Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
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The Journal of a Backwards Professor
- Thread starter Rosseforp
- Start date
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- #962
My daughter picked them out 
- Thread starter
- #963
Sunday, November 29
Razor: Gillette Red Tip
Blade: Gillette Platinum(10)
Brush: Simpson PJ2
Soap: Vitos Extra Super Coco
ASL: the "Veg"
Tonight I remembered to put my scuttle on one side of the sink, and my water mug on the other side, no dunking the brush in the water mug and letting it soak by accident tonight. But I did hydrate the lather until the PJ2 was dripping.
When I first got my PJ2 I was disappointed in how much smaller it was than I had expected, even though I had heard Simpson brushes tended to be optimistic about their loft and know size. My first use it felt extremely plush, but it also had the backbone of an oak tree. It felt like a plush rock. So stiff I could not feel any scrub at all.
I got my first Omega Silver Tip at the same time, and it was the bees knees. Now the Simpson has started to break in, traded some of its backbone with scrub that is smooth and plush at the same time, and it is the bees knees now.
First pass N-S from sideburn to bottom of my neck both sides, then my soul patch and chin. The feedback is more pronounced than with my Slim, the blade feels like it is working harder. The Slim is definitely smoother.
Slim on #4 on left, Red Tip on right.
Second pass S-N from base of neck to chin, the nose to ear on my face and chin.
Third pass S-N face and chin, and N-S neck. I could feel the Red Tip still reducing stubble on my neck each pass.
The Witch hazel had some tingle, and the "Veg" burned for 10 seconds before cooling and letting the Nivea balm finish up.
There is redness in my cheeks and neck, the shave was close.
BBS face. My neck is slightly closer than last night's shave with my Slim, but I attribute that more to paying attention to my technique than the razor being more efficient.
The Slim on #4 wins again. The Gillette Platinum(10) still chugging along.
![20201129_195220[1].jpg](https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/attachments/20201129_195220-1-jpg.1188620/ "20201129_195220[1].jpg")
Razor: Gillette Red Tip
Blade: Gillette Platinum(10)
Brush: Simpson PJ2
Soap: Vitos Extra Super Coco
ASL: the "Veg"
Tonight I remembered to put my scuttle on one side of the sink, and my water mug on the other side, no dunking the brush in the water mug and letting it soak by accident tonight. But I did hydrate the lather until the PJ2 was dripping.
When I first got my PJ2 I was disappointed in how much smaller it was than I had expected, even though I had heard Simpson brushes tended to be optimistic about their loft and know size. My first use it felt extremely plush, but it also had the backbone of an oak tree. It felt like a plush rock. So stiff I could not feel any scrub at all.
I got my first Omega Silver Tip at the same time, and it was the bees knees. Now the Simpson has started to break in, traded some of its backbone with scrub that is smooth and plush at the same time, and it is the bees knees now.
First pass N-S from sideburn to bottom of my neck both sides, then my soul patch and chin. The feedback is more pronounced than with my Slim, the blade feels like it is working harder. The Slim is definitely smoother.
Slim on #4 on left, Red Tip on right.
Second pass S-N from base of neck to chin, the nose to ear on my face and chin.
Third pass S-N face and chin, and N-S neck. I could feel the Red Tip still reducing stubble on my neck each pass.
The Witch hazel had some tingle, and the "Veg" burned for 10 seconds before cooling and letting the Nivea balm finish up.
There is redness in my cheeks and neck, the shave was close.
BBS face. My neck is slightly closer than last night's shave with my Slim, but I attribute that more to paying attention to my technique than the razor being more efficient.
The Slim on #4 wins again. The Gillette Platinum(10) still chugging along.
As #4 appears to be "your" number on the Slim, Doug, it makes sense that you prefer it to the Red Tip which has a little blade exposure vs. the Slim's ±0 blade exposure. The Red Tip has a much bigger blade gap too.
I'm assuming you took the pics and drew the green lines "after" your shave.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
As #4 appears to be "your" number on the Slim, Doug, it makes sense that you prefer it to the Red Tip which has a little blade exposure vs. the Slim's ±0 blade exposure. The Red Tip has a much bigger blade gap too.
I'm assuming you took the pics and drew the green lines "after" your shave.
Which is which when it comes to the Red Tip and its siblings?
