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The rigidity of the blade(DE)

I really like razors that bend the blade a lot. That’s why I love the Bird. 😍


It’s interesting how shaving is so subjective. I like the Bird because the blade feel. I don’t like blade chatter but I like to feel where the blade is cutting. I also have a Wolfman WR2 1.25 and I like the Bird more. One feels like a luxury sedan and the other a beautiful sports car. 😎

People talk a lot about the Bird as a blade forwarder razor but this razor is very smooth. One of the best in the industry.




Steep is THE way!!!

I prefer steep angle as well, but I think I went too steep and while the results were still very good, I think the razor can do at least a little bit better once I maintain the optimal angle.
 
First time shaving with blackbird
What can I say Shane, once I get my hands on this razor, I won't need any other razor!

Using the persona supplied with the safety bar
Two passes and a touch up after two days of growing out my beard and I have a perfect BBS.View attachment 1474531View attachment 1474532
I was surprised that there was no irritation or stinging after shaving!
The after shave splash does not blot at all
I wonder if the bending of this blade is the key to its smoothness.

I honestly didn't like the shape very much and didn't get it for a long time, but I should have bought it sooner!

Thank you my loving family for the best Father's Day gift ever!

Thanks for all the different opinions everyone.
Have a good shaving life.
Wow that blade lacks support, I would never own one. I wonder how much the “pride of ownership” effects folks perception of this razor 🤔
 
Wow that blade lacks support, I would never own one. I wonder how much the “pride of ownership” effects folks perception of this razor 🤔

Not sure about "pride of ownership", I bought my Blackbird second-hand, but it gives me the closest, most comfortable shave of any of the 30+ razors in my collection. Excellent post-shave feel and my face still feels smooth 10 hours later is what matters to me.

Too bad you'll never own one, but that's up to you.
 
Wow that blade lacks support, I would never own one. I wonder how much the “pride of ownership” effects folks perception of this razor 🤔
This is often the case for expensive razors. Oh well. I for instance cannot understand the love for the Rex Ambassador e.g.. The blade is sitting on two thin points pressing it against the cap, there is quite some flabby blade exposed. And I just don't like it.

But let me show some examples that going by "clamping above everything else" doesn't seem to be the guarantee for success either. It doesn't decisively determine how well a razor shaves. That's for me even after dozens of razors guesswork.

The Blackbird e.g. doesn't clamp much at all. But it still works very well! The OC is even very effective for me, though not shaving at my favorite angle. Other razors that don't follow the clamping route, or at least not very much, are the Monocero Husaria, the Alpha Outlaw, most classic razors don't do so. The R41, while looking like clamping a lot, has quite some blade chatter. It's still hyper effective, if rough and unforgiving at times.

There are razors that clamp a lot. Most Razorock designs, the Wunderbar even torsions and stiffens the blade, Stando Polska razors, Blutt, Henson... Timeless actually, too.

Now while I in general subscribe to the idea that clamping a lot makes for a stiffer blade and better shave, it doesn't hold true all the time.

For instance, the the Timeless razors should be perfect, they clamp a lot, right? The .95 isn't efficient enough for me. Smooth, yes, efficient... not really. The Timeless Slim 0.5 on the other hand is very efficient for me. It also shows that a higher gap doesn't necessarily mean higher aggression - the 0.5 Slim is the most aggressive Timeless razor.

I didn't have too much faith in the Lupo .95 OC, as I liked the SB, but loved the Game Changer series in general still better. But lo behold, it became my absolute favorite.
 
Wow that blade lacks support, I would never own one. I wonder how much the “pride of ownership” effects folks perception of this razor 🤔
I understand that if I buy an expensive razor or one with a good reputation, there will be enough bias because my mind will move to look for its justification.

But with that taken into account, my blackbird experience was a great experience!
I'm not a minimalist, but I only own 3-4 razors (I buy and sell repeatedly).

The real blackbird performance will be revealed in that rotation, but I'm sure it will stay in the rotation.😍
 
When anyone spends hundreds of dollars on a razor, the natural psychological reaction is to believe that it works very well - because you spend "X" on it, it has to be great. I can never buy the argument that any razor that allows blade flex is "great." DE blades are very thin and flexible, stiff clamping would logically seem to be the best approach to controlling the blade during shaving. Any materials engineers on the forum to help with this discussion?
 
