The MMA Thread

[SmoovD]

Will watch the video tonight.

Watching in real time, it appeared to me that GSP stopped cranking on the kimura and looked to the ref-almost as if for some relief. Then it appeared that he was taking a bit of respite before giving it another go. That is when he lost the hold. Was Hardy fighting it? Heck yes. Did GSP want to come off looking like Aoki? Probably not.

 

[The Nid Hog]

That wasn't just boring to the casual fan...

I like GSP...its hard not to like him. But I don't know if I can watch another 5 rounds of takedowns followed by Georges break dancing on his opponent...theres just no drama, no suspense. And I'm not saying he's a lay and pray artist, because he isn't...he passes the guard, throws subs constantly, throws strikes from every position...its just we know he's gonna hit that takedown, and as soon as he hits that takedown, we all know how its gonna go...

Fights where you know who's gonna win are only interesting if theres a likelihood of a spectacular knockout...thats what makes Anderson Silva fights against outclassed opponents interesting. But Georges has gotten boring. Its not his fault, and I can't blame him for doing what works for him...but I think its unfortunate for the division.

I agree with you completely. In fact, I can't even say that I like St. Pierre, but he certainly gave a superb demonstration of his abilities. Hardy showed a lot by refusing to submit too. All that having been said, it was a boring fight. It's like GSP has a wire in his ear connecting him to a risk assessment team. He knows his opponents' weaknesses and he goes about exploiting them in the safest possible way. He's been talking a lot lately about fighting a beautiful fight. I think that his idea of beautiful is flawless execution taken against the path of least resistance--something like an instructional demonstration. It's undeniably true that he does this against outstanding opponents. For me, I just don't think that this is beautiful.

 

[thecoalition]

while i agree with the fact that some people like gsp are basically going to own everyone in that steps into the ring with them i look at it like he has 2 choices - continue owning everyone or move up a division and possibly (but unlikely) get wrecked.
i mean penn did that and upset matt hughes the first time they fought then the second time hughes took out penn horribly. i mean...for the fighters its a tough choice.
for the fans we just want to see action. imo - watching gsp doing ground work is more impressive than the big knockouts from people like silva. he's technical and i'd rather see skill then random punches thrown and a lucky catch.

 

[thecoalition]

Will watch the video tonight.
Was Hardy fighting it? Heck yes. Did GSP want to come off looking like Aoki? Probably not.

oh meant to add this - if you watch that portion of the fight in slow mo - im pretty positive that hardy is double jointed or can pop his shoulders out because if you see that - that on any normal person was a dislocated shoulder. i think gsp was looking at the ref for more of a "*** DO YOU SEE THIS!?" reaction.

 

[Mejnoon]

Will watch the video tonight.

Watching in real time, it appeared to me that GSP stopped cranking on the kimura and looked to the ref-almost as if for some relief. Then it appeared that he was taking a bit of respite before giving it another go. That is when he lost the hold. Was Hardy fighting it? Heck yes. Did GSP want to come off looking like Aoki? Probably not.

He did stop cranking, but I'm not sure if he was looking at the ref or at his corner...he'd cranked it as far as he could and he was trying to figure out why it wasn't working. Eventually he let it go and moved on to something else.

Aoki looked bad not because he broke the arm, he looked bad because he stuck his finger in Hirota's face and gloated about it. GSP was trying to end the fight, and he showed absolutely no regard for Hardy's bones and joints in doing so.

I agree with you completely. In fact, I can't even say that I like St. Pierre, but he certainly gave a superb demonstration of his abilities. Hardy showed a lot by refusing to submit too. All that having been said, it was a boring fight. It's like GSP has a wire in his ear connecting him to a risk assessment team. He knows his opponents' weaknesses and he goes about exploiting them in the safest possible way. He's been talking a lot lately about fighting a beautiful fight. I think that his idea of beautiful is flawless execution taken against the path of least resistance--something like an instructional demonstration. It's undeniably true that he does this against outstanding opponents. For me, I just don't think that this is beautiful.

I hear what you're saying. I think his style can be beautiful, but I also agree that his unwillingness to take risks diminishes my level of interest greatly. I can't blame him...but like I said, I think its unfortunate for the division. I want to see competitive title fights.

while i agree with the fact that some people like gsp are basically going to own everyone in that steps into the ring with them i look at it like he has 2 choices - continue owning everyone or move up a division and possibly (but unlikely) get wrecked.
i mean penn did that and upset matt hughes the first time they fought then the second time hughes took out penn horribly. i mean...for the fighters its a tough choice.
for the fans we just want to see action. imo - watching gsp doing ground work is more impressive than the big knockouts from people like silva. he's technical and i'd rather see skill then random punches thrown and a lucky catch.

