The Quest for the Optimal shave combo

[milanisimus]

Let's get serious in this New Year

Mostly from the previous year (and a bit from earlier), I have gathered my shaving arsenal:

From left to right - soaps, creams, brushes, pre-shaves, razors and blades, aftershave balms and lotions.

Obviously, I went over-buying in 2020, due to enthusiasm and curiosity combo. I made a promise not to buy anything in 2021 at least until Easter time,
so lets see how it goes. Also, I set a task/goal to evaluate some combos from these items, towards finding a optimal reliable combo that yields smooth shave. I was earlier keeping a bit of track in an Excel sheet. I think that sharing the progress here would make me more accountable for it, and hopefully someone else can benefit from it.

I work as researcher/analyst, so you will find a lot of numbers in this thread. Not quite clear, how it will ultimately look like, I will be posting through January previous experiences, and ideas of going forward.

Let's make 2021 smooth

 

[milanisimus]

Since its not the easiest thing to find what works best, a good approach is to figure out what doesn't work
and start to eliminate options.

For me what doesn't work:
I forgot to put in the photo, I have 1 shavette razor, got it just to try if I can use it.
I have too much issues with coordination of movements and sight/visibility soo
the shavette is eliminated for now.

Arko soap - after using it 2 or 3 times i noticed itching and general not feel good on both cheeks and
especially on neck area. That is eliminated also.

After shave gel - the yellow bottle between Floid and Dr. Harris, its from Benjamin barber.
Its supposed to be sth between lotion and balm, but in my experience it is neither and i dont see much good from it.
One more item left in background.

From the last shave, and based on some reviews that I read, I think that the green proraso cream tube, is heading in that direction also. It has nice refreshing smell, but I dont have the impression that it provides some protection/aid for the skin.
Both Proraso aftershaves the lotion and the balm are decent, nothing more.
The listed items here can be used from time to time, just for the sake of change, they don't seem to have longterm future here.

What seems to work:

The blades are fixed to be Feather. I bought maybe 20 other samples packs, but for now, I don't change the blade,
keep this item constant.
For the cream/soap, Proraso black/dark blue Aloe vera cream and red soap do great lather for me, and my skin feels great during shave and after.
The razor for now is fixed to be Muhle R41, I bought it just 2-3 weeks ago, and I already love it. The previous one was Merkur 34C, which did good job.
Shaving brush Omega, need to check exactly which type it was. It does very good job for me.

On the aftershaves, Myrsol, Dr Harris and especially the Muhle balm do great job.
I put on first lotion, after the alum block, and after 30-60min, I put on the balm.

Some things from the first photo, I haven't opened yet - mostly proraso sensitive line products.

 

[CuzteR]

After shave gel - the yellow bottle between Floid and Dr. Harris, its from Benjamin barber.
Its supposed to be sth between lotion and balm, but in my experience it is neither

I'm with you on the Benjamin Barber gel, even though I like the smell (in my case Saffron & Leather)

Since I like the scent I was thinking of trying their soap. I see you have the Benjamin Barber soap on the left (even though its Oud) but it seems to be unpacked, have you tried it yet? Any thoughts?

 

[milanisimus]

I'm with you on the Benjamin Barber gel, even though I like the smell (in my case Saffron & Leather)

Since I like the scent I was thinking of trying their soap. I see you have the Benjamin Barber soap on the left (even though its Oud) but it seems to be unpacked, have you tried it yet? Any thoughts?

hi, sorry for late reply.

the soap is actually opened. i forgot to get some casing for it, so i found that bag to kind of seal it.

i cant comment much on the soap since i tried it just once and had difficulties to make leather from it, due to the packaging.
will try on the next shave and update you.

while on the Benjamin products, i have to say the preshave oil is great
(its in bad position on first photo).
i am sure that it will stay for longer use, it provides great sliding for any razor, i get perfect shave on the cheeks with it.

 

[milanisimus]

I would say this is the first decent finding in my journal.

