The Quest: DFS + 0 Irritation or Ingrown Hairs

[Esox]

I only have one shave with it, but I kept falling into the injector angle (head angle about 5-10 degrees off the flush with the skin) instead of totally flush with the skin. I think I was trying to feel the blade, which these razors do not need to be efficient.

I think this a common thing for people too do. We get use to feeling something while we shave and when we dont feel it, we overcompensate so that we can. The result is usually a poor post shave feel at best.

Stirling soaps I dont really have any issue with and use them often myself. Its been a while since I broke a lather with a Stirling soap, but it took considerable water and I dont generally load heavily so that can make it even more sensitive.

One thing I've always liked about Stirling is the slickness. It needs to be very wet to destroy the slickness. Its not Tabac slick, but its pretty good.

Cushion on the other hand I can lose completely very easily with Stirling, less easily with Tabac, but when it gets to that point, Tabac is the slicker of the two.

 

[Tokyospike]

Completely agree on your Stirling take. Easy lathering and residual slickness are 95% of a soap for me. I’m not looking for cushion, so I don’t generally judge on that. Will probably try Tabac some day.

 

[Esox]

Will probably try Tabac some day.

See below. He's preparing to shave with Tabac. lol

 

[Johnnynroy]

Completely agree on your Stirling take. Easy lathering and residual slickness are 95% of a soap for me. I’m not looking for cushion, so I don’t generally judge on that. Will probably try Tabac some day.

I love Stirling. Such great stuff. Slickness and residual slickness are top notch. I find the cushion good enough for me, as well as the post shave.

I think this a common thing for people too do. We get use to feeling something while we shave and when we dont feel it, we overcompensate so that we can. The result is usually a poor post shave feel at best.

Stirling soaps I dont really have any issue with and use them often myself. Its been a while since I broke a lather with a Stirling soap, but it took considerable water and I dont generally load heavily so that can make it even more sensitive.

One thing I've always liked about Stirling is the slickness. It needs to be very wet to destroy the slickness. Its not Tabac slick, but its pretty good.

Cushion on the other hand I can lose completely very easily with Stirling, less easily with Tabac, but when it gets to that point, Tabac is the slicker of the two.

Apologies for misinterpreting your other posts about these soaps/creams.

See below. He's preparing to shave with Tabac. lol

And this is the main reason why I won't be using Tabac...

 

[Johnnynroy]

I've been having an interesting debate with myself (and a forum member or two) recently regarding scents. I hear talk around B&B from older members about how they remember their father wearing a certain scent, etc. Scent being a very powerful trigger for memory got me thinking that my current multitude of scents wouldn't really have that same kind of effect on any of my own future children.

When I got into wet shaving, I wasn't expecting to own as many soaps as I do (it's over a dozen...) or as many razors or blades or brushes or... I'm currently engulfed in another fit of RAD but see an end in sight, and luckily shouldn't be financially behind because of it. I almost succumbed to placing a massive Stirling order the other day though, due to my thinking of scents and memory and the desire to whittle the collection down to a very small number.

I see some disadvantages of having only one scent I use:
1. no variety and easily getting tired of it
2. inability to monitor scent strength well as I get used to it
3. No flexibility if it is discontinued or changed in a way I don't like
4. Inability for loved ones to purchase new things for me to try out as "he only uses product x anyway"

I think having a rotation of maybe 3 or 4 different scents is where I would like to be. The next question I run into is "which scents?" and "which soaps/aftershaves?". I love Bay Rum, so I will definitely want that as one of my scents. I want an Acqua di Parma Colonia Knockoff. I think I want a Creed Aventus knockoff or maybe just a different "cologne type scent". Then maybe a citrus scent, or maybe a sandalwood scent. I could just get these in aftershaves and then do complementary scented, unscented, or lightly scented soaps. Soap base for me would be Stirling, Cella, WhollyKaw or Sudsy Soapery. I could shave with any of those four day in, day out and be happy. Looking at those companies, only Stirling makes all of the products I'm seeking. Unfortunately, I don't think their aftershaves agree with my skin. And I know their fragrance oils don't always agree with my skin (and often disagree very vigorously). I believe I would prefer a very lightly scented soap to an unscented soap (unscented tallow? yuck...).

