There were several postings lately by membres of this forum claiming that they get good honing results by using coticules without diluting slurry. This puzzles me since, according to www.coticule.be, diluting is necessary during the honing process to counter the detrimental effect that slurry has on the edge. Who has used this method with satisfactory results and would care to share his experiences?
The "Undilucot Method"
- Thread starter Thomas Martin
- Start date
I was the one who originally brought this up on artisanshaving last week.
Ive been using a 2% milk like slurry without dilution.
The methid is hone with LIGHT x strokes on the slurry...if it thickens or starts to dry add a drop of water to keep it wet. After every 40 strokes or so I refresh the slurry by dunking the slurry stone in water and rubbing it on the coticule in the old dirty slurry, which breaks down the mica in the coticule.
The idea is the mica is broken down and by freshing slurry you keep sharp garnets on the stone without using the older dulled garnets.
Here is the thread. I have had members contact me about their success with this method. Bascially I am doing what Liam does.
http://www.artisanshaving.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1287
The shave is effortless but much smoother than water finishing. The bevel is very hazy but not dull if the garnets are rereleased properly.
Ive been using a 2% milk like slurry without dilution.
The methid is hone with LIGHT x strokes on the slurry...if it thickens or starts to dry add a drop of water to keep it wet. After every 40 strokes or so I refresh the slurry by dunking the slurry stone in water and rubbing it on the coticule in the old dirty slurry, which breaks down the mica in the coticule.
The idea is the mica is broken down and by freshing slurry you keep sharp garnets on the stone without using the older dulled garnets.
Here is the thread. I have had members contact me about their success with this method. Bascially I am doing what Liam does.
http://www.artisanshaving.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1287
The shave is effortless but much smoother than water finishing. The bevel is very hazy but not dull if the garnets are rereleased properly.
Last edited:
Personally I do two major steps. I hone with slurry to set a bevel, then I remove the slurry to finish. The finishing stages are a little more complicated than that, and involve standing on one leg while holding my tongue a certain way, but basically I hone in two steps.
- Thread starter
- #4
I definitely have to try that method. What do you do when you're touching up a blade, if you do it with a coti. Do you do it with slurry too or just with water?
I don't use slurry.... Hone on water... Finish with oil...
Usually water but this is new for me and I think light slurry would work fine.
I used the "slurry refresh" (or whatever we're calling it) method the other day with good results. I did 40-50 x strokes then, instead of diluting, I refreshed the slurry, and repeated this 3-4x. I then finished on skim milk slurry & got a HHT2 straight off the stone, HHT4 after stropping. The shave was nice & smooth, so IMO this method works well!
Just to second Nicks remarks, I have been using the slurry refresh method for the past several days. Since using the coticule for over a year, and trying many different methods, I have never seen more consistent, or smooth edges ever. I have been getting the best shaves of my life since trying this. The shave is unparalled in smoothness, close and the most gentle you will find. My face feels like I never shaved when I am finished with a 3 pass, from an edge honed using this method.
Another thing that has convinced me are two stones I have that would hardly ever yield results. Using the slurry like Nick describes I was able to get an excellent edge in the least ammount of time. As far as time is concerned, each razor and stone differ so when a blade is done it is done, but this has worked on every stone I have tried so far. La Veinette, La Petite Blanche, La Dressante and La Grise.
These have been my personal observations, and unless it is absolutly necessary, I will never finish on water again.
Last edited:
Lets take this out of context....... Jon's gonna get banned, Jon's gonna get banned, Jon's gonna get banned, Jon's gonna get banned, Jon's gonna get banned, Jon's gonna get banned!!!!
Sorry, I'm fed up at work and can't wait to leave.... go on ask me why?
Well I'll tell you. I've located Alladin's Cave - on the way home tonight I'm picking up 25 straights, two paddle strops, two vintage cotis, another vintage stone for..... 50 Euro dollars (that's about 65 - 70 bucks!!!!! Lets hope the fella is good to his word. In any case the photos look nice, the worst that could happen in the industrial park that I'm being lured in to is that he steals my wallet and I walk funny for a few days - the best, we'll see.....
I'm so excited, and I just can't hide it, I know I know I know I know I know I want you, I want you.
- Thread starter
- #10
I'm amazed. This more or less contradicts everything that the coticule theory consists of (see www.coticule.be) where the diluting is described as a conditio sine qua non to achieve a high level of keeness. Did they get it all wrong over there?
Not at all. Even after using the slurry like Nick and I do, you can still do some laps on water, oil or whatever you desire. A water finish, for me anyway, is a bit harsh on my face. I have had zero irritation using slurry, but with water I am much more prone to having a spot or two of irritation, especially on my jawline below my right ear, and on small spot under my chin. Those spots are notirous for festering after a shave.