According to the Wiki page on blade gaps:
Gillette Super Speed Blue Tip: 0.58mm gap
Gillette Super Speed: 0.64mm gap
Gillette Super Speed Red Tip: 0.73mm gap
I'm glad to see "this chart should not be used as a general ranking of aggressiveness" on that page.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Regardless, one might assume the Red Tip should be the most "aggressive" of the three. What aggressive means - efficient, prone to biting you, both - being totally unknown unless defined by the person using the term. I've used none of these razors unless I used them in the 1960s and don't remember.
Are these the razors Gillette advertised as Light, Heavy, and Regular?
Happy shaves,
Jim
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Yep.
Good to know.
- Thread starter
- #970
To add to the confusion, this is from the GilletteAdjustable gap chart:
Also note Gillette has designed each and every one of the razors to provide about a “.003” difference from one setting to the next. That is the difference between a razor at any given setting and the setting above or below it will be about “.003”. This is true for all of the Gillette Adjustable models. If you don’t exactly see that in the Blade Gap Table, it is due to a slight measurement error. For those who care, the average standard deviation is .0072″/.183mm so considering the “Average Razor” and an average +/- 1 STDev as a significance threshold, only the Bottom Dials are significantly different than the rest of the adjustables.
Which means is essentially that a Blue Tip could be more aggressive than a Red Tip taking standard deviation into account.
Both of my A4 Red Tip and my A4 Flare Tip have a measured gap of .029"/.74mm. My Slim on #5 has a gap of .030"/76mm.
A4 Red Tip .029" gap with positive blade exposure.
A4 Flare Tip .029" gap with positive blade exposure.
Slim #5 .030" gap with positive blade exposure.
Because @Cal asked why I didn't show a picture of my Slim on #5.
Both my Z3 Flare Tip and my Slim #4 have a measured gap of .026"/.66mm.
Z3 Flare Tip with slightly positive blade exposure.
Slim #4 with Neutral Blade Exposure.
What does all of this mean?
Even though I initially thought I got a closer shave with my Red Tip than my Slim on #4, today confirmed the Slim on #4 does provide a longer lasting shave with more comfort.
The only razor in this group I have not used recently is my Z3 Flare Tip. My records show it is a consistent performer with Feather, Nacet and Gillette Platinum blades, so in the interest of conducting a fair experiment, my Z3 Flare Tip is the next razor in line, and both my A4 Red Tip and my A4 Flare Tip are now in the garage.
I'm still looking for a Blue Tip to complete the set, preferably an A4, but right now I am more interested in Fatboy. I just bought the LOTH a new dinette set, sofa, and bookcase at Mathis Brothers, so I might even find an Executive under the tree this year
- Thread starter
- #971
Tuesday, December 1
Razor: Gillette 54 Flare Tip
Blade: Gillette Platinum(11)
Brush: Simpson PJ2
Soap: AdP Colonia
ASL: the "Veg"
Tonight's shave was wonderful.
The aroma of the AdP Colonia is intoxicating as the lather builds into a velvety layer, the plushness of the PJ2 enhanced by the cushion.
As I started my downstroke on my first WTG pass I could feel the blade ever so slightly, a slight adjustment to a steeper angle provided the feel I was looking for.
The second layer of AdP was even more velvety than the first, a nose to ear face pass, and ATG neck.
With the PJ2 still full I brushed another velvety cushion of lather on and finished my face ATG, and neck WTG.
Of all three of my Super Speed razors, this one has provided the closest shave compared to my Slim on #4. While the 54 Flare Tip is a definite steep angle razor, the Slim prefers an angle closer to neutral. While the 54 Flare Tip feels more efficient than the Slim, 12 hours later the Slim on #4 shave is still BBS, the 54 Flare Tip is not.
I found a "shave binky" wiped my face off, cleaned my gear the splashed on Witch hazel, the "Veg", and Nivea balm, my face feels great.
The Slim on #4 is still the winner, by a slim margin. With a Gillette Platinum.
![20201201_230852[1].jpg](https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/attachments/20201201_230852-1-jpg.1189383/ "20201201_230852[1].jpg")
Razor: Gillette 54 Flare Tip
Blade: Gillette Platinum(11)
Brush: Simpson PJ2
Soap: AdP Colonia
ASL: the "Veg"
Tonight's shave was wonderful.
The aroma of the AdP Colonia is intoxicating as the lather builds into a velvety layer, the plushness of the PJ2 enhanced by the cushion.
As I started my downstroke on my first WTG pass I could feel the blade ever so slightly, a slight adjustment to a steeper angle provided the feel I was looking for.