Now to my questions for the braintrust: Are there any companies out there I missed that are more established with excellent performing soap bases or aftershaves? Am I crazy with this scent tied to memory thing in general? Is it a very insignificant thing? or is it an even bigger thing than I'm thinking? Weird one: does anyone have any experience taking a balm and turning it into an alcohol based aftershave? I want to take Sudsy's balm and make an aftershave splash out of it if possible.

I do currently have a Creed Aventus knockoff (Fine soaps) that works fairly well as a soap, but the aftershave smells "like peppermint barf" according to SWMBO. My Fine American Blend aftershave is a bit more subdued on the menthol, but not much. Why does he put so much menthol in there? Any way to reduce the menthol level in an aftershave besides by diluting the aftershave? I also forgot a scent: oud. I will need to have an oud scent in my shave den too. Hopefully I can plan out my future purchases using all of this information and finally put all of these ADs behind me (ha, right).

Oh, PS for Jim @Chan Eil Whiskers: you might need to try out an I-2 hydro magic at some point. Holy moses is it efficient. It has a lot of blade feel, but is fairly smooth. Reminds me a lot of my Type G, but maybe a touch more blade feel and efficiency. Looking at my I-1, there is a significant difference between the two of them. I'll try to post pictures up tomorrow to show the differences.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Be interesting to see what develops here, Joel. I have no immediate thoughts about the scent stuff other than to echo how deeply important scent is to us. How deep in the brain does it go?

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Esox]

Are there any companies out there I missed that are more established with excellent performing soap bases

You might look at Wickhams if you havent yet. Its in Jims top 4, they have a growing line of scents and they sure wont break the bank.

Wickham Soap Co. 1912 Vegetal Shaving Soap

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

You might look at Wickhams if you havent yet. Its in Jims top 4, they have a growing line of scents and they sure wont break the bank.

Wickham Soap Co. 1912 Vegetal Shaving Soap

I've always liked Wickham 1912. A lot.

Recently I've come to like it even more if that is possible. It seems to me to have the world's best residual glide. Maybe that is me dreaming something up, but I don't think so.

The scents I have are Cashmere and Magnum. They are somewhat similar to my nose. You know I really can't describe a scent for the life of me, but I like both. These 1912 scents are not weak like some scents where you can't smell anything without trying super hard, but they're also not overpowering. I'm not saying either of them smell anything like DR Harris's Arlington, which I love, but they remind me somehow of Arlington. Yet they're stronger smelling than Arlington. I'm sure that doesn't help at all.

Wickham discusses their scents and gives scent profiles, but those mean something to you, and not to me.

The main thing for me with any soap unless it smells bad like Tabac is performance. It must conform to my application and lathering procedure and it must become well hydrated, slick, and have residual glide. I don't know what cushion means really, but I know I want the soap to protect my skin. Wickham does that.

I also am not sure what post shave feel means. Yet, I like how my skin feels after I shave with 1912. Maybe that's post shave feel. What soaps have bad post shave feel? Answer: Soaps that don't work well to protect the skin.

I don't know anything about butters and all that stuff. Some soaps like MdC don't seem to have much of that stuff if any and yet they work great. Others have tons of great stuff but don't perform well.

I know what I like and I like 1912, but that doesn't mean I know anything and certainly not about what works for anybody else's beard and skin and preferences.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Esox]

Wickham discusses their scents and gives scent profiles, but those mean something to you, and not to me.

I dont get much from the usual scent profile listings either. What exactly does Neroli smell like? Why not just tell us oranges! lol

I prefer Stirlings scent profiles.

"What’s that? You didn’t make it to the NFL and you’ll never know the feeling of having your face mashed into the ground at Lambeau Field while scoring a touchdown in December? We’d be happy to help you out with that. A blend of nine essential oils and menthol meant to recreate the scent and feel of earth in winter."

Now that I understand, and it smells exactly like clean frozen dirt lol.

"This soap is like a punch in the face from a snowman. A snowman who just brushed his teeth."

That I understand too, but I dont like snow, which explains why I havent yet tried it haha. Its suppose to go well over 100F with the humidity here by the weekend so I just might.

 

[Tokyospike]

I like your way of thinking, Joel! The two companies that come to mind besides Stirling that have good soaps and aftershaves in a range of interesting scents are Chiseled Face and Chatillon Lux.

