I just picked up a razor from Takeshi in Honolulu. So I watched a youtube video of him honing a razor on a jnat. He leads with the spine; the edge trailing. That is typically how we strop. So he is "stropping" the blade on the stone. He says that it is your choice and it does not matter which way you hone. I'm thinking that may be less aggressive and yields a smoother edge? Anyone do this? Comments?
The "other" way to hone
- Thread starter Eastcoast30
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Interesting, if done spine leading laps before, but never really thought they did much of anything. I’d be interested to hear what others say!
My feeling is that it would create a tiny burr, which would be pushed over by the beard hairs and not give a smooth shave, but I have no real evidence to back that up.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
I do a bit of both. When starting to set a bevel, it is spine leading. Towards the end of the bevel set it is edge leading. Working my up through whetstones and/or lapping film it is edge leading. Final progress through diamond pasted balsa strops in is spine leading.
Works well for me.
Works well for me.
I've been finishing on a Naniwa 12k with a few spine leading diagonal laps lately. It has struck me that the way I use my 12k that I could easily cut my stone in half and have two 4" x 2-3/4" stones.
I watch a knife maker who recommends that you do edge trailing for sharpening and honing as a beginner before going with an edge leading. Much of my honing employes back-and-forth laps, so it combines edge trailing and edge leading, which seems very common from all of the videos I've watched. AFAIK, sharpening can go either way, but I believe edge leading is more aggressive.
As for a burr, that sounds to me as apexing, which is completely normal and you just turn the razor over and do light strokes to remove the burr. Then rinse and repeat until the burr is gone.
As for a burr, that sounds to me as apexing, which is completely normal and you just turn the razor over and do light strokes to remove the burr. Then rinse and repeat until the burr is gone.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Spine leading honing is more popular in Europe than here, so it would seem that the end result is not immensely different.
There is a website (ScienceofSharp) where the poster took a bunch of super-magnified photos of razor edges during honing. His claim is that edge-trailing strokes produce a slightly narrower edge width for a given whetstone. Following this, on my higher grit stones I typically start with edge leading, then switch to edge trailing, then do a few pull strokes to remove whatever burr developed, and close with a few edge trailing angled strokes (this last part is something that @Slash McCoy has recommended). It seems to work. Does it work better than just using the exact same # of edge trailing or edge leading strokes alone? I don’t know.
I believe he also argued that edge-trailing strokes tend to microscopically flow more metal into and beyond the edge region. This makes sense since this is what a burr is and I think there is general agreement that edge trailing strokes are better at generating a burr.
I believe he also argued that edge-trailing strokes tend to microscopically flow more metal into and beyond the edge region. This makes sense since this is what a burr is and I think there is general agreement that edge trailing strokes are better at generating a burr.
- Thread starter
- #10
Takeshi has emailed me in response to that video. He now believes it is better to lead with the edge:
"You might see very old video.
I am still learning and improving sharpening skill and knowlege.
What I understanding is to be better sharpening toward to the edge side.
The two main reasons are;
1. it is easy to remove the burr
2. if we sharpen razor toward to the spine side, the spine side and sinogi line get more pressure and wear more on the spine and sinogi line side.
That means what it is more possibility to change the original angle of the razor
Therefore, I think that it is better to sharpen toward to the edge side."
"You might see very old video.
I am still learning and improving sharpening skill and knowlege.
What I understanding is to be better sharpening toward to the edge side.
The two main reasons are;
1. it is easy to remove the burr
2. if we sharpen razor toward to the spine side, the spine side and sinogi line get more pressure and wear more on the spine and sinogi line side.
That means what it is more possibility to change the original angle of the razor
Therefore, I think that it is better to sharpen toward to the edge side."
I think edge leading will be more effective in removing metal, without causing a fin edge. I would typically start with circles which is of course both, and then end with a few X-strokes edge leading on the lower grids. On my 12k I would start with circles, move to edge leading X-strokes and finish with a few spine leading X-strokes and pull strokes, before moving on to the diamond pasted balsa stropping.
I once watched a video in which the guy explains that edge leading will cause micro chipping of the edge, and he only uses spine leading strokes. In some ways his logic makes sense, but in practise I think you risk developing a fin edge. If I remember correctly, he lost credibility with me when he said stropping on clean leather should be limited to very few strokes because it will round your edge.
I don't see myself as a hone-meister, I think stropping on pasted balsa makes up for deficiencies in my honing technique and gets me to the laser edges I like.
I respect and admire guys that can get a comfortable shave from rubbing on a rock only, but it's not for me. Tried a few times, failed every time.
I once watched a video in which the guy explains that edge leading will cause micro chipping of the edge, and he only uses spine leading strokes. In some ways his logic makes sense, but in practise I think you risk developing a fin edge. If I remember correctly, he lost credibility with me when he said stropping on clean leather should be limited to very few strokes because it will round your edge.
I don't see myself as a hone-meister, I think stropping on pasted balsa makes up for deficiencies in my honing technique and gets me to the laser edges I like.
I respect and admire guys that can get a comfortable shave from rubbing on a rock only, but it's not for me. Tried a few times, failed every time.
It certainly wasn't as easy as it looked to figure out how to get my first shavable edge and I'm still refining it, but I think in the end it's something you either like to do or don't. I really enjoy honing so I'm all for taking the time to get better, but a lot of people just hate sharpening, and you see this a lot in woodworking as well. There are woodworkers who enjoy it and those who would rather have someone else deal with the toil. As James Hamilton, aka Stumpy Nubs, would say, there are guys who really love sharpening and they shouldn't be allowed around sharp objects.
Yeah, I am one of "them", the ones that hate blunt stuff. Since childhood I was sharpening knives, scissors, chisels, axes, now razors.
I also love cooking, and nothing spoils my enjoyment in the kitchen more than a blunt knife. My best friend's wife loves it when I go visiting for a weekend, not because of my sexy body, but because she knows by the end of a weekend she will have sharp knives in the kitchen!
I enjoy sharpening too, and I have the scars to prove it lol.
Not an expert by any means
I have tried it several times, did not really notice a difference.
This sparked some controversy a few years ago, got heated at other forums,
Murray Carter, who has forgotten more about steel and sharpening than I will ever know, hones spine leading.
He is studied bladesmithing under Sensei Sakemoto and became the 17th Generation Yoshimoto Bladesmith.
Great video, always love seeing a master at work. This makes me wonder how Rob Cosman would sharpen a razor.
