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The Wanderer's Journey

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Think of it as a straight razor with a training wheel, the cap.

Remember, I've used a DE shavette, Mike, and a straight. This Grande felt more like it wanted to bite me than those did.

Find the right angle for the blade edge that you like and adjust pressure to make the blade engage.

I'll not be using pressure ;)

I think my touch was light enough, and didn't notice any chatter, so I'm assuming that I was running too steep. However, as I said above, I think I need to do an intentionally steep shave, and an intentionally shallow shave, and assess not just the initial result, but the time till next shave as well.

It's far too early for me to be drawing any conclusions, until I find what handling best aligns that razor with my skin/beard. Usually it's three or four shaves for me to get familiar with a new razor, but I might need to let my face rest a days or so between shaves. I reckon by the midle to end of next week, I'll have a better appreciation for it.

Rather than just let my thoughts lurk in here, I'll probably start another thread in the Double Edge forum.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
However, as I said above, I think I need to do an intentionally steep shave, and an intentionally shallow shave, and assess not just the initial result, but the time till next shave as well.

Theres enough room between the two extremes for everyone to find their angle.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Today's shave was less than pleasant, not through anything I did today, but largely due to the shaving bumps I was rewarded with after yesterday's shave. I very rarely suffer shaving bumps with any other razor (not just DE), but my neck certainly had several speed bumps before I lathered up today. I was initially tempted to skip today altogether, but decided not to, as 48hr growth shaves differently than 24 hour growth for me, and I wanted my next Fatip shave to be as close to a regular shave as possible.

So today, with the usual brush, soap, and lather, I intentionally didn't aim to go for a perfect finish. A North to South pass, a South to North pass, and a little touch up of areas that were less than CCS after pass two.

I shaved the right side of my face as steeply as possible, and the left side of my face as shallow as possible. I was shocked to discover that due to my spinal issues, and inability to tilt my head right back, the shallowest use under the jaw on the right side, actually had the end of the handle touching my neck in a Southbound pass, and still cutting at or very near skin level. Following the shave, I used alum, followed by the cheapo Forest Fresh aftershave.

The steeper angle was less comfortable during the shave itself, but resulted in less alum and aftershave tingle, despite around the same closeness of finish. If both sides of the face respond similarly over the next 24 hours, I will repeat this in my next shave. If one side of my face feels more comfortable than the other over before tomorrow's shave, then I will have a full shave with whichever gave the most comfortable (or least uncomfortable) regrowth period.

I am so far less than enamoured with this razor, but then I have been gingerly shaving over shaving bumps today, which is obviously going to colour my judgement. This is a very premature statement to make, but I feel the need to make it anyway; I so far feel absolutely no benefit over my usual shaves, be they DE, straight, or shavette, from this Fatip Grande. While I do not yet feel competent in the open razor format, yesterday's shave was the first DE shave that was a "lesser shave" than what I get with a straight or shavette.

I probably have more fingers and toes than open razor shaves under my belt, and have been using double edge razors for 25+ years, and yet get a better shave with a Dovo shavette than a Fatip Grande...

I will persevere. My opinions may change.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
I will persevere. My opinions may change.

I think you'll need to use it differently than you've been shaving for the last 25 years to get the most from it Al. Fatips are unlike any other DE I've used, R41 included which I'd bet you'd like even less.

Keep hunting the angle, you'll get there.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
I think you'll need to use it differently than you've been shaving for the last 25 years to get the most from it Al. Fatips are unlike any other DE I've used, R41 included which I'd bet you'd like even less.

Keep hunting the angle, you'll get there.

There are currently two questions in my mind with this razor.

A) Can I get a shave of the quality that I want from this razor?

B) Would I want to?

So far, no traditional razor that I've tried has totally confounded me in being able to get a satisfactory shave from it. I don't fully count the Empire in that, as I didn't use the original blades, or attempt to use it more than once.

But even if the answer to Question A is yes, there would need to be some advantage or benefit in using the Grande to make me answer yes to Question B. At the very least, it has to be enjoyable. I am fully determined to be able to answer yes to the first question, but am highly sceptical of whether I'll be able to answer yes to the second.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
A) Can I get a shave of the quality that I want from this razor?

B) Would I want to?

A) Yes.
B) Perhaps not, but once you've accomplished A, you might. :)

With that much blade exposure angle is paramount. If your whiskers are even harder to cut than mine are, blade exposure of that amount I can see being a detriment and only compounded if the critical angle isnt met.