This is often the case for expensive razors. Oh well. I for instance cannot understand the love for the Rex Ambassador e.g.. The blade is sitting on two thin points pressing it against the cap, there is quite some flabby blade exposed. And I just don't like it.

But let me show some examples that going by "clamping above everything else" doesn't seem to be the guarantee for success either. It doesn't decisively determine how well a razor shaves. That's for me even after dozens of razors guesswork.

The Blackbird e.g. doesn't clamp much at all. But it still works very well! The OC is even very effective for me, though not shaving at my favorite angle. Other razors that don't follow the clamping route, or at least not very much, are the Monocero Husaria, the Alpha Outlaw, most classic razors don't do so. The R41, while looking like clamping a lot, has quite some blade chatter. It's still hyper effective, if rough and unforgiving at times.

There are razors that clamp a lot. Most Razorock designs, the Wunderbar even torsions and stiffens the blade, Stando Polska razors, Blutt, Henson... Timeless actually, too.

Now while I in general subscribe to the idea that clamping a lot makes for a stiffer blade and better shave, it doesn't hold true all the time.

For instance, the the Timeless razors should be perfect, they clamp a lot, right? The .95 isn't efficient enough for me. Smooth, yes, efficient... not really. The Timeless Slim 0.5 on the other hand is very efficient for me. It also shows that a higher gap doesn't necessarily mean higher aggression - the 0.5 Slim is the most aggressive Timeless razor.

I didn't have too much faith in the Lupo .95 OC, as I liked the SB, but loved the Game Changer series in general still better. But lo behold, it became my absolute favorite.
I don't believe we are talking about perfect, just very good (within their design parameters). You equate "perfect" with efficient, when the efficiency of different razors is designed to be - different. I am talking about the general parameter of controlling blade flex. Why would any razor designer leave that variable in play, when they can control it by design? They then can make razors with different exposures and gaps - but still with rigid blade control.
 
I don't believe we are talking about perfect, just very good (within their design parameters). You equate "perfect" with efficient, when the efficiency of different razors is designed to be - different. I am talking about the general parameter of controlling blade flex. Why would any razor designer leave that variable in play, when they can control it by design? They then can make razors with different exposures and gaps - but still with rigid blade control.

I think some folks just have light beard and they either don't notice the blade chatter that much or it doesn't affect them and they have little to no issue using such razors.

The same can be said the open and closed combs in terms of comfort. For instance, I find the open combs on some modern razors to be very harsh on the skin (Lupo DC with both .72 oc and .95 sb, Old Type, NEW SC etc.) , since the teeth are not rounded like on other razors like NEW LC or Fatip razors, but some folks don't feel like that and they have zero issues with the more spiky razors and I also wonder why such designs exist or why some folks don't mind them. I used to ask myself how the hell can anyone like this or that razor, blade, brush, soap and what not, but I now I just focus on what works for me and rarely think about such questions, which are impossible to answer and just move on.
 
@Zora
Yes, I hated the chatter and movement of the double-edged razor blades in the first place, so I stayed away from that and used AC razors…..

Aside from the fact that I don't know why the blackbird is so smooth and free of blade chatter, I'm going to give the blackbird and AC razor a run for their money.

I wonder if it is better to just hold the blade firmly in place, or if it is better to twist it, or if it is better to bend it hard, or if the designer has a trial-and-error approach to the equation?
Of course, there are a thousand different types of skin, beards, and razor blades, so it would be interesting to know if there is some kind of variable that would allow for more flexibility in this situation.

Oops!!! I forgot that before I started this thread, I believed that bending and stiffening was a good idea anyway!
 
When anyone spends hundreds of dollars on a razor, the natural psychological reaction is to believe that it works very well - because you spend "X" on it, it has to be great. I can never buy the argument that any razor that allows blade flex is "great." DE blades are very thin and flexible, stiff clamping would logically seem to be the best approach to controlling the blade during shaving. Any materials engineers on the forum to help with this discussion?
To me as a person who has worked on equipment in industry most of his life you make a correct assumption on rigidity but when it comes to shaving it seems every one has their opinions and the end results are what they believe and when they feel test. Some razors that have a lot of blade over hang that I see on the forum I'm not interested in them but folks are claiming excellent results is what I'm reading.(go figure?)
 