The second layer of AdP was even more velvety than the first, a nose to ear face pass, and ATG neck.
With the PJ2 still full I brushed another velvety cushion of lather on and finished my face ATG, and neck WTG.
Of all three of my Super Speed razors, this one has provided the closest shave compared to my Slim on #4. While the 54 Flare Tip is a definite steep angle razor, the Slim prefers an angle closer to neutral. While the 54 Flare Tip feels more efficient than the Slim, 12 hours later the Slim on #4 shave is still BBS, the 54 Flare Tip is not.
I found a "shave binky" wiped my face off, cleaned my gear the splashed on Witch hazel, the "Veg", and Nivea balm, my face feels great.
The Slim on #4 is still the winner, by a slim margin. With a Gillette Platinum.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Just wondering if you've measured the gaps of the two razors? I wonder if the difference is in the gap or more than one factor? There is only a slim chance I will ever know all the razor engineering and design answers.
Happy shaves,
Jim
- Thread starter
- #973
Yes Jim, I checked the gaps with a Derby Extra and a Feather Hi Stainless to see if there was any variance because of blades, and detected none.
Slim on left, 54 Flare Tip on right.
The gaps on my Slim on #4 and my 54 Flare Tip are the same .026". My Slim appears to have +/- 0.0 blade exposure.
My 54 Flare Tip appears to have very slightly +.001" blade exposure, a larger cap span, and the curvature of the cap also appears different. The Flare Tip being a bit lighter with a shorter handle feels more maneuverable than my Slim, but my Slim is more comfortable and delivers a longer lasting shave.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Which factor do you think, or factors, important in making your two razors distinguishable in shave and comfort and preference, other than the handles? I'd guess not gap. Probably not blade exposure?
I know I have zero knowledge or understanding of razors. I couldn't order a custom made safety razor (Wolfman or Timeless) with any assurance that I'd like what I ordered even as compared with a razor of similar gap and such. There are too many variables (you mention curvature) which are mostly not part of a razor's specs, and not much discussed.
Not that that ⬆ matters. I'm not even thinking about trying to get a personally owned Wolfman or Timeless past the inspector. She's far too visual. I'd never fool her with a jewelry-like razor. She'd jump on it before I'd gotten the think near a blade. She's far too able to ascertain relative retail value in metal objects sold by ornament vendors we no longer frequent.
I showed her and bragged to her about my beautiful, great shaving Gillette Executive knowing if she asked, which she did, I could say it cost me nothing, and was received as a gift. I caught only a little grief about accepting the gift.
Have you tried the Fatboy or Executive adjustable? I ask because of the shorter handle, and because it seems comfortable and close shaving to me. The Slim did, too, but I didn't like its ergonomics as much; too skinny in the handle for me for one thing.
I can't keep up with what razors everyone's tried and reported upon. It's terrible to admit but I don't know if I've asked you the same thing before.
People say the Fatboy is cumbersome around and under their noses and such as that. That the FB isn't nimble. True that to a degree but only a very limited degree. It's a big hunk of razor head. Not called FB for nothing. I'm a fan of the overall look of the Fatboy and Executive, and of the handle's appearance, but the giant head is marginal at best in my visual view of it.
My ergonomic and performance view are better.
I'm not sure how to make the FB head all nimbly sports-car-ish without losing the adjustability. I wouldn't make that sacrifice. There are plenty of nimble razors some of which I like very much indeed. However, I also like the Executive.
To the point, the Executive is not just okay under my nose but it may be considerably better in that area than most razors. It gets the little difficult spots very well. Someone understood the corners of the razor/blade combination very well when they designed the Fatboy. For my face at least.
Happy shaves,
Jim
I believe the Fatboy and Slim razor heads are the same with the same blade geometry. I'm not that familiar with the Gillette adjustables to know if they went through many, or any, generational changes though. I'm sure that information can be found here.
I did notice last night that it was more difficult shaving N>S tight under my nose with a Slim but it sure wasnt what I'd call an issue. I just used one door to push my nose up lol.
- Thread starter
- #976
Pardon me for taking so long to respond Jim, it seems all of my internet connection devices decided to malfunction in succession, necessitating trips to exchange said devices, then proceed with the at home installation conflagration. Then making sure all 18 devices are all connected and working properly.
Yes, 18 devices. With two kids and a LOTH, 5 laptops, 1 pc, 2 ipