The strange hierarchy of vintage Pike coticules

[Herrenberg]

No doubt I am not the only one who has won something in an online action, and become disillusioned with it after it arrived. It happened to me with a couple of old razors with less-than-perfect pictures, that turned out to be a mess. I did not expect it to happen this time, though.

I bid on, and won, a Pike Fine Coticule. I was very pleased. All right! I've got the legendary Pike Company's pick for a fine-grained coticule! Perfect for razors, no doubt. It even says razor on the package. Carefully selected, no less. Clearly I've got the Pike Company's best razor coticule here.

Then, poking around the Web, I came across this picture:

Oh. Superfine, huh? Well I guess my Fine Pike is just garbage, then. It has lived in the back of the drawer ever since I set eyes on that picture. Of course I will take it out and try it at some point, but it needs to spend some time in durance vile.

Of course my plan was to take the L, and immediately start searching out a superfine Pike Coticule. But the plot thickens, because I have just taken delivery of this:

So maybe Extra Choice beats Superfine? I mean, it seems as though it ought to, but who knows. And I can't help wondering what other places there might be in this strange hierarchy. Extra Extra Choice? Extra Choice Superfine? Ultrafine? The sky is the limit, in my imagination.

Anyone know the facts of the Pike Coticule hierarchy?

 

[Alum of Potash]

Looks like the marketing hype goes back a long way. Could "fine" be the current "standard"? Could "extra-fine" be the current "selected"? Could "extra-choice" be "selected plus"? And so on. It would be nice to have some shots of the stones next to their boxes.

 

[Legion]

Here you go.

Belgian, fine, superfine, extra choice, Barbers special, Old rock.

While the names are probably an indication of quality, they could also be describing different veins, which have different honing properties.

 

[Herrenberg]

Stone pictures:

 

[Loner16]

There's an old saying..

"Call me anything you want, just don't call me late for dinner."

Beauty is as beauty does. It really doesn't matter what is on the box, or the label. It how the steel reacts to the stone. That's all that matters!

Whatever they call them, it looks as though you've got some nice stones there!

 

[Frank Shaves]

This same question came up in 2014:

Pike Belgian Hones

Does anyone have any info on the various grade names that Pike gave their Belgian razor hones? PeriodWoodworker has a video about them here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzW1akMq3tQ&list=UUjyeTWN07JVQBYSPHHmhCcQ he says he's not sure what they mean. It looks like there were 1/2 fine, fine...

www.badgerandblade.com

Please let us know how the new stone is.

 

[Empire straights]

There's an old saying..

"Call me anything you want, just don't call me late for dinner."

Beauty is as beauty does. It really doesn't matter what is on the box, or the label. It how the steel reacts to the stone. That's all that matters!

Whatever they call them, it looks as though you've got some nice stones there!

I'm going to play necromancer and say, this is the utmost truth and all that matters. That being said I think one of my old rock coticule was actually an extra fine(the one with the wine color bbw in pretty sure is la Lorraine) pike. I printout lapped the stamp off of it but I didn't plan on selling it anyway.

 

[Gamma]

I know people don't like hearing it, but the fact remains....
Judge each stone on it's own merits. Labels, names, veins, stamps, etc.... all that and more means very little at the end of the day. What the stone does in your hands is what it is.

Take Old Rock stones, a large number were from La Vienette, but compare one to a La V sold by Ardennes 5-6 years ago, then compare to a more recent La V.
I have done this and they're all different stones. Where two Old Rock stones might be similar, they are waaay different than the other options.

With Pike, I have had a few labeled with 'quality' grades. I just chalked it up to advertising and marketing ploys.
There are other labels too - some mention speed if I remember correctly, and some with fractional numbers or something along those lines.
Barbers usually preferred faster stones over slower and possibly finer... so remember who they are marketing to.

A good stone is a good stone. A label makes a good stone prettier but not better.
I am pretty sure most Pike Cotis were good stones....

 

[Empire straights]

I know people don't like hearing it, but the fact remains....
Judge each stone on it's own merits. Labels, names, veins, stamps, etc.... all that and more means very little at the end of the day. What the stone does in your hands is what it is.

Take Old Rock stones, a large number were from La Vienette, but compare one to a La V sold by Ardennes 5-6 years ago, then compare to a more recent La V.
I have done this and they're all different stones. Where two Old Rock stones might be similar, they are waaay different than the other options.

With Pike, I have had a few labeled with 'quality' grades. I just chalked it up to advertising and marketing ploys.
There are other labels too - some mention speed if I remember correctly, and some with fractional numbers or something along those lines.
Barbers usually preferred faster stones over slower and possibly finer... so remember who they are marketing to.

A good stone is a good stone. A label makes a good stone prettier but not better.
I am pretty sure most Pike Cotis were good stones....

I couldn't make out the stamp, I lapped it off within 5 minutes of unboxing it. I had no intention of ever selling it. I'm still not convinced it was a pike but kinda looks like it. It's a very good stone and is a glued combo, the bbw is wine colored and probably a la Lorraine if I had to guess(not that it matters, it's one of my favorite too shave off of). It leaves a lg thuringian feel as far as shaves go, really keen. I've never cared what they were called outside knowing their name makes it easier to buy more. Im not really a collector or reseller, I've given away several but not sold any, and every stone I have has a job It's used for. It's nice to have pretty stones and all but I'd get rid of a pretty one that's near useless to keep one that looks like an actual brick if it functions really well. Utility is all that really matters.

 

[kcb5150]

I take these things with a grain of salt... They are probably based on any blanket idea about any given vein they were extracting, if anything... The stamps on the sides of french hones get even goofier.

 

[SliceOfLife]

There is a price list out there with the prices on it... so the full hierarchy is known. I don't have it on hand, but it shouldn't be too hard to find. I ran into it a dozen times last week when searching for Pike Coticule labels.

I've owned choice and extra choice stamped pikes and they were both nice coticules but not game-changing. Also had an "Old Hickory" that wasn't pike labeled... and at least one of the "Barbers", think it was a Pet... maybe Gem.

Never had a definite Salm in my hands but more guys I know who have say they're fine but not the end all be all than guys who say otherwise.

I think mostly the label fever starts with guys selling stones and is maintained by guys with HAD. Best Coti's I've owned are usually rough cuts and very old.

 

[kcb5150]

Yeah, I have my own visual and color tells I go by and don't care much about boxes or labels in general.

 

[Empire straights]

Yeah, I have my own visual and color tells I go by and don't care much about boxes or labels in general.

That's how I do it too. I'm not worried about labels either and there are definite characteristics that generally only really old coticules have and that's what I look for.

 

[David]

I've owned choice and extra choice stamped pikes and they were both nice coticules but not game-changing. Also had an "Old Hickory" that wasn't pike labeled... and at least one of the "Barbers", think it was a Pet... maybe Gem.

The barbers pets (from my small sample size of two) are really good stones. I had one and sold it and immediately regretted it and lucked up and got another one. Eric has one as well and said it’s great. I’ve only seen 4-5 but they all have a similar look.