You must understand that I, or Nick, are in no way bashing dilucot or unicot. Many a razor has been successfully honed using those methods. The reason Nick even tried this in the firstplace is because of the video of Liam ( A Barber at the Waldorf Saloon in Ireland). He was curious as to how he was getting a smooth comfortable edge using just slurry. From what I have heard, Liam's shaves are legendary, and smooth as butter.
The strop is as key to this method as any other. I stopped holding my strop so tight, and put a little slack in it. It must be a slight curve in the strop to work correctly though. If your strop will not do that, then proceed as usual. Liam himself even stated in an interview that the key to getting that final edge is his stropping.
So please to not take this as a flame or disregard of the other methods. Bart and some of the others have even been experimenting with this as well.
- Thread starter
- #12
I wasn't accusing anyone of bashing a method nor did I imply that Dilucot and Unicot would not work. What I said is that the theory behind these methods is false. It is based on the hypothesis that slurry has a dulling effect on the edge and that you cannot get keeness unless you dilute something you, and others, seem to have proven wrong.
Last edited:
Fruitcake...
Last edited:
I have honed with slurry. I have honed water only. I find some coticules you can finish water only quite well, but others will actually lose keenness water only for whatever reason. I believe they don't erode fast enough and become clogged with swarf and those are the coticules I have that work well with a slight bit of slurry to keep the cutting and polishing balanced. At a minimum they work best if cleaned during finishing.
I tried this method after watching Liam's video over and over in amazement on the edge he received from just slurry. I have asked him myself on this method, he said it is all he does, he also has an old english stone he sometimes may use. He said the condition of the razor will judge how many times to raise milk on the stone.
I also know of people who have gotten shaves from Liam and say the edges on his razors are truly smooth and sharp, with complaints to be had at all and the shaves were great (No oil, no water...).
Another reason I was curious about this method was because of new photos coming out of Garnets up close. The photos show Mica breaking down in the slurry as we hone on the slurry but the garnets also become chipped and more rounded as they are worked. I wanted to see if they would cut more and more if they were constantly rereleased with a slurry stone as you progressed in the process.
Howard at Theperfectedge, who also has sold coticules for years said many times on SRP all he needs is slurry on a coticule to get an edge for a razor, now I know how.
Thicker or drier slurry still degrades the edge however, and you must be careful to keep things wet enough.
I am happy some of you have tried this and enjoyed the results, that makes me happy. I have tried dilucot and unicot many times, but dilucot always was hit or miss for me which is another reason I tried this.
I also know of people who have gotten shaves from Liam and say the edges on his razors are truly smooth and sharp, with complaints to be had at all and the shaves were great (No oil, no water...).
Another reason I was curious about this method was because of new photos coming out of Garnets up close. The photos show Mica breaking down in the slurry as we hone on the slurry but the garnets also become chipped and more rounded as they are worked. I wanted to see if they would cut more and more if they were constantly rereleased with a slurry stone as you progressed in the process.
Howard at Theperfectedge, who also has sold coticules for years said many times on SRP all he needs is slurry on a coticule to get an edge for a razor, now I know how.
Thicker or drier slurry still degrades the edge however, and you must be careful to keep things wet enough.
I am happy some of you have tried this and enjoyed the results, that makes me happy. I have tried dilucot and unicot many times, but dilucot always was hit or miss for me which is another reason I tried this.
Last edited:
Jon & Nick,
Have you guys had any differing experiences with hard vs. soft stones? I tried the "slurryfresh" method on my La Grise which is somewhat of a soft(ish) stone and it worked well. I was just wondering how this method would work on my fast Dressante (haven't tried it yet obv.)...Does it work just as well, or do you have to do anything different?
Have you guys had any differing experiences with hard vs. soft stones? I tried the "slurryfresh" method on my La Grise which is somewhat of a soft(ish) stone and it worked well. I was just wondering how this method would work on my fast Dressante (haven't tried it yet obv.)...Does it work just as well, or do you have to do anything different?
I use my Select La Dressante the most and it works fine. It's pale yellow with manganese lines on the surface, no complaints.
I honestly think the difference in hardness on recent coticules is exagarrated.
I honestly think the difference in hardness on recent coticules is exagarrated.
- Thread starter
- #18
Have you tried with a BBW?
Very cool idea guys. Can't wait to try this myself.
I no longer own one. I used to have an 8x3" one but I sold it as it was very slow. Interesting idea to try though.
Similar threads