Thatss why I like my Brit clone so much. It has little blade exposure so it sacrifices efficiency, but it is so smooth and comfortable its really hard to beat. Of all my razors DE and SE, my most comfortable and easy on my skin are my Brit clone and my MMOC. My Grande is right up there but to get that level of comfort, with the same level of shave, requires focus I dont need with the other two.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
A) Yes.
B) Perhaps not, but once you've accomplished A, you might. :)

With that much blade exposure angle is paramount. If your whiskers are even harder to cut than mine are, blade exposure of that amount I can see being a detriment and only compounded if the critical angle isnt met.

Thatss why I like my Brit clone so much. It has little blade exposure so it sacrifices efficiency, but it is so smooth and comfortable its really hard to beat. Of all my razors DE and SE, my most comfortable and easy on my skin are my Brit clone and my MMOC. My Grande is right up there but to get that level of comfort, with the same level of shave, requires focus I dont need with the other two.

From that perspective, my Merkur 985 which clamps the same as the Fatip, but with less blade exposure, would be the more superior razor.

However, I don't think my whiskers are necessarily any harder to cut than yours. Our skin may differ. Our techniques and growth patterns certainly do. I have no swirls to speak of, but I think the frizzy nature of my beard affects the consistency of the beard map. Even with folicle apertures still being one way or another from the hair root, hair doesn't wait till it leaves the folicle to frizz, which is why some folks suffer ingrowns more than others.

My challenge areas aren't my lips and chin like Jim, or either side of the Adams apple like you, but under the jawline on the right, and below the ear on the left. In these areas the growth is at its most erratic, and there is no single, clear and defining ATG direction.

Other thoughts have crossed my mind as well, and I'm still considering their relevance, such as the radiused nose of the Fatip compared to the shelved facade of the Jagger. For my beard and skin, the Jagger is either used right or wrong, and this can be discerned easier from the way it's cutting to the variable angle of the Grande, which may give an angle thats right for the beard but wrong for the skin. That makes the Fatip easier to get wrong, and therefore easier to get a bad shave, and the Jagger easier to get a good shave.

This is all incomplete speculation though, and I'm only two shaves in after all. However, if there was going to be any aspects of the Fatip that were superior in terms of the shaves I'm likely to see in future, I would have thought I'd have seem a glimpse of it by now, despite the fresh challenges that it presents. I'm not yet seeing any signs of "it will all be worth it, because..."

There seems to be far more challenge, but no reward at the end of it, and I don't think that's just confirmation bias. I'm very grateful to Doug @Somerled for giving me the opportunity to try it, but so far all my suspicions and reasons for not wanting to buy one, are being fully justified. At the current rate, I reckon I'll master it (so far as I can), then let it go.

On a side note, another way that the 985 is superior (for me) is the breadth of the peripheral teeth of the open comb. They're about 50% wider on the Grande. This makes the Grande more awkward to tidy up the width of a goatee for example. With the 985, you can either run at it square on, or run along the edge hooking in one or two teeth, whereas the Grande only really works square on as the outer teeth are too fat to run down the edge properly, making it harder for the user to align all those individual square on cuts. I don't know if that translates well into words.

As I say, there is much frustration, but I'm determined to overcome it for reasons of personal pride, but I'm really not seeing any benefits to it beyond that. It just seems to make everything more difficult, with a significantly higher price to pay if you get it wrong, and no discernable prize for getting it right.
 
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Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
From that perspective, my Merkur 985 which clamps the same as the Fatip, but with less blade exposure, would be the more superior razor.

That comes down to the one using it. Comfort and efficiency are two sides of the same coin. To gain in one area you may have to sacrifice the other. With the Fatip OC head thats a very fine balance point because it has so much blade exposure.

My challenge areas aren't my lips and chin like Jim, or either side of the Adams apple like you, but under the jawline on the right, and below the ear on the left. In these areas the growth is at its most erratic, and there is no single, clear and defining ATG direction.

One of my most difficult areas to BBS is actually my left side jawline. Using my Grande, the only way I can BBS it is with a steep angle and 45° up and down with just the right amount of pressure and speed of stroke. If I shave too quickly, the hairs will roll over and not be cut.

I've noticed using the MMOC and the far more rigid SE blade, my left side jawline is a lot easier to BBS. I still need the same directions, but fewer strokes.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
That comes down to the one using it. Comfort and efficiency are two sides of the same coin. To gain in one area you may have to sacrifice the other.