@Zora
Yes, I hated the chatter and movement of the double-edged razor blades in the first place, so I stayed away from that and used AC razors…..

Aside from the fact that I don't know why the blackbird is so smooth and free of blade chatter, I'm going to give the blackbird and AC razor a run for their money.

I wonder if it is better to just hold the blade firmly in place, or if it is better to twist it, or if it is better to bend it hard, or if the designer has a trial-and-error approach to the equation?
Of course, there are a thousand different types of skin, beards, and razor blades, so it would be interesting to know if there is some kind of variable that would allow for more flexibility in this situation.

Oops!!! I forgot that before I started this thread, I believed that bending and stiffening was a good idea anyway!
In terms of the physics, it was explained to me that the more that the DE blade is bent by the design, the more rigid the blade edge would be as a result of its physical properties. This doesn't mean that razors with a larger bend are necessarily more rigid, given that designs like the Henson or Era exist with barely any natural curve, but it does explain why a design like the Blackbird can feel as rigid as it does with barely any support. The thing is, some designs make chatter impossible, like the flat bottom Techs, so it's a bit dumb not to design for something like that if you can. To help our friends with incredibly tough beards, we should support razor artisans that properly clamp their blades and warn fellow hobbyists when the design is objectively subpar. Some people will live and die by their aluminum Lupo, but it doesn't change the fact that it will chatter heavily on all but two of the 20-30 blade brands that I've tried with it, which is objectively bad design.
 
I figure I need a highly rigid holder that doesn't have the double-edged chatter and the blade doesn't lose its edge to the beard, and I want to get something better than the wunderbar.
Anything from the popular to the high end is fine with me.
Have you given any thought to a FOCS (Fatip Open Comb Slant), or an MMOC? I know of several users of the Wunderbar that prefer the FOCS, as it doesn't have the same propensity for biting.
As you seem to prefer SE style razors, the Micromatic Open Comb uses a Gem style blade, and is right up your alley when it comes to efficiency.

The first thing I noticed about Wolfman razors is the large amount of area the blade is clamped. That makes for a very rigid clamping surface and a very smooth and efficient shave. The waiting list is only up to 12 months these days :ouch1: but I do love mine.

I only have one shave under my belt with my Vector, but it has already earned the "Alpha" badge in my rotation. A true sports car. A Blackbird just might be on my list...:LMS

~doug~
 
Does chatting refer to the sound similar to spreading butter on a crisp slice of toast? If no, what is that sound called and if yes, why would you want to get rid of it as it is a great audible feedback of what is going on?
 
Have you given any thought to a FOCS (Fatip Open Comb Slant), or an MMOC? I know of several users of the Wunderbar that prefer the FOCS, as it doesn't have the same propensity for biting.
As you seem to prefer SE style razors, the Micromatic Open Comb uses a Gem style blade, and is right up your alley when it comes to efficiency.

The first thing I noticed about Wolfman razors is the large amount of area the blade is clamped. That makes for a very rigid clamping surface and a very smooth and efficient shave. The waiting list is only up to 12 months these days :ouch1: but I do love mine.

I only have one shave under my belt with my Vector, but it has already earned the "Alpha" badge in my rotation. A true sports car. A Blackbird just might be on my list...:LMS

~doug~
I've decided that if I'm going to be in a gem hole, it's going to be Sabre, so I'm holding out for MMOC.
wolfman tempts me, but I want another version of blackbird first, brass and all.....
 
Does chatting refer to the sound similar to spreading butter on a crisp slice of toast? If no, what is that sound called and if yes, why would you want to get rid of it as it is a great audible feedback of what is going s
The blade's I'm talking about are different from the sound music of shaving, the blade moves, vibrates, catches the beard, well, that's what I'm talking about:)
 
So if blade clamping is so important, why/how can you shave with a floating blade? The OREN works with a floating blade. It is really good as a daily shaver. It struggles a little with multiple days of growth. It is really good for the lower neck area. In contrast, the Vector is really rigid, and handles tougher beard a little better.
A more flexible blade allows the blade to follow the skin better. It is also better at picking up hair that grows flat on the skin. A flexible head design may need a different shaving technique. You need to understand the limits of the design.
A extra hollow ground straight razor shaves different the a big heavy grind. They need to be used differently.


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