The Military Backhand

[Ray Zorblade]

First of all, I'm a retired military guy and a member of the VFW, so don't think for a second that I'm anti-military.

I do notice, however, a lot of posts that I would think insult other members of the forum who have not served. I think it would be hard for someone who has not served to bring this up, so I am.

I'm talking about things like a signature line (of a highly reputable member) that says, "A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America " for an amount of "up to and including my life." That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it." To me, that implies that if you aren't a vet, you don't have honor. I think he means well and it offers praise to the military, but doesn't it sting a bit if you aren't in the club?

Today, while reading about honemeisters, I came across this quote: "...is also a patriot, He offered to hone all of my blades for free in the future because of the fact that I am Active Duty Military, I salute you Ray." Again, it may be well intended, but is that what makes someone a patriot? Providing free services to the military? So if you charge a fee, you're what?

There are also the "veteran" tags, the vets forum, PIFS for military only, etc. To alll of these, I also say I appreciate the intent, but due to their exclusionary nature, it seems to me that they detract from the "brotherhood" aspect of this forum. For me, as a vet, it's embarrassing. I volunteered for service. I'm proud of my twenty years. I was paid well...I still am. That's enough for me.

There are plenty of other jobs that people risk there lives to benefit society in general. They don't seem to get this kind of special attention.

Anyway, it's a simple question really, and answering yes doesn't have to mean that you don't appreciate the military. Do you ever feel like you are getting backhanded?

 

[RexHavoc]

I can only say it doesn't bother me in the least.

 

[stobes21]

As someone who has never served in the military I respect those who have. I believe it is an honorable career, but I don't think a uniform automatically makes a person a hero. There are plenty of heroes who have served and are currently serving, but to consider everyone who wears a uniform a hero I believe devalues the term for those truly extraordinary men and women. A columnist in the local paper here recently did an article on just that.

That being said, I don't feel disrespected by the accolades put on members of the military. I would rather see military service receive too much praise and respect than not enough. I don't see putting military service on a pedestal as in any way putting me or my non-service down.

 

[DSFC]

There are plenty of heroes who have served and are currently serving, but to consider everyone who wears a uniform a hero I believe devalues the term for those truly extraordinary men and women.

This is absolutely true.

 

[RBE17]

I'm not in the military, nor have I ever served. The instances you've described don't bother me in the least. In fact, I'm glad they're done because in my humble opinion the service that these fine men and women volunteered for needs to be recognized a little more.

 

[Unknownsoldier]

First of all, I'm a retired military guy and a member of the VFW, so don't think for a second that I'm anti-military.

I do notice, however, a lot of posts that I would think insult other members of the forum who have not served. I think it would be hard for someone who has not served to bring this up, so I am.

I'm talking about things like a signature line (of a highly reputable member) that says, "A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America " for an amount of "up to and including my life." That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it." To me, that implies that if you aren't a vet, you don't have honor. I think he means well and it offers praise to the military, but doesn't it sting a bit if you aren't in the club?

Not really....

Today, while reading about honemeisters, I came across this quote: "...is also a patriot, He offered to hone all of my blades for free in the future because of the fact that I am Active Duty Military, I salute you Ray." Again, it may be well intended, but is that what makes someone a patriot? Providing free services to the military? So if you charge a fee, you're what?

There are also the "veteran" tags, the vets forum, PIFS for military only, etc. To alll of these, I also say I appreciate the intent, but due to their exclusionary nature, it seems to me that they detract from the "brotherhood" aspect of this forum. For me, as a vet, it's embarrassing. I volunteered for service. I'm proud of my twenty years. I was paid well...I still am. That's enough for me.

There are plenty of other jobs that people risk there lives to benefit society in general. They don't seem to get this kind of special attention.

Anyway, it's a simple question really, and answering yes doesn't have to mean that you don't appreciate the military. Do you ever feel like you are getting backhanded?

I'm not in the dangerous sector (well there is occasion I've been in places I may not have gone but thats the exception), but I've been involved in bits and bobs, and would be 100% willing to do dangerous things if needed, but thats me, I'm happy just getting on

Just after the bombings in London I was in full uniform on my way up there (I think it was day +4, as I wasn't near enough to be considered for first call), I had people give up their seats on the train (weirdest moment ever, getting smiled at on public transport....), etc. really great, and I was very chuffed, but it wasn't necessary, I didn't get into the BRCS for reward or "admiration" (surely no one has ever admired me when I've been covered in sick.... LOL). I've gotten a couple of letters of gratitude, and as I mentioned above gotten a couple of seats offered to me, but the real buzz is having someone you've helped say "Thank You" (biggest buzz I've probably ever got from two words). I'm proud to have done what I've done, but I did it for me, and for others, not for any reward.

But to answer you're question, no it doesn't bother me, if those guys want to show their appreciation, thats cool, it's up to them. I don't feel slurred or slandered by it.

ATB,
Tom

 

[petr]

Sue sent some guys in my unit free aftershave - right to one of the most remote places on earth. They had Saint Charles Lavender Splash when they had no running water. She did them a helluva favor. They appreciated it a helluva lot.

I think that sort of thing is honorable. Whether you have a problem with it or not.

The problem with most real grunts who served is they don't want any recognition. Maybe that is where you are coming from?

Personally I like to know who I am talking with, unless you are some numbnuts burnbag officer and then I wish otherwise. (CWO's not included).

Carry on.

 

[rickw]

I'm a Vietnam era vet. I'm not qualified to join the VFW because I was in the reference lab on Okinawa instead of on one of the calibration teams that traveled throughout the far east. I volunteered and was out before I was twenty. Had I not volunteered, I never would have been drafted because of the industries that I worked in. I was involved with AIM9 Sidewinders, AH-64A Apache, and various forms of radar. I remember the colleges with the antiwar demonstrations. That only happened once where I went to college. Those students were told that if it happened again, that they would be looking for a different school to attend.

Vets are a special group. Many strangers feel comfortable with each other because of a shared experience. I've had people talk to me about experiences that they didn't share with their spouses. I've also talked to a former LuRRP with PTSD. He had been with the 173rd and I had known all of the riggers in that unit at one time.

That people do special things for vets is their way of showing support. During WWII it was common. From 1965 to 1975 it wasn't. I'm glad that that attitude has returned.

"A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America " for an amount of "up to and including my life." We all did. I've been to Arlington, Gettysburg and drive by Westwood regularly.

As to patriotism and honor, there are people that know neither. I wouldn't, however, expect to find them here.

 

[Amer]

This is a sticky subject. Stobes, that article is the first thing that came to mind when I saw this, just because I read it yesterday. What a coincidence. Not all vets are heroes. Honorable service earns them an amount of respect, but I think pretty much anyone earns respect if they are honorable in their dealings in daily life. I'm sure there are also a lot of vets that earned a lot of credit for service that have done some really bad things afterwards that have ruined their respectability.

The simple fact is, a lot of these folks put their life on the line on a daily basis while serving in service of this country, and either directly or indirectly in service of us. This is a lot more than we can say for a lot of people that we've never met. I don't think this should mean you need to give them extra perks or treat them differently or what not, but they deserve some iota of gratitude. By knowing they've served, you immediately know what that person has done for you, whereas if I walked up to one of you you'd have no reason to feel such towards me. I think that's really all it means. My Dad served in Vietnam, out in the bush as an infantryman. I didn't really know about it until I was probably 9 or 10 and we didn't really talk about it until I was in high school and took an entire class about the Vietnam War. There's no mementos or anything, just an unmarked box in the basement. Growing up all I knew was he was really into war movies. No inkling of service, and this from a guy that was nominated to West Point (didn't go, but that's another story), so you know he was excited about the service at one point. The one thing that always stood out to me is he told me when he flew back home there was just nothing. He came home and it just seemed like everyone wanted to put it out of sight and out of mind. He didn't get thanks, he didn't get any perks or preferential treatment. He's never been sick or anything but as far as I know he's never received any sort of benefits from VA or any other veterans organizations, and I'm not sure he'd ever use them unless he absolutely had to. I take that back, I think the GI Bill paid for his master's. Sometimes I wonder if he even thinks of himself as a veteran, all because no one really ever acknowledged his service. He was drafted and it was just something he did and came home and that was it.

That's neither here nor there. All of the clubs and quotes and whatnot here don't bother me. I don't feel excluded or that I'm looked down upon for not having served. I'd like to think everyone in the US does their part to make this country what it is, but I thank the combat vets and those supporting them for risking their lives for me.

 

[richmondesi]

No, I don't feel backhanded by the public recognition and displays of appreciation of the military members here.

The quote that you referenced in the OP from Slaglerock's sig is among my favorite quotes

 

[Ray Zorblade]

The problem with most real grunts who served is they don't want any recognition. Maybe that is where you are coming from?

Personally I like to know who I am talking with, unless you are some numbnuts burnbag officer and then I wish otherwise. (CWO's not included).

Yes, I was an officer, so as you requested, I won't tell you who you are talking with.

I agree with your first statement, but guilty is probably a better way to describe how I feel. Kind of like you said, there are those who serve(d) and those who really serve(d). I'm not missing any body parts and I don't have any psychological issues (related to my service anyway).

I'll also clarify that I don't have any problem with the praise or freebies people get, I just don't want anyone to get the impression we are some sort of snobs. So far, it sounds like its a non-issue.

 

[Blondie]

I served in the USMC. I did it for my reasons, and really don't feel I need a veterans tag, or anything like that. I am not the type that did it for glory or recognition thought. I was just a kid with no confidence and wanted to see if I could get through boot camp. I did.

As far as the Active duty pif's I think they are great, and anything done to make an individuals day a little brighter when they are thousands of miles away from home is a gesture only the pif'er and pif'ee can truly understand. Would you feel backhanded for the newbie only pif's?

 

[Bushranger]

I'm not from the United States of America, but the USA has affected my military career and experiences in life since 2001. Not all veterans/active service/members/patriots that visit B&B have been, presently are, or will be USA Americans. B&B is a global village. I love that. At times it is evidenced this is either not recognised nor appreciated, and periodically needs mentioning. Perhaps a 'foreign' tag could be created for us non-USA types. just joking ~ Australian Humour (and spelling). Not a bad discussion.

 

[richmondesi]

I'm not from the United States of America, but the USA has affected my military career and experiences in life since 2001. Not all veterans/active service/members/patriots that visit B&B have been, presently are, or will be USA Americans. B&B is a global village. I love that. At times it is evidenced this is either not recognised nor appreciated, and periodically needs mentioning. Perhaps a 'foreign' tag could be created for us non-USA types. just joking ~ Australian Humour (and spelling). Not a bad discussion.

Good point, Sir.

 

[luvmysuper]

First of all, I'm a retired military guy and a member of the VFW, so don't think for a second that I'm anti-military.

I do notice, however, a lot of posts that I would think insult other members of the forum who have not served. I think it would be hard for someone who has not served to bring this up, so I am.

I'm talking about things like a signature line (of a highly reputable member) that says, "A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America " for an amount of "up to and including my life." That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it." To me, that implies that if you aren't a vet, you don't have honor. I think he means well and it offers praise to the military, but doesn't it sting a bit if you aren't in the club?

Some serve in times of hardship, some serve in times of peace and tranquility. Often, where you serve and what you do is nothing more than the luck of the draw. You may serve a full term and see nothing more than an occassional mosquito bite. You may serve and a few short months after joining be killed at the hands of the enemy. That is what a "blank check" is.
I don't think anyone on this board thinks that only military members have honor, that is just too far fetched an idea for any of the intelligient folk here to swallow.

Today, while reading about honemeisters, I came across this quote: "...is also a patriot, He offered to hone all of my blades for free in the future because of the fact that I am Active Duty Military, I salute you Ray." Again, it may be well intended, but is that what makes someone a patriot? Providing free services to the military? So if you charge a fee, you're what?
There are also the "veteran" tags, the vets forum, PIFS for military only, etc. To alll of these, I also say I appreciate the intent, but due to their exclusionary nature, it seems to me that they detract from the "brotherhood" aspect of this forum. For me, as a vet, it's embarrassing. I volunteered for service. I'm proud of my twenty years. I was paid well...I still am. That's enough for me.

The gifts of services and the PIFs are a means of one individual to thank another. You may have been paid well, but I know many who are not. It is a sad thing when a member of our Armed Forces, ready to give his life on a moments notice, is eligible in most States for welfare assistance.

There are plenty of other jobs that people risk there lives to benefit society in general. They don't seem to get this kind of special attention.