But going through sort of the same process you are, for my main rotation I ended up choosing complimentary rather than matching scents. For example CC CO9T splash and Barrister’s Reserve Spice soap rather than a matched Bay Rum pair; or Fine Santal Absolut splash with CRSW Sandalwood soap.

I didn’t plan it that way, it just sort of happened. I tried different soaps and splashes in the same general scent profile until I found one that I couldn’t wait to use again, and then I stopped looking. Where I stopped with the splash was rarely where I stopped with the soap. In fact, the only matching set I have is Ghost Town Barber.

 

[Johnnynroy]

I like your way of thinking, Joel! The two companies that come to mind besides Stirling that have good soaps and aftershaves in a range of interesting scents are Chiseled Face and Chatillon Lux.

But going through sort of the same process you are, for my main rotation I ended up choosing complimentary rather than matching scents. For example CC CO9T splash and Barrister’s Reserve Spice soap rather than a matched Bay Rum pair; or Fine Santal Absolut splash with CRSW Sandalwood soap.

I didn’t plan it that way, it just sort of happened. I tried different soaps and splashes in the same general scent profile until I found one that I couldn’t wait to use again, and then I stopped looking. Where I stopped with the splash was rarely where I stopped with the soap. In fact, the only matching set I have is Ghost Town Barber.

Thanks for the input Spike!

I do have some chiseled face soap samples somewhere so I’ll have to dig those out.

One thought that keeps recurring for me is to just buy a kilo of Cella and use that daily. I need to do some more dedicated shaves with several soaps and limit my variables to really determine what I think of them, Cella being one. My recollection is excellent slickness and residual glide, with acceptable to good cushion and barely acceptable post shave feel. What I mean with post shave feel is that my skin doesn’t feel dried out, has a supple quality to it, and feels generally comfortable. I’ve tried a few soaps that completely dry my skin out and I hate that feeling immensely. I used Fine Platinum yesterday, which to me has the absolute bare minimum of post shave feel that I find acceptable. In the winter it wouldn’t be acceptable for me as I would need a balm for my face not to flake and peel. And I don’t have that dry of skin.

Writing down all of that helped me narrow my Stirling cart from $50 of products to less than $30. I’m going to still try out some of their samples I think. Hopefully I won’t have any irritation with the ones I pick lol. I know I’m not a true minimalist at heart, but I want to get things narrowed down for next year some. I’m planning to enter into the purchase sabbatical next year, so I want everything in place for that ahead of time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I know I’m not a true minimalist at heart, but I want to get things narrowed down for next year some.

I’m planning to enter into the purchase sabbatical next year, so I want everything in place for that ahead of time.

Spoiler

Joel, just giving you a hard time. I'm sure you'll have more to say about these plans of yours. Whatever you do is likely to be for the best, but somehow I don't quite see you as being a purchase sabbatical guy. Not saying how I see things is even close to the reality or important in any way. You're the only one whose opinion or decision matters a whit.

I'm another mix and match scent guy but you know how little I know about scents. Still, I have a sensitive primitive sense of smell.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Tokyospike]

Anti-minimalist bigotry will only provoke us. And nobody wants to see what that looks like . . .

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Anti-minimalist bigotry will only provoke us. And nobody wants to see what that looks like . . .

 

[Johnnynroy]

My NEW misadventure:

I was talking with Mike @Esox sometime after my Krona and Pre war tech shaves and he mentioned that I should try out the post war baseplates: post war tech and NEW SC. My first shave with it was yesterday using a Polsilver (the same one I used in the pre war tech). The NEW SC shaved my neck better than most other razors I’ve used before, using a very steep angle. But, and this is the big issue, it couldn’t tackle my chin. At all. It hung up in the whiskers, no matter the angle. I tried very very shallow at first and it wouldn’t cut any of the whiskers. Very steep it cut a little but it mostly just tugged. Neutral angle was more tugging. That was with my WhollyKaw soap on a second pass which is very very slick. It seemed to me that the Polsilver somehow wasn’t sharp enough for those whiskers.

So today, I pulled out a fresh Bic Chrome Platinum which are supposed to be stupid sharp. It was as bad or worse than the Polsilver. And keep in mind, I’m not shooting for BBS. This is always an attempt for DFS. I actually couldn’t get my chin to even a CCS. The WTG pass with this razor is completely pointless, it doesn’t do anything. Using sound as my guide, the angle wasn’t hard to find, but what I thought on the WTG pass was whiskers being cut was them being stroked. It combs my beard very well lol. I had patches of hair leftover and tons of weepers on my chin. I had an incorrect angle on my neck and ended up with a couple weepers there.

