I agree. I hope it wasn’t interpreted that I thought corned beef with Swiss and mustard was a Reuben. That’s not what I meant. It is just the way I most often eat corned beef.
THE THIN BLUE SMOKE THREAD XI
- Thread starter Jim
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Sorry if I caused any confusion.
Interesting question as to what makes a sandwich a "Reuben." There are references to truly Kosher delis serving Reuben that do not contain cheese, which makes sense to me. Meat and cheese together cannot be Kosher. I am not even sure how it comes out to be "Kosher-style." The Wikipedia article says a Reuben is corned beef, rye, Russian dressing, Swiss cheese, and kraut, grilled. Although a prototype of that page said thousand island or Russian and rye or pumpernickel. The in-place Wikipedia page, however, also describes a "Rachel" as substituting pastrami for cb and slaw for kraut, which to me is incorrect. To me a Rachel is turkey substituted for the cb, although other sources suggest the cb substitution can be pastrami or turkey and have either kraut or slaw. At least one source suggests the "original" Reuben was on pumpernickel instead of rye and suggests that thousand island is a "modern" substitution for Russian. Growing up, my Mother made Reubens on pumpernickel with mustard and heated them in the oven rather than grilling them. I am not sure how she came on that combination, but I suspect she thought she was being traditional.
In Baltimore, I think they would call a corned beef (or, perhaps, pastrami) with slaw and thousand island or Russian dressing a "cloak and dagger," reserving Reuben for sandwiches with kraut.
If someone had argued to me that the meat in a Reuben could be either cb or pastrami, I might have bought into that concept. I would think if one were going to go with pumpernickel, pastrami would stand up better flavor-wise.
I think Montreal smoked meat would do, too.
Interesting question as to what makes a sandwich a "Reuben." There are references to truly Kosher delis serving Reuben that do not contain cheese, which makes sense to me. Meat and cheese together cannot be Kosher. I am not even sure how it comes out to be "Kosher-style." The Wikipedia article says a Reuben is corned beef, rye, Russian dressing, Swiss cheese, and kraut, grilled. Although a prototype of that page said thousand island or Russian and rye or pumpernickel. The in-place Wikipedia page, however, also describes a "Rachel" as substituting pastrami for cb and slaw for kraut, which to me is incorrect. To me a Rachel is turkey substituted for the cb, although other sources suggest the cb substitution can be pastrami or turkey and have either kraut or slaw. At least one source suggests the "original" Reuben was on pumpernickel instead of rye and suggests that thousand island is a "modern" substitution for Russian. Growing up, my Mother made Reubens on pumpernickel with mustard and heated them in the oven rather than grilling them. I am not sure how she came on that combination, but I suspect she thought she was being traditional.
In Baltimore, I think they would call a corned beef (or, perhaps, pastrami) with slaw and thousand island or Russian dressing a "cloak and dagger," reserving Reuben for sandwiches with kraut.
If someone had argued to me that the meat in a Reuben could be either cb or pastrami, I might have bought into that concept. I would think if one were going to go with pumpernickel, pastrami would stand up better flavor-wise.
I think Montreal smoked meat would do, too.
Thanks Doc. Its actually been used in some pretty weird combos so far.
Most recent was a butternut squash sauce with orechietti, Gorgonzola, and the pork with asparagus on the side.
Pumpernickel is my favorite bread. And yeah- meat and cheese together is not kosher.
Me too. And what cut of pork was that? It looks FANTASTIC but it almost looks like a huge pork chop! I want that.
I don't know what exactly makes something "Kosher" by definition but let me tell you the pulled pork above that Derek made looks SUPER kosher in my view. Salt is Kosher. I do know that much.
Picnic shoulder. You can usually find this or Boston butt at the grocery store.
Okay thanks. I only have tried the boston butt part of the high shoulder. Maybe next time I'll get adventurous. Do you just smoke it and (pull or chop it) the exact same way?
Interesting linguistic point, actually. I do not seem to be able to find it on-line with a few searches, but I think one can "kosher" meat or poultry by salting it, essentially to draw out the the blood, but to also render it arguably better prepared for cooking, as in brining it, which America's Test Kitchen used to really like to do with poultry. But that results in "koshered" meat or poultry not in "kosher" meat or poultry. (There does not seem to be a requirement that kosher be capitalized.) "Kosher" salt, should probably really be "koshering" salt--that is, salt well-designed for koshering.
Food that is "kosher" has to be prepared under strict, arguably complex Jewish requirements under the supervision of by folks qualified/authorized to do so. Moreover, certain foods are inherently not kosher, such as pork and shellfish. Certain foods such as meat and dairy may be kosher on their own, but cannot be eaten together or even seriatim but one keeping kosher. Specific requirements of kosher can vary depending upon time, such as "kosher for passover." To me, kosher requirements have had a hand in creating some of the finest of foods--corned beef, Nova, deli tongue, chopped liver, etc.
So, a real kosher deii should not even have any dairy on the premises. And, as I said, I am not even sure how Kosher-style seemed to end up with so much cheese. I am grateful for all of it though.
"Kosher" has also come to mean "legit" and "appropriate" too, of course, which is really a good use of the word.
Ah, the Reuben sandwich. When I worked in Newark NJ we would frequent a deli called Hobby's. They made some incredible sandwiches. Here is a link to their menu. My favorite of them all was the #5 which consisted of pastrami, corned beef, coleslaw, and Russian dressing.
Their Reuben sandwiches were so large they served them open-faced.
Their Reuben sandwiches were so large they served them open-faced.
I never understood why some places pile so much meat on. When it becomes impossible to hold it and bite it, it is no longer a sandwich.Ah, the Reuben sandwich. When I worked in Newark NJ we would frequent a deli called Hobby's. They made some incredible sandwiches. Here is a link to their menu. My favorite of them all was the #5 which consisted of pastrami, corned beef, coleslaw, and Russian dressing.
Their Reuben sandwiches were so large they served them open-faced.
I love everything about that menu. I love that not only the corned beef but the tongue are cured in-house. I love that they are selling soup by the "bucket."
I notice that their "Classic Reuben" is offered with a choice of corned beef, pastrami, or turkey.
I notice that their "Classic Reuben" is offered with a choice of corned beef, pastrami, or turkey.
What a great post. This is kind of what I was thinking and you've put it into words much better than I could ever have. Regardless, the food is most definitely legit. Cloven hoof....or salted to the point where that just doesn't matter anymore. +Rep
I hear what you're saying OC. In Chicago, in South Loop area there is a famous old timey place called "Manny's" that is the Chicago equivalent (or better!!) than Katz's in NY. They stack so much meat on the sandwich that I was like.. this is ridiculous. However.. I just pulled a lot out and ate the sandwich as I liked, then ate the rest with the slaw.
Personally I don't need THAT much piled on, but it certainly justifies their prices. A lot of people (youtubers) say, "what, a $22 dollar sandwich?" But honestly corned beef is pricey and I think it's fair.
These are St. Louis rubbed down with a Habanero-Orange rub. Finished with a Maull’s sauce glaze. Big pot of beans on the side. Life can be good....
Gorgeous
If the weather holds I'm smoking a brisket, ribs, Boston butt and sausage. I've got a brisket point so I'm thinkin' the whole thang needs to be burnt ends. Yee Haw!!
It's on
Doesn’t get any better!!