I disagree about your comments on GSP and Silva. Silva's striking is supremely technical...theres nothing random or lucky about it. His ability to move and control distance, his speed and precision, his impeccable timing and the kind of power that comes from perfect technique all take years to develop. There probably isn't a more technical striker in mma. GSP is highly technical, but I don't think his grappling technique comes anywhere close to the level of Silva's striking. He gets by on athleticism quite a bit, and he hasn't mastered a lot of the little things. Watch the video I posted earlier...he goes over the things he did wrong with Greg Jackson and his BJJ coach in the locker room immediately after the fight.

oh meant to add this - if you watch that portion of the fight in slow mo - im pretty positive that hardy is double jointed or can pop his shoulders out because if you see that - that on any normal person was a dislocated shoulder. i think gsp was looking at the ref for more of a "*** DO YOU SEE THIS!?" reaction.

I'm sure that kimura was uncomfortable, but it wasn't that bad. Its really, really difficult to tap someone with a kimura in an mma fight. I've seen guys get their shoulder cranked worse than that in the gym and in bjj/grappling tournaments without tapping. Part of the problem is he wasn't finishing it exactly right...that, and some guys are just really flexible in their shoulders.

 

[SmoovD]

Anyone catch UFN21 Wednesday night? I was on homewaork duty during the first two fights so I missed those. I did catch the last two fights though. Nelson just cracks me up. I don't think his hands are enough to make a run but does he have enough on the ground to negate the grappling of the current crop of HW? And Florian looked as good as Gomi looked bad. I hope Gomi is game to stick it out a bit to see if he still has anything left.

 

[thecoalition]

@ Mejnoon: After re-reading what I wrote I realized how unclear I was.
It comes down to I know how technical alot of fighters are, but some are just boring to watch to me because they either don't get a real challenge or they are so dead on that no one can stop them. In particular, A. silva. He is a beast and I do love watching his strike defense because his avoidance looks like it is done in slow-mo. However, he is often boring to watch because every fight I have seen him in doesn't last more than 45 secs to 2mins. I am, however, extremely amped to see the april 10th fight against Damien Maia (spelling?). I think at this point he is going to be one of the tougher challenges for Silva. Then again, people thought Griffin was too. Either way it will be exciting to see that fight and then find out who Silva or Maia will be fighting next (im hoping machida). Short answer - alot of good fighters are boring to me bc they are not pushed to do anything due to lack of a challenge.

@SmoovD - only caught the Ken-Flo fight which was 3 rounds of dominant and precise striking by Florian. The third ended in a beautiful rear naked by Florian too. I was less than impressed with Gomi. I was hoping for at least a tidbit more aggressiveness than what he showed. To me he was switching alot of stance and staying low but looked very timid until about halfway through the fight. He really only put out 2 solid hits that connected.

Did everyone catch the last trial fight in TUF? That guy "the misfit" looked like skeletor after he got his nosed punched through the back of his skull!

 

[The Nid Hog]

Anyone catch UFN21 Wednesday night? I was on homewaork duty during the first two fights so I missed those. I did catch the last two fights though. Nelson just cracks me up. I don't think his hands are enough to make a run but does he have enough on the ground to negate the grappling of the current crop of HW? And Florian looked as good as Gomi looked bad. I hope Gomi is game to stick it out a bit to see if he still has anything left.

Yeah, I watched UFN last night, then I watched a broadcast of Dream 11 that I had DVR'd this afternoon. For the most part, I think that the Japanese fighters need to step up their training--improve their conditioning and broaden their skillset. Pride is receding into the past and they have to match what's going on today.

 

[SRock]

No.

This is a fascinating video that I think any mma fan will enjoy, but particularly for the guys that think GSP let go for Hardy's sake. He didn't...he tried desperately to finish that fight, and Hardy refused to give up. Don't sell either guy short...GSP is a competitor who fights to finish, and Hardy is incredibly durable and has the heart of a champion.

Speaking of champions, I think what you see in this video is a BIG part of the reason GSP is one. He just dominated his opponent in a title defense, and the first thing he does is try to figure out what he did wrong. You gotta love this guy.

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=videoPlayer.home&gid=79776

I agree

Anyone catch UFN21 Wednesday night? I was on homewaork duty during the first two fights so I missed those. I did catch the last two fights though. Nelson just cracks me up. I don't think his hands are enough to make a run but does he have enough on the ground to negate the grappling of the current crop of HW? And Florian looked as good as Gomi looked bad. I hope Gomi is game to stick it out a bit to see if he still has anything left.

Nope missed it.

Yeah, I watched UFN last night, then I watched a broadcast of Dream 11 that I had DVR'd this afternoon. For the most part, I think that the Japanese fighters need to step up their training--improve their conditioning and broaden their skillset. Pride is receding into the past and they have to match what's going on today.

I also agree with this.

 

[Mejnoon]

@ Mejnoon: After re-reading what I wrote I realized how unclear I was.
It comes down to I know how technical alot of fighters are, but some are just boring to watch to me because they either don't get a real challenge or they are so dead on that no one can stop them. In particular, A. silva. He is a beast and I do love watching his strike defense because his avoidance looks like it is done in slow-mo. However, he is often boring to watch because every fight I have seen him in doesn't last more than 45 secs to 2mins. I am, however, extremely amped to see the april 10th fight against Damien Maia (spelling?). I think at this point he is going to be one of the tougher challenges for Silva. Then again, people thought Griffin was too. Either way it will be exciting to see that fight and then find out who Silva or Maia will be fighting next (im hoping machida). Short answer - alot of good fighters are boring to me bc they are not pushed to do anything due to lack of a challenge.