I had so many whiskers left on the chin that I ended up pulling out an injector and gently going over it. I did relather before doing that (and before every single stroke during the normal shave which I don’t always do). Still a few whiskers missed, but my skin was so sore I couldn’t go over it more than once. The injector didn’t tug in the least. It just easily sliced through what I presented it with.

I’ve only had a few shaves with these DEs, but I think there are a few conclusions that can be made:

-DE blades are too thin for my beard. Even the most rigid of designs have some flex in the blade.

-Injectors are strictly superior to DEs for my beard and skin, especially when tackling when my chin.

-There is a trade off for me between my neck and chin. If a razor shaves one well, it is unlikely to shave the other well. My preference is shaving my chin well.

-The NEW SC was nowhere close to the silver bullet I’d hoped it would be. It is a beautiful razor, but I have other beautiful razors that shave me much much better.

-Could I learn to shave better with the NEW? Possibly. Interestingly, the shaves with the Krona and pre war tech went pretty well, so my DE technique isn’t as bad as I had thought. That makes me think that my technique isn’t the issue with the NEW, it is likely the NEW not working well with my beard.

-Both WK and SV soaps work better for me with my synthetic brushes.

I start work up again tomorrow and will be extremely busy going forward. I won’t have nearly the time to experiment with the DEs, especially with the trouble I’ve been having with them. Back to the injectors I go!

Enjoy the shaves all!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Esox]

My NEW misadventure:

I was talking with Mike @Esox sometime after my Krona and Pre war tech shaves and he mentioned that I should try out the post war baseplates: post war tech and NEW SC. My first shave with it was yesterday using a Polsilver (the same one I used in the pre war tech). The NEW SC shaved my neck better than most other razors I’ve used before, using a very steep angle. But, and this is the big issue, it couldn’t tackle my chin. At all. It hung up in the whiskers, no matter the angle. I tried very very shallow at first and it wouldn’t cut any of the whiskers. Very steep it cut a little but it mostly just tugged. Neutral angle was more tugging. That was with my WhollyKaw soap on a second pass which is very very slick. It seemed to me that the Polsilver somehow wasn’t sharp enough for those whiskers.

So today, I pulled out a fresh Bic Chrome Platinum which are supposed to be stupid sharp. It was as bad or worse than the Polsilver. And keep in mind, I’m not shooting for BBS. This is always an attempt for DFS. I actually couldn’t get my chin to even a CCS. The WTG pass with this razor is completely pointless, it doesn’t do anything. Using sound as my guide, the angle wasn’t hard to find, but what I thought on the WTG pass was whiskers being cut was them being stroked. It combs my beard very well lol. I had patches of hair leftover and tons of weepers on my chin. I had an incorrect angle on my neck and ended up with a couple weepers there.

I had so many whiskers left on the chin that I ended up pulling out an injector and gently going over it. I did relather before doing that (and before every single stroke during the normal shave which I don’t always do). Still a few whiskers missed, but my skin was so sore I couldn’t go over it more than once. The injector didn’t tug in the least. It just easily sliced through what I presented it with.

I’ve only had a few shaves with these DEs, but I think there are a few conclusions that can be made:

-DE blades are too thin for my beard. Even the most rigid of designs have some flex in the blade.

-Injectors are strictly superior to DEs for my beard and skin, especially when tackling when my chin.

-There is a trade off for me between my neck and chin. If a razor shaves one well, it is unlikely to shave the other well. My preference is shaving my chin well.

-The NEW SC was nowhere close to the silver bullet I’d hoped it would be. It is a beautiful razor, but I have other beautiful razors that shave me much much better.

-Could I learn to shave better with the NEW? Possibly. Interestingly, the shaves with the Krona and pre war tech went pretty well, so my DE technique isn’t as bad as I had thought. That makes me think that my technique isn’t the issue with the NEW, it is likely the NEW not working well with my beard.

-Both WK and SV soaps work better for me with my synthetic brushes.

I start work up again tomorrow and will be extremely busy going forward. I won’t have nearly the time to experiment with the DEs, especially with the trouble I’ve been having with them. Back to the injectors I go!