For some time, I want to test the Idea, of treating the cheeks and the neck as separate areas/segments,
so to take separate approach for each.
What really forced me to go that way, was the shave before this one.

Most of the components were same:
Benjamin barber preshave oil, Proraso Aloe vera cream, Muhle R41 loaded with Feather blade (first use of the blade).

The cheeks went more than perfect. Perhaps the very best shave that I have achieved at that area.
Preshave oil really works well for me - it has some fresh herbal scent, and I can feel the razor gliding/sliding super easy.
Add to this Muhle R41 loaded with new Feather blade - I assume you all know the outcome.

Then the problems started - I found out why many people here label Muhle+Feather combo as bloodthirsty.
I had the most serious cut, around the jawline. The razor was still sliding smoothly due to the preshave prep,
and making several cuts in the process. I was bleeding here for real, first time in my life.
Somehow ended it with both alumblock and styptic pencil and learned my lesson.

For the next shave (the one with the attached photo) decided to slightly adjust the setup:
For the cheeks all is same - same input, same output, simple as that.

I don't think that there are many better combos for cheeks than preshave oil and Muhle + Feather.
If anyone has better idea, I am listening.

For the neck area few adjustments:
I used proraso sensitive preshave cream - I don't need that much gliding in that area, since I take the strokes
slowly and with much more focus, this cream does calm the skin, and I find it among the top products for sensitive neck.
Since I didn't want to see any blood after the previous carnage, I decided to take cartridge for the neck
I take Gillete Skinguard Sensitive (or sth like that) with 2 blades and sth between them.
I find this blades to be the closest from cartridge to safety razor, and very suitable and reliable for sensitive neck area.

This shave was massive success - cheeks super smooth, neck without any cuts or irritations.
It was not smooth in the lower neck side areas (I always face issues there), since I didnt wanted to force third pass.

This is documented functional combination! While it is subject to further experimentation, I know that I can always use
this when I need a reliable shave.

For first time after a long period, I applied after-shave balm after the alum block and skipping the lotion in between.
While I got immediate sense of cool-down, I kind of missed the light sting of the lotion. This was just a try, and anyway
Muhle aftershave balm is much more recommended that this Proraso option.

What I have next in Mind:
Cheeks setup will stay same for long time ahead (unless I gather thr courage to try Shavette again or Straight)

For Neck:
I will try results with Merkur 34C with various blades - Astra, Gillette variations, and other recent purchases.
Other option is getting 1 more Muhle R41 razor, ahd using them with different blades (Feather for the cheeks,
other option for the neck) - this option will wait, as I made commitment not to buy anything at least up to Easter.

Look forward to your comments, suggestions and simmillar experiences.

 

[thombrogan]

I’m very sorry to read your razor bit deep and bit often and hope you heal soon.

I’ve had mine sink into the bottom of my chin when shaving upwards from my neck because I hadn’t tilted my head back far enough to present a flat-enough surface. Moving one’s head to present a flat surface between the neck and jawline or bottom chin and neck can help.

 

[Rosseforp]

Other option is getting 1 more Muhle R41 razor, ahd using them with different blades (Feather for the cheeks,
other option for the neck) - this option will wait, as I made commitment not to buy anything at least up to Easter.

I cannot speak from experience as I have not yet used my Rose Gold Mühle R41 , but it is my understanding that a steep approach is more desirable than riding the cap. It is entirely possible that you lost the proper angle as you rounded your jawline and the R41 decided to jump up and bite.

Looking forward to reading about your quest for the Optimal Shave. I'm looking for the Perfect Edge!

Doug

 

[AimlessWanderer]

View attachment 1207948

I would say this is the first decent finding in my journal.

For some time, I want to test the Idea, of treating the cheeks and the neck as separate areas/segments,
so to take separate approach for each.
What really forced me to go that way, was the shave before this one.

Most of the components were same:
Benjamin barber preshave oil, Proraso Aloe vera cream, Muhle R41 loaded with Feather blade (first use of the blade).