... or a lack of efficiency could lead ti discomfort. I get that. However, I'm not seeing any improvement in efficiency, and I think I might not be getting this across properly. If there was an improved efficiency from this blade rigidity or blade exposure, then there would potentially be a prize to be won. Yet steep or shallow, the Grande takes me the same passes and touch ups as the supposedly less efficient Jagger, its just harder to use and aggravates the skin more. I'm genuinely not (yet) seeing any advantage, bonus, superiority, call it what you will, reason to reach for it, with the Grande. No improved efficiency or smootheness. No elimination of chatter, as I don't go direct ATG. Maybe the prize is being illusive, or maybe there isn't one for me, I don't know yet. All I know is that so far, I'm getting whacked with a stick with no carrot tied to it :D
 

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
Yet steep or shallow, the Grande takes me the same passes and touch ups as the supposedly less efficient Jagger, its just harder to use and aggravates the skin more. I'm genuinely not (yet) seeing any advantage, bonus, superiority, call it what you will, reason to reach for it, with the Grande.

Thats because you're using both razors with the same hover type technique and only the very edge of the blade is actually touching your skin.

You're not shaving with the razor per se, you're shaving more with only the blade. I shave with both.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Thats because you're using both razors with the same hover type technique and only the very edge of the blade is actually touching your skin.

You're not shaving with the razor per se, you're shaving more with only the blade. I shave with both.

Sorry Mike, that makes no sense to me. Are you telling me that to feel any benefit from this razor that already aggravates my skin, that I need to start applying pressure? No thanks, mate. :D 2018 has been a blood free year for me so far, and I'd like to keep it that way. ;)

In this last shave, I rode the cap on one side of my face, and the comb on the other. Occasionally the friction from the chrome cap overcame the lubrication of the lather, and the skin bunched up a bit, which turns the skin ahead steep again. I backed off, smeared the lather, and went again. I cannot have gone any steeper or shallower in this shave without applying pressure, which I fundamentally disagree with and don't have to do with other razors, or without the blade lifting off and tugging at the root.

I understand that you hafe to plunge the cap or comb into your face for certain razors to give YOU the results that YOU need from them, but not everyone else has to do that. If I were to do that, I am pretty confident the results would be far worse than I am currently getting. And there would still be no prize.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Well, i've just been to the bathroom, and had a bit of an inspection.

Yesterday's shaving irritation is starting to subside, so not chasing perfection paid off for me today. As regards today's shave, the "shallow" side feels more comfortable than the "steep" side (sorry @Cal :D )

I was planning on chasing a closer finish tomorrow, but I think I'll be dropping the steeper approach, and trying to get a closer finish with a shallow attack angle. If this causes turmoil again, I will give my face chance to calm back down, and try it one last time with Palmolive for a more "protective" (I hate that term) lather. I don't really see why that would make much difference when the same blade works fine in the craft soap lather when used in a different holder, but it may be worth a try.

I'm not going to try any face plunging, buffing, J-hooking, opposing curve cross hatching, stand on one leg while singing The Birdie Song type tricks, but I will strive to give this razor a fair chance to shine and show its merits. While I don't know the razor well, I do know my face well, and won't try anything too far removed from what I know works for me though.

I have no doubt that like every other shaving product on the planet, some people will benefit from this more than others, but even if I do end up passing this along, I would like to feel some form of understanding of how it might benefit someone else more.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Face felt calm when I woke today, though the shallow side from yesterday's shave did still feel slightly better. Time to go for a full three pass shave with shallow angle.

This was certainly my best shave with the Grande so far, and it seems that running very shallow with a featherlight touch works best with my face. It was a slower shave than usual, as I can't shave with carefree abandon like I might with my other DEs. I think I actually ran a little too shallow in some areas, as my problem zones needed a fair bit of touch up work to get them smooth, but we got there in the end.

No alum today, just straight for the aftershave, which brought forth some expletives. A couple of areas do feel a little tender to the touch, despite the featherlight touch during the shave, so I may need to add a little balm later. However, the tenderness could in fact be residual damage from that first shave, where compared to the shallow angle I was running the razor at today, I was initially far too steep.

Hopefully this shave will be the one that answers Yes to the question of whether I can get a good shave with the razor. As to the question of whether I'd want to, I'm still seeing no advantage to choosing this over my other DE razors. Slower to use, harder work to get the usual shave standards, higher risk of skin damage, and yet no quicker, smoother or more comfortable than my other DE razors.

Now we wait to see how the skin reacts over the next 24 hours.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Now we wait to see how the skin reacts over the next 24 hours.