Enjoy the shaves all!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thats what OC razors are for. Combing and aligning the whiskers lol. Sorry to laugh but that struck me funny lol.

You made a key point in the fact that DE blades are very thin and very flexible. Combined with gap, any gap, and that edge can, and as you've found, will flex when it meets enough resistance. Its the gap that allows the edge too flex.

As soon as you max out the rigidity with the design of the razor, you substantially increase the ability of a lesser blade for you too tug. The blade flexes less, so if it doesnt cut as well, it will tug more. Something has to give.

The tugging your feeling is being amplified by using such rigid designs. This is where blade choices comes into play on a much more important level. What you're finding, I believe, isnt a lack of sharpness, its a lack of a particular blade(s) coatings to help the edge slice through your hairs. The compositions of everyones hair is different and of the 20 or so blades I've tried in my Grande, only two dont tug at all. Polsilver and Gillette Yellow. Derby Extra can tug very slightly, but not enough to be a concern of mine until the 4th or 5th shave. This is why I toss them after my 4th.

My point being, those blades dont have coatings that stick in my my hairs as they slice through them. Whatever the coatings are, it just lets them slip right through and I feel nothing.

Polsilver work for me, and many others, but there are those, like Al @AimlessWanderer that they simply do not work for. I firmly believe its the coatings and how they react with ones hair composition.

A couple other points I'm curious about is skin stretching in relation to pressure applied. I remember you saying you do very little or no skin stretching at all. If your skin is relaxed, any blade will tug more than it will if your skin is tight. As I said, something has to give. If your skin is tight it has less give, so the blade is being forced to cut more efficiently.

The other is pressure. I suspect your shaving with as little pressure as you possibly can and trying to keep the razor itself off of your skin. That will also increase any tugging action, especially when combined with relaxed skin. The blade is doing nothing more than plucking at the hairs.

The razor should be in firm, but not heavy, contact with the skin, at least thats how I use them, the MMOC included. If I was to use the amount of pressure I think you may be using, I'd have the same issue, and I know it because I've tried it. Others, again such as Al, I'm sure will disagree because our techniques vary quite a lot I believe.

You're shaving the skin not the hairs above it, but the hairs off of it. It would be like me trying to use a PAA Bakelite Slant. The razor is so light that if I let it bite into the whiskers on my cheek, I'd bet it would just hang there and my whiskers would support its weight. As soon as I would apply some pressure to keep it firmly, but lightly, against my skin and help it do its job, I suspect it would work a lot better.

In the end it comes down to what you're most comfortable with and what works the best, and the easiest, for you. Not anyone else. Enjoy the injectors! lol

 

[Sharp&Shiny]

My NEW misadventure:

I was talking with Mike @Esox sometime after my Krona and Pre war tech shaves and he mentioned that I should try out the post war baseplates: post war tech and NEW SC. My first shave with it was yesterday using a Polsilver (the same one I used in the pre war tech). The NEW SC shaved my neck better than most other razors I’ve used before, using a very steep angle. But, and this is the big issue, it couldn’t tackle my chin. At all. It hung up in the whiskers, no matter the angle. I tried very very shallow at first and it wouldn’t cut any of the whiskers. Very steep it cut a little but it mostly just tugged. Neutral angle was more tugging. That was with my WhollyKaw soap on a second pass which is very very slick. It seemed to me that the Polsilver somehow wasn’t sharp enough for those whiskers.

So today, I pulled out a fresh Bic Chrome Platinum which are supposed to be stupid sharp. It was as bad or worse than the Polsilver. And keep in mind, I’m not shooting for BBS. This is always an attempt for DFS. I actually couldn’t get my chin to even a CCS. The WTG pass with this razor is completely pointless, it doesn’t do anything. Using sound as my guide, the angle wasn’t hard to find, but what I thought on the WTG pass was whiskers being cut was them being stroked. It combs my beard very well lol. I had patches of hair leftover and tons of weepers on my chin. I had an incorrect angle on my neck and ended up with a couple weepers there.

I had so many whiskers left on the chin that I ended up pulling out an injector and gently going over it. I did relather before doing that (and before every single stroke during the normal shave which I don’t always do). Still a few whiskers missed, but my skin was so sore I couldn’t go over it more than once. The injector didn’t tug in the least. It just easily sliced through what I presented it with.