The cheeks went more than perfect. Perhaps the very best shave that I have achieved at that area.
Preshave oil really works well for me - it has some fresh herbal scent, and I can feel the razor gliding/sliding super easy.
Add to this Muhle R41 loaded with new Feather blade - I assume you all know the outcome.

Then the problems started - I found out why many people here label Muhle+Feather combo as bloodthirsty.
I had the most serious cut, around the jawline. The razor was still sliding smoothly due to the preshave prep,
and making several cuts in the process. I was bleeding here for real, first time in my life.
Somehow ended it with both alumblock and styptic pencil and learned my lesson.

For the next shave (the one with the attached photo) decided to slightly adjust the setup:
For the cheeks all is same - same input, same output, simple as that.

I don't think that there are many better combos for cheeks than preshave oil and Muhle + Feather.
If anyone has better idea, I am listening.

For the neck area few adjustments:
I used proraso sensitive preshave cream - I don't need that much gliding in that area, since I take the strokes
slowly and with much more focus, this cream does calm the skin, and I find it among the top products for sensitive neck.
Since I didn't want to see any blood after the previous carnage, I decided to take cartridge for the neck
I take Gillete Skinguard Sensitive (or sth like that) with 2 blades and sth between them.
I find this blades to be the closest from cartridge to safety razor, and very suitable and reliable for sensitive neck area.

This shave was massive success - cheeks super smooth, neck without any cuts or irritations.
It was not smooth in the lower neck side areas (I always face issues there), since I didnt wanted to force third pass.

This is documented functional combination! While it is subject to further experimentation, I know that I can always use
this when I need a reliable shave.

For first time after a long period, I applied after-shave balm after the alum block and skipping the lotion in between.
While I got immediate sense of cool-down, I kind of missed the light sting of the lotion. This was just a try, and anyway
Muhle aftershave balm is much more recommended that this Proraso option.

What I have next in Mind:
Cheeks setup will stay same for long time ahead (unless I gather thr courage to try Shavette again or Straight)

For Neck:
I will try results with Merkur 34C with various blades - Astra, Gillette variations, and other recent purchases.
Other option is getting 1 more Muhle R41 razor, ahd using them with different blades (Feather for the cheeks,
other option for the neck) - this option will wait, as I made commitment not to buy anything at least up to Easter.

Look forward to your comments, suggestions and simmillar experiences.

Here's the good news, if a razor/blade combo can cut below skin level and cause that kind of bleeding, it can cut at skin level, and deliver a completely smooth shave.

I don't know if I've subjected you to my usual "lecture" yet, but here's my guide for newbies to DE

The Wanderer's Guide To DE Shaving

Part One I was self taught with a DE razor 25 years ago, and had to figure out a lot of things the hard way. I learned a lot of things over the years, but wish there had been an experienced DE shaver who could have taught me the basics early on. This guide is offered so that you can get to...

www.badgerandblade.com

The first three posts in that thread lay down the. foundations, while the fourth looks at the potential problems raised when bringing it all together. Hopefully there'll be enough in there to coax you away from those cuts and leakages, and towards the optimal shave you're looking for.

 

[milanisimus]

I’m very sorry to read your razor bit deep and bit often and hope you heal soon.

I’ve had mine sink into the bottom of my chin when shaving upwards from my neck because I hadn’t tilted my head back far enough to present a flat-enough surface. Moving one’s head to present a flat surface between the neck and jawline or bottom chin and neck can help.

sincerely, i dont recall the move that lead to that deeper cut.
i shave more than a year with safety razor, trying more than 10 different blades in that period.

with the new aggressive R41 razor, it was like 4-5th shave, so on the previous ones
with derby and muhle blades there was no issues.

likely outcome is that previous razor-blade combos were more forgiving to some flaws
in my technique. this one (R41+Feather) havent heard about mercy

 

[milanisimus]

Here's the good news, if a razor/blade combo can cut below skin level and cause that kind of bleeding, it can cut at skin level, and deliver a completely smooth shave.