Two hours later, no burn, no soreness, no balm needed. I think I cracked it with that last shave.

I am pleased that I got there with the usual lather, as not being able to conquer this razor with my usual craft soap, would have been admitting defeat on some of my lather principles. I just needed to keep dipping the razor to keep the polished chrome cap wet.

Today's shave puts the shave quality of the Grande back in front of what I can currently achieve with a shavette, but not ahead of other DE razors. I can achieve this level of shave with every other DE I own, and with most of them, I can achieve it quicker, purely because I can shave faster with confidence and not trepidation. Maybe that's why I'm not seeing any benefit from this razor. I simply do not need that level of aggression to get a good shave, and can hit the shaves I want with milder razors that might confound other shavers, be it due to handling or simply beard compatibility.

And here's the crunch - two hours later, if I press on ATG, I can already feel stubble in a couple of areas that I knew were smooth post shave. Could I get a closer, longer lasting shave? I don't think I want to, as I don't want the skin damage as I know this razor can give. Comfort is more important to me than closeness, and I don't feel the confidence in this razor to chase the shave any further.

This is a perfectly acceptable shave for everything other than candlelit dinner, when I might want my face to still feel smooth to softer hands a few hours later. So if a Grande was all I had, I could probably make it work for me. But a Grande is not all I have, and nothing about it makes me want to reach for it instead of anything else.

Huge thanks again to Doug for letting me try it, but this razor is proving to be more liability than asset for me. I may have another shave or two with it, but I can't see it being a permanent resident here.
 
Huge thanks again to Doug for letting me try it, but this razor is proving to be more liability than asset for me. I may have another shave or two with it, but I can't see it being a permanent resident here.

At least your giving it more of a try than I did.
After one shave I knew this was not a razor I was going to live with, and stopped there and then.

Hopefully you'll pass it on to someone else who may (or may not) get some benefit from it.
If thats what you decide to do - it's your razor now, not mine. :001_smile
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
At least your giving it more of a try than I did.
After one shave I knew this was not a razor I was going to live with, and stopped there and then.

Hopefully you'll pass it on to someone else who may (or may not) get some benefit from it.
If thats what you decide to do - it's your razor now, not mine. :001_smile

Thanks Doug. Yes, it looks like a PIF is in order soon. I planned to do one in the New Year anyway, so this razor will probably be part of that. It's clear that there are people out there who benefit from this razor, and also people who do not. Hopefully the next owner will be one of the people who do.

Just goes to show once again, that there is no winning formula that works for everyone. I can however now see why people might like a Polsilver in this razor. The blade was pathetic in a mild razor, and barely tolerable in a slightly more aggressive one. The Fatip's aggression would elevate it to working as a blade should, while the underperforming Polsilver tones down the viciousness of the Grande. I wonder, have I got one left...?

Rendering a deficient blade usable, isn't enough win for me though. Maybe I'll use it again tomorrow, or maybe I won't. However when it does leave the bathroom and I put something else in (I only tend to keep one in there at any time), it most likely won't be going back in there again.

Thanks again for the chance to try it out :thumbup:
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Finally scented the homebrew. I was going to split it up into little trial batches, but the empty vape juice bottles I was planning on using are a real swine to wash out. I ended up just adding essential oils direct to the main bottle, which is less than 100mmm anyway.

The aim was making it a little less clinical in use, rather than using it to wear a scent, although it seems to have a little more staying power than I expected. It's a good job those little bottles didn't work out, as a drop or two of essential oil would have been too much.

I'll leave it overnight to stew, and give it a proper test tomorrow.
 
Hello there! You have articulated very well your experiences with the Grande. Nicely done. I had very similar experiences and decided it was time to move on. Other razors worked as well and I could easily use them. And I know that some of my preferred razors are not the best for others' faces. What I am thankful for is that we are able to find and try to our heart's content, due to the magic of the internet.
Eric

- Karve Diem, M. BOSC
 

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
The Fatip's aggression would elevate it to working as a blade should, while the underperforming Polsilver tones down the viciousness of the Grande. I wonder, have I got one left...?

Ohhhhhh, I'm not sure thats a wise choice Al lol.

Polsilvers are damn sharp. They may seem underwhelming in a milder razor, but the Grande may give it a lot more life than you're expecting.

If I want to shave directly ATG at well past 50 hours growth with a DE theres one razor and blade combination I'd reach for, a Polsilver in my Grande. I wouldnt even hesitate at 75+ hours growth.
 
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