I’ve only had a few shaves with these DEs, but I think there are a few conclusions that can be made:

-DE blades are too thin for my beard. Even the most rigid of designs have some flex in the blade.

-Injectors are strictly superior to DEs for my beard and skin, especially when tackling when my chin.

-There is a trade off for me between my neck and chin. If a razor shaves one well, it is unlikely to shave the other well. My preference is shaving my chin well.

-The NEW SC was nowhere close to the silver bullet I’d hoped it would be. It is a beautiful razor, but I have other beautiful razors that shave me much much better.

-Could I learn to shave better with the NEW? Possibly. Interestingly, the shaves with the Krona and pre war tech went pretty well, so my DE technique isn’t as bad as I had thought. That makes me think that my technique isn’t the issue with the NEW, it is likely the NEW not working well with my beard.

-Both WK and SV soaps work better for me with my synthetic brushes.

I start work up again tomorrow and will be extremely busy going forward. I won’t have nearly the time to experiment with the DEs, especially with the trouble I’ve been having with them. Back to the injectors I go!

Enjoy the shaves all!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If I remember correctly we both joined the forums around the same time, it’s cool to see the progress you have made and everything you have learned along the way( and the friends you made). You mentioned injectors work well for you, which ones or one is your favorite and what blades do you use? My favorite injector is the I-2 hydromagic(right name?) with a Chinese Schick blade. Goes through several days growth like a lightsaber and always a DFS for me.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Sounds like good experiments and a well considered, rational plan. After all, the bottom line is a good shave.

I play around with razors and experiment to a degree some (my wife for sure) see as in the ad nauseam range. I see it as interesting and fun and adventuresome. Regardless, there are several kits always available, dependable, and easy enough. The injectors are very high on that list + easy + fast enough + unlikely to draw blood even if I thrown them around with reckless abandon.

Would you mind listing in order of your preference the double edged razors you've tried and think highly enough of to list?

There aren't many DE razors which I've tried which in my view of them hold a candle to the injectors, but the ones I really like are very rigid. I'm not sure you've tried any of these.

• My best Old Type (how could you have tried it?).
• My Schaeffer (one shave convinced me).
• The RR SLOC.

I not saying you should try these razors. You might hate them, Joel. Of these three DE razors, the only one you can buy off the shelf and get a known perfect example is the RR SLOC. The Schaeffer is certainly a project (getting the Segal Blade clones made is an undertaking), but boy does it shave nicely.

Injectors are great.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Johnnynroy]

Thats what OC razors are for. Combing and aligning the whiskers lol. Sorry to laugh but that struck me funny lol.

You made a key point in the fact that DE blades are very thin and very flexible. Combined with gap, any gap, and that edge can, and as you've found, will flex when it meets enough resistance. Its the gap that allows the edge too flex.

As soon as you max out the rigidity with the design of the razor, you substantially increase the ability of a lesser blade for you too tug. The blade flexes less, so if it doesnt cut as well, it will tug more. Something has to give.

The tugging your feeling is being amplified by using such rigid designs. This is where blade choices comes into play on a much more important level. What you're finding, I believe, isnt a lack of sharpness, its a lack of a particular blade(s) coatings to help the edge slice through your hairs. The compositions of everyones hair is different and of the 20 or so blades I've tried in my Grande, only two dont tug at all. Polsilver and Gillette Yellow. Derby Extra can tug very slightly, but not enough to be a concern of mine until the 4th or 5th shave. This is why I toss them after my 4th.

My point being, those blades dont have coatings that stick in my my hairs as they slice through them. Whatever the coatings are, it just lets them slip right through and I feel nothing.

Polsilver work for me, and many others, but there are those, like Al @AimlessWanderer that they simply do not work for. I firmly believe its the coatings and how they react with ones hair composition.

A couple other points I'm curious about is skin stretching in relation to pressure applied. I remember you saying you do very little or no skin stretching at all. If your skin is relaxed, any blade will tug more than it will if your skin is tight. As I said, something has to give. If your skin is tight it has less give, so the blade is being forced to cut more efficiently.

The other is pressure. I suspect your shaving with as little pressure as you possibly can and trying to keep the razor itself off of your skin. That will also increase any tugging action, especially when combined with relaxed skin. The blade is doing nothing more than plucking at the hairs.