I don't know if I've subjected you to my usual "lecture" yet, but here's my guide for newbies to DE

The Wanderer's Guide To DE Shaving

Part One I was self taught with a DE razor 25 years ago, and had to figure out a lot of things the hard way. I learned a lot of things over the years, but wish there had been an experienced DE shaver who could have taught me the basics early on. This guide is offered so that you can get to...

www.badgerandblade.com

The first three posts in that thread lay down the. foundations, while the fourth looks at the potential problems raised when bringing it all together. Hopefully there'll be enough in there to coax you away from those cuts and leakages, and towards the optimal shave you're looking for.

thanks on the input.
when i opened the link, it looked familiar, for sure i have opened it earlier,
but likely not read in details and digest properly.

here is the situation:
i am using safety razor for around year and a half (most of it goes to mercur 34c, i got muhle r41 1 month ago)
in the beginning as all wonderers, I read too much, got confused, and had little progress.

after some time, I stopped the reading part, and went to trial and error, which also led to opening this journal.
going towards documented proven/reliable combinations is the aim of this thread, and i am happy that i have already
defined 2 combos - 1 good and 1 bad.
for a future work would be to see if the bad one can be turned into good, or somewhere between.

reading your guide now, I feel well covered on most aspects except the blade angle,
and in particular during the jawline and neck areas.
i do the shaves with muscle mind memory or based on the feel, and on the end,
the application of alum block is kind of feedback to how the shave went.

there is definitely the potential to significantly improve the technique by finding optimal angle and position
of the blade. in my opinion, this is to be found during shaving. the fact that i shave roughly twice per week
(no demand for this at work), delays the learning experience.
still no hurry, i love the process and its likely my favourite hobby in the moment!

will update in this thread results from applications of your proposed techniques.

 

[milanisimus]

To Anyone that reads/follows this thread

About Barber Shave

I scheduled a shave at the guy, where I usually go for haircut.
He has been doing good job for hair, and looked skilled in general.
I asked him last time if he does shaving and we scheduled it for today.

The idea was to see, what I ger from a barber, and how my recent shaves compare against it.
This is a schoolbook example of good idea turning seriously bad.

I ended up with few cuts, moderato-to-serious irritation, and not even cleaned
lather. While I was aware that I can't expect from every barber, to follow all the steps
that I generally do at home, this was seriously bad and painful.

Way too dry lather, which did more of a scratch than lubrication on my face,
almost useless blades (Lord or sth simmilar, I recall them from RazorBladeClub,
that doesnt seem sth convincing), and on the end some spray aftershave, which
didnt do any good.

I came running home, and cleaned, applied lotion and balm, and 1h after all that
I am typing this post, now its calmed down.

My points here:

1. I see barber/shaving as dying craft (unfortunately) in many regions of the World,
including Sweden where I am currently. There is so low demand, that the common low prices
that average barber was charging are not enough to make a living.

2. Unless you go to some classy/well known place or chain, lower down your expectations.
You have no idea what tools/products this guy use, and I would bet they are generally on the
lower cost end.

3. I did 2 barber shaves up to now in life, mostly out of curiosity. Unless thats the case for you,
or you can have a regular barber over a longer period, then way better approach is to take care
of it yourself.

Hope you find this experience useful.

 

[thombrogan]

I’m very sorry your barber shave was injurious and didn’t live up to your expectations. I’m hoping your cuts heal well and heal quickly.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

^ +1

Look on the bright side. You can shave yourself better than a professional barber can

 

[milanisimus]

@thombrogan & @AimlessWanderer
thanks on the support.
minor correction, I wouldn't call that guy a professional barber,
way too many flows at almost each stage.
Next time more research before allowing someone
to put knife on my throat hahaha

 

[milanisimus]

I'm with you on the Benjamin Barber gel, even though I like the smell (in my case Saffron & Leather)

Since I like the scent I was thinking of trying their soap. I see you have the Benjamin Barber soap on the left (even though its Oud) but it seems to be unpacked, have you tried it yet? Any thoughts?

