confused on the splash-n-go vs soaking recommendations on that (and the Naniwas SS).

There is no need to soak it. Don't think it would absorb anything anyway.
Its ceramic based.
A splash of water will stay on the surface until you push it off.
 
I have done some testing with my GS 7 0.45 lately. It is a really fast cutter.
In my experience this stone really reveals bad ground work.
My last test was with an razor finished on a coticule. I i shaved of the coticule edge first. The edge was smooth and sharp enough. Then before the next shave i did only around 10 laps on the GS 7. That was enough to bump up the edge noticeably.
It was still smooth, but for me a little to much. I am not sure if any of the coticule fingerprint was left.
I am now waiting for my 0.85u G7, 3k HR and 6k HR to arrive. For my skin the 0.45 GS is a bit to much for daily shaving.
I like to use it after a natural stone. Maybe i will try to only use 5 laps after a coticule or a jnat.
Any suggestions how to get the most out of this stone?

I am also confused about the GS stones in general. I wish shapton would provide more information about the characteristics of each stone. Some of the stones have a more narrow grit distribution, and should thus be more suitable for razor honing. So when shapton recommends the 3k, 10k and 30k, is that due to a more narrow grit distribution in these, or is there any other reason? Would a 4k, 8K, 30k or 3k, 6k, 10k, 30k be just as good or better? I know they are designed to work in a 3x jump, but it seems like you have allot of options.
Due to their cutting speed is there a minimalist setup, like 6k to natural or 3k to natural finisher?
 
I reviewed the Shapton website recently and do not remember Shapton explicitly recommending specific grits for razors. Did the 3k, 10k and 30k come from Shapton or a seller?

I ask because I have 4k and 8k HRs, and could not be happier. That said, I would love to try a 30k GlassStone.


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I am not sure were this vendor got this chart, but i would assume this is based on information received from shapton?
I have the GS Seven 0.45, which is not on this cart. I was considering getting the 4k over the 3k, but there must be a reason why the 3k is more expensive than the 4k. Maybe it is just more expensive because it is a popular grit for knife sharpening.
Hopefully someone with a bit more knowledge an pitch in.
I am also wondering if the GS seven series is just a smaller version of the HR, or if there is a different formulation in these?

http://www.dogudoraku.com/catalog/images/2210/p/GlassSeries_2008_07_01_ver1.pdf

After some google translation here is a comparison between the 3k and the 4k (3k on the left). It seems like the particle distribution is similar, but the sharpening sensation is rated higher on the 3k. Maybe there is more polishing agents added to the 3k? It seems like they leave a similar scratch pattern.
Does anyone have an translated version of this document?

1627561871579.png
From this it clearly states that the 16k is not suitable for razors. The particle distribution is wider. It also seems like the 10k has a better particle distribution and a better sharpening sensation than the 30k. Both are rated as optimum for razors.

1627562230605.png
 
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When I bought my Shapton stones they had a chart inside them saying which stones were recommended for which applications. I don't remember exactly but I know that 12K and 30K were both listed as barber applications. I haven't seen the above chart.
 
It still looks to me like some of the information is from sellers, not from Shapton.

That said and for what it’s worth, Sharpening Supplies says “the G7 stones are unique, they are not simply smaller copies of the other Shapton Glass Stones.”

Like so much else, sometimes you just need to buy one to understand.

Frank


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I wish I could learn to hone. You dudes impress the snot out of me.

Maybe this winter?
It's not as complicated as it's made to be sometimes. Our ancestors honed their razors on rocks they found in the forests and mountains(many of which are still HIGHLY prized) and shaved using the reflections of a stream they used for water. Keep it basic, get a couple QUALITY hones and learn them, then learn them again. Independent with different steels and lubricants into you know exactly how your rock will react under most circumstances. Eventually you'll be able to do it while barely paying attention to it because you know your stones and steels so well.
 
Shapton Glass 30K gave me a very good shave. Not as keen as The Method, not as comfortable as a JNat, but darned good. Worlds better than the Naniwa 10K, which was merely respectable. I wasn't shy with the reps, either, I really made an edge that was all about the stone.
 
I use shapton glass for my synthetic progression. And after bevel set I use for say, modern 01 steel

4K - 12 laps
8k - 10 laps
16k - 8 laps
30k - 1 or 2 tops

This makes a very keen edge without getting harsh
 
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