The razor should be in firm, but not heavy, contact with the skin, at least thats how I use them, the MMOC included. If I was to use the amount of pressure I think you may be using, I'd have the same issue, and I know it because I've tried it. Others, again such as Al, I'm sure will disagree because our techniques vary quite a lot I believe.

You're shaving the skin not the hairs above it, but the hairs off of it. It would be like me trying to use a PAA Bakelite Slant. The razor is so light that if I let it bite into the whiskers on my cheek, I'd bet it would just hang there and my whiskers would support its weight. As soon as I would apply some pressure to keep it firmly, but lightly, against my skin and help it do its job, I suspect it would work a lot better.

In the end it comes down to what you're most comfortable with and what works the best, and the easiest, for you. Not anyone else. Enjoy the injectors! lol

When I had the Schone, I managed to shave in a way similar to what you describe on my cheeks only. It was a terrifying experience but it worked for a couple strokes. The concentration required was immense, as the cap slipped all over the place with my lather as slick as it was. I have not shaved with that amount of pressure before or since, even when I was starting DE shaving.

What struck me today when shaving with this setup was how very much like my old cartridges it felt. Jim @Chan Eil Whiskers has mentioned he could get decent shaves from a cart, but I never could. They gave me ingrowns, irritation, and provided a SAS at best. The reason they provided a poor shave is my chin whiskers. WTG, they would mainly get plucked out very uncomfortably. ATG, the silly razor would get caught and couldn't even pluck them out. I tried growing a goatee, but due to an accident in middle school where I faceplanted in some grass, the whiskers on the right side of my lower lip and the angle of the mouth are very sparse. Basically, a goatee just looks weird on me because of this quarter sized area with 3 or 4 hairs growing but otherwise completely smooth.

Today, I did more skin stretching than I've done in months. My jawline is particularly difficult to shave stretched. I stretched my chin as much as possible, but it still didn't want to be shaved. I don't know how to describe what happens when I shave, but I think you came close so I'll just put it in quotation marks here: "You're shaving the skin not the hairs above it, but the hairs off of it. It would be like me trying to use a PAA Bakelite Slant. The razor is so light that if I let it bite into the whiskers on my cheek, I'd bet it would just hang there and my whiskers would support its weight. As soon as I would apply some pressure to keep it firmly, but lightly, against my skin and help it do its job, I suspect it would work a lot better." This sounds close. When the blade encounters my whiskers, if my pressure isn't completely firm or if the blade is able to flex at all, it seems to slide down the whisker to the base where whisker leaves the skin. The skin deflects the blade a bit, blade finally cuts through whisker at base, and depending on how the blade is deflecting at that instant, it either takes a little skin with or just whisker.

I think you're quite right about the blades and coatings. My best blades have been the Gillette Yellows, Astra SPs, Voskhods and Rapira Platinum Lux. Oh, and the Shark Chromes in the Parker Variant did ok. I saw the Bics in the drawer this morning and thought "huh, supposed to be very sharp. chrome and platinum coating. I do well individually with both of those. heck, why not?". I don't have a ton of my top blades left unfortunately. I got rid of the majority of my blade collection when I had divested myself of all DE razors a month and a half or so ago. Most of what I have left are partially used tucks and some blades I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy (I'm fairly certain I have 8 or 9 Graham Field blades in a plastic dispenser, besides the one that Jim gave me). The coatings, if correct for the beard, should allow the blade to cleanly slice through without flexing. To be totally honest, I don't think the injector blades have the right coatings for my beard. They're just so rigid that they won't flex and will cut the whisker no matter what. I'm still working on pressure and angle with them so that the blade doesn't slide down the whiskers to skin level.

The notion of guard span, blade exposure, gap and all of those parameters gets tossed out the window with injectors. I will try to take a picture later today of my I-1 and I-2 injectors with blades loaded. These two injectors seemingly have similar heads but the shave is completely different feeling. The I-2 feels like somewhere between an E and a G in blade feel (the more aggressive injectors are the Es and Gs), while the I-1 feels like one of the very late model "mild" razors. The entire difference is in the amount of blade that is exposed by the cap. The I-2 looks like the G and E in what I'm calling "blade reveal", while the I-1 covers nearly all of the blade. This doesn't seem like it should actually make any difference at all, since you don't really shave with the cap flat against the face. Yet, there is a significant difference. I can't explain it.