I tried making lather from the soap, without shaving today
(you can see from the previous posts, the various experiments I did in the past period)

I have to say that I like it - easy and quick to make lather,
better texture/consistency compared to Proraso
(I havent used many shaving creams and soaps - this one, proraso products and Arko
so the only basis for comparison is Proraso)

Worked well with both badger and synthetic brush.




I will definitely use it in my next shave, and update here with more detailed review.

 

[Rosseforp]

The idea was to see, what I ger from a barber, and how my recent shaves compare against it.
This is a schoolbook example of good idea turning seriously bad.

Did the guy even apologize?

 

[milanisimus]

Did the guy even apologize?

the guy was convinced that he is doing a good job.
he has been doing the job for over 20 years, which makes it even more weird.
no apology, but i dont take that as a big deal. that guy is friendly and i will
keep going for haircuts there, this was a bad beat, and perhaps he hasn't been
doing shaving lately (i see minimal demand for shaving at barbers, especially in Sweden,
since I was looking for some time, even to find a barber)

the thing is, it started good and was deteriorating step by step.
good lather in the beginning (i had my face washed with face cleanser
and applied preshave, on my own before going to the saloon)

the cheeks went fine. the neck started well also.
the issue started with him going at middle to low neck area
against the grain from first pass. and even then the first pass was tolerable
(not comfortable, but tolerable)
from 2nd pass onwards, the dense cream, got even more dense and dry
and it was doing more harm than good, combined with against the grain strokes
with not so sharp blade.

that was the point when i had enough, and left it with few spots not finished.

its all fine today, after I cleaned properly the face, applied after shave balm 2-3 times
during the day, it calmed nicely and now it is just a bad memory, no physical traces thankfully.

the idea was to have 1 shave per month at a barber (when i go for a haircut),
but i dont see it working while I am in the current city.

 

[milanisimus]

Greetings Gents,
it's been some time since my last post here
(which doesn't mean that I didn't shave during that period )

I provide some update points, relevant to my shaving journey.

1. Somehow (I don't know how) I managed to keep up to my promise,
not to buy new shaving products up to Easter. Likely a helping factor was,
that I made serious supplies stock during Christmas period, so I had things to test.
Will look at the options to add some after shave lotions to the collections around Easter.

2. Regarding the shaving setup:
I used some of the previous posts/experiences, to make some stable framework,
which gives good to great results.

Cheeks - the easiest, and the best part for shaving
Muhle R41 loaded with new Feathers, its been working perfectly
I can't think of many sharper combinations than this.
I have in mind at some point to try some of the Feather shavettes here,
but will likely wait for some suitable offers on them, or when I have less other obligations.

Neck - The first 1/2 passes go with Merkur 34C, as less aggressive option.
Initially it was 3 pass - WTG, XTG and ATG.
I have found that the XTG pass takes me a lot of time, and still by itself it cant deliver BBS,
and I have to to a ATG after it.
So I modified towards 1 or 2 WTG (depending on time and motivation) and 1 ATG.
I do the ATG with Gillette Sensitive (cartridge with 2 blades and likely some rubber in between)
It does great job up to now. The low side edges have been identified as most demanding areas on the neck,
which require the most focus during shave.

While I have loads of different blades available, they will have to wait, to examine all the combinations
of other products, around this stable shaving setup.

3. On products review

Proraso White & Red >> Proraso Green

Once I was reading some comparison of shaving creams and soaps (i think from mantic59)
where he straight forward put it that green proraso cream is like low quality product.
That was my experience also - I had irritation (mostly on the sides of the neck) with the same setup,
while having shaves with white and red proraso cream/soap, there was no irritation at all.

4. Other factors effect on shave

It has been a loooong, cold and dry air Swedish winter. I will retry some of the past "Experiments"
during spring/summer. Perhaps green proraso (menthol/eucalyptus), feels better during warmer weather.

Will look for some other ideas, towards changes/improvements in the setup.
Looking forward to any comment/suggestions for some different combinations.

 

[Lefonque]

A nice update.