I definitely understand that...dominance does tend to get boring. I'm hoping Maia can make it a fight with Silva...my worry is that he just doesn't have the takedowns to put Silva in a position where he can threaten him. We'll see though...his submission game is as tricky as Silva's striking, we just might see something spectacular.

I thought the fight nite was excellent, I enjoyed every fight. Pearson/Siver was awesome...those are two guys I hadn't take much notice of, but I'll be paying attention in the future.

Kenny picked Gomi apart. I kinda think the run of dominance he had in pride, when he was knocking everyone out, may have been bad for Gomi. He doesn't do anything but slug anymore...he used to be a little more technical, he'd box, mix in takedowns, etc...now he just swings for the fences. That doesn't work against guys like Florian.

 

[xivex]

UFN 21 was nice. Gomi looked, well...meh. Florian looked pretty good...still, none are going to be able to give BJ Penn a run for his money. Penn, like GSP, and Anderson Silva, is on another level from his competition. I don't think there is anyone who can beat those 3 other than themselves (ie not training hard or not being fight ready on fight night).

On another note, who is stoked to see Lesnar's return in Lesnar vs. Carwin (probably be in July). Man that is gonna be a brawl! I cannot wait.

X

 

[SRock]

On another note, who is stoked to see Lesnar's return in Lesnar vs. Carwin (probably be in July). Man that is gonna be a brawl! I cannot wait.

X

I am totally stoked for this fight. It has the potential to be either an explosive brawl or a five round snoozer, I hope for the former.

 

[Sullybob]

I am totally stoked for this fight. It has the potential to be either an explosive brawl or a five round snoozer, I hope for the former.

I feel the same way. I don't think its going to last long. Both guys are to strong and hit too hard for five rounds. I think the win comes from either a KO or GnP.

 

[SmoovD]

If Carwin can stop Lesnar's takedowns I don't see this going to the ground.

 

[TimmyBoston]

Any thoughts on UFC 112 coming up?

 

[SRock]

I think the win comes from either a KO or GnP.

This goes without saying. I don't see either of these guys winning this particular fight by submission.

If Carwin can stop Lesnar's takedowns I don't see this going to the ground.

This also goes without saying. Carwin has all of the advantage standing so why would he let it get to the ground. Now the question is, can he stop the takedown?

Any thoughts on UFC 112 coming up?

As far as the main card is concerned:

Silva, Penn, Hughes are winners.

I think the Etim/Dos Anjos and Grove/Munos fights are likely too close to call.

 

[Sullybob]

This goes without saying. I don't see either of these guys winning this particular fight by submission.



This also goes without saying. Carwin has all of the advantage standing so why would he let it get to the ground. Now the question is, can he stop the takedown?



As far as the main card is concerned:

Silva, Penn, Hughes are winners.

I think the Etim/Dos Anjos and Grove/Munos fights are likely too close to call.

I didn't say it but I meant to add that I really don't see the Carwin Lesnar fight going to a decision.


I'm not even excited to see Silva or BJ fight. I think that they are both going to totally dominate their opponents.

 

[SRock]

I didn't say it but I meant to add that I really don't see the Carwin Lesnar fight going to a decision.

Actually that was my fear when I said it will be a great fight or a snoozer. A snoozer would be when the unstoppable force meets the immovable object. A stalemate that would result in a 25 minute snoozer.

 

[Soopercat]

On another note, who is stoked to see Lesnar's return in Lesnar vs. Carwin (probably be in July). Man that is gonna be a brawl! I cannot wait.

X

I'm most definitely looking forward to seeing Carwin blast Lesnar from the hop. Brock is going to get knocked the hell out. Lesnar hasn't fought a heavy weight yet, nor has he been punch in the face by a true heavyweight. I recon he will crumple like a sad sack paper bag. All his opponents where under sized fighters with no real punching power. Mir isn't a natural 265 nor does he have the power of one. He is a wanna be 230 creatine machine. There really should be a 240 cut off for the real beasts. I thought Shane was going to Gong Mir in the second, but he was outclassed/powered on the feet from the start.

I feel bad for the Cain Valasquez type fighter who is going to end up getting a Brock Lesnar on his way up to Carwin in the future.

Kind regards,

 

[TimmyBoston]

Actually that was my fear when I said it will be a great fight or a snoozer. A snoozer would be when the unstoppable force meets the immovable object. A stalemate that would result in a 25 minute snoozer.

I see your point, but my gut says that won't happen. Lesnar's too aggressive of a man. Most likely Carwin is too. These guys are both beasts. I don't think either will be cautious. I think they'll both be going for the fences at all times.