And an injector that is notoriously aggressive, the Personna Floating Head, seems almost like a ***** cat in comparison to the E, G and I-2 with blade feel. It is a very weird razor, basically the direct cartridge precursor, with a spring loaded head that allows the head to "give" if too much pressure is applied. Most gents state they notice the head feature "engaging" on the ATG pass, but since I don't really go ATG except on my chin, I've never really noticed it. Now that I've played with the DEs enough to satisfy myself with them, I can play around more with my injectors, especially the more "aggressive" feeling ones. None of them come even close to the blade feel of the Schone or deliver as rough of a shave as the Schone or the NEW SC did today.

Yep, I'm lazy. DEs are definitely more difficult to shave with and I can't take the time to mess around with all of the blades and options that exist there. Something very comforting in picking up an injector and knowing that I only have a few blade options, and that I'll easily get 12+ shaves with it. And they'll be minimum weeper shaves, with little irritation and no chance of ingrowns. And always a DFS, even without any skin stretching.

Of note on my prep: I've been showering and washing my face with my normal face soap before every shave. My beard is essentially as wet as it can be, the whiskers the softest they ever will be. And even then, the DE blades hit the whisker and flex some. I guess the few gray whiskers I've seen might mean the beard is just going to get tougher? Oh goodie...

 

[Johnnynroy]

Sounds like good experiments and a well considered, rational plan. After all, the bottom line is a good shave.

View attachment 891535

I play around with razors and experiment to a degree some (my wife for sure) see as in the ad nauseam range. I see it as interesting and fun and adventuresome. Regardless, there are several kits always available, dependable, and easy enough. The injectors are very high on that list + easy + fast enough + unlikely to draw blood even if I thrown them around with reckless abandon.
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Would you mind listing in order of your preference the double edged razors you've tried and think highly enough of to list?

There aren't many DE razors which I've tried which in my view of them hold a candle to the injectors, but the ones I really like are very rigid. I'm not sure you've tried any of these.

• My best Old Type (how could you have tried it?).
• My Schaeffer (one shave convinced me).
• The RR SLOC.

I not saying you should try these razors. You might hate them, Joel. Of these three DE razors, the only one you can buy off the shelf and get a known perfect example is the RR SLOC. The Schaeffer is certainly a project (getting the Segal Blade clones made is an undertaking), but boy does it shave nicely.

Injectors are great.

Happy shaves,

Jim

I know you didn’t ask for this, but to remember which ones seem “worthwhile” I need to list all of them out (it’s absurd):

EJ DE89
Maggard Slant
Maggard V2OC
Maggard V3a
RazoRock OLD Type
Parker Variant
Baili TTO (super speed clone)
RazoRock Baby Smooth
RazoRock German 37 slant
Stirling DE89 clone head with MR7 handle
Schone
Pre War Tech
Schick Krona TTO
Gillette NEW SC

Of these, my order of preference would be:
Pre War Tech/RazoRock OLD Type/Parker Variant (these are my favorite three, pre war only has one shave but it could be my favorite of them. I’ll know more somewhere in the future)
Schick Krona TTO
Stirling DE89 clone head on MR7 handle

These I liked at one point, but daily use didn’t work for me:
RazoRock German 37
RazoRock Baby Smooth
Baili TTO


And the rest:
Maggard V3a
Maggard V2OC
EJ DE89
Gillette NEW SC
Maggard Slant
Schone


The EJ DE89 never gave me a good shave. Somehow the Stirling DE89 clone did give me some decent shaves. I don’t understand how that could happen, but it did. The Maggard slant was a scary razor to use. The NEW SC came close to it, even though the blade wasn’t flexing as much. The Schone was scary because I didn’t know that I was cutting skin until after a stroke when the weepers would sprout up. I only have the Schick, NEW SC, and Pre War Tech for DEs currently. I only have one shave in with the Schick and Tech, but they’re among the best DEs I’ve used as you can see. The RR OLD Type didn’t clamp close enough to the edge so there was more free blade exposed. It seemed to flex a bit too much.

I’ve tried many more razors than listed, all SEs. Injectors have worked the best for me there. RazoRock Hawk V2 in the AC format. GEM 1912 in that format. Otherwise razors haven’t worked out very well for me. Thank goodness for the injectors lol.



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