Anyway, it's a simple question really, and answering yes doesn't have to mean that you don't appreciate the military. Do you ever feel like you are getting backhanded?

I have seen pleanty of PIFs for Firemen, Police Officers and such. When I saw those PIFs I didn't feel offended that I was excluded, I felt pleased that someone recognized the effort and sacrifice that these protectors of America have given us.

God Bless Our Service Men and Women.
God Bless those who support them and show gratitude, in whatever fashion that may be.
God Bless B&B for providing the platform for that gratitude to be expressed.

 

[Ray Zorblade]

Well...I think it's kind of funny how many of the responses are from active duty members or vets that think everything I mentioned is great. That's kind of my point to begin with. I'd like to hear the civilians saying the active duty/vets deserve more, rather than the active duty/vets saying they deserve more.

PM me if you are a civilian who isn't comfortable responding to this post publicly. I promise to honor your privacy.

 

[The Nid Hog]

Interesting post. I agree with you that it's unseemly for someone to look for something for nothing simply because they're on active duty or a vet. And you're also right in saying that not everybody in the military is a hero and not all heroes are in the military. At the same time, I don't see what the problem is with the honemaster story. If the honemaster wants to hone razors for free for soldiers, cowboys or astronauts, it seems to me like it's up to him. Likewise, if the owner of the razor wants to accept it, why not? I always thought that it was important to pay my way in life, but I'd be lying if I said that I returned every free beer that someone sent me when I was a young man in my dress blues.

As far as the vet tag goes, I don't see the harm in that. I got one because I have a job where I never see anybody else who served in the military and I live in a community where I rarely run into other vets. It think that it's nice to hear from other guys that I have that in common with. If people want to have doctor, lawyer, fireman or barber tags, that would be fine too.

The PIF thing? I think that there are other PIFs besides those for servicemen. And it would never occur to me to send a PIF to somebody in the military because I thought that he was a hero. You're absolutely right--Uncle Sam thanks you twice a month, whether you need it or not. I just remember how much a package meant to a lonely, homesick 19 year old and I like the idea of making somebody's day a little brighter. I don't think that's such a terrible thing. So, yeah, I think it's OK to send something out some kid somewhere. If I grew up on a small island or sailed with a fishing fleet when I was a boy, maybe I'd put together something for them too. It just so happens that I spent my youth in other ways and those things never occurred to me.

Anyway, instead of kvetching about the vet thing, why don't you do what it is that you think would be better in its place? Put together tags for real estate agents or investment bankers. Or leave it blank if you don't want anything. Set up a PIF for missionaries or somebody in the Peace Corps. Let a thousand flowers bloom.

 

[luvmysuper]

Well...I think it's kind of funny how many of the responses are from active duty members or vets that think everything I mentioned is great. That's kind of my point to begin with. I'd like to hear the civilians saying the active duty/vets deserve more, rather than the active duty/vets saying they deserve more.

PM me if you are a civilian who isn't comfortable responding to this post publicly. I promise to honor your privacy.

7 out of 12 people responding here have no veteran or active duty tag and say they don't feel that way.
The 5 who do never said they think they deserve "more".
The 5 who did respond mostly responded to particular aspects of your original post.
My response for example refuted the idea that only Military members were thanked for risking their lives when that is patently false.
It also referred to a signature quote that you inferred was offensive to non-military persons, and my response included an attempt to explain the "blank check" quote.
I don't see any vets or otherwise asserting that they "deserve more".

 

[gaseousclay]

Well...I think it's kind of funny how many of the responses are from active duty members or vets that think everything I mentioned is great. That's kind of my point to begin with. I'd like to hear the civilians saying the active duty/vets deserve more, rather than the active duty/vets saying they deserve more.

my father was in the air force for 20+ yrs and my brother just retired from the air force after 20 yrs of service. he went to kuwait during the first gulf war and was deployed to qatar before he retired. I know he wasn't in any immediate danger due to the nature of his work but he always told me he was prepared to fight if it ever came down to it. so, I think showing some respect to active duty or veterans is warranted. although, I also think that honor has to be earned and isn't something you're entitled to if you wear a uniform. it's the same in the civilian world as well.

 

[Go West Young Man]

Life is not a zero-sum game ..... recognizing the good works of one person doesn't mean you're denigrating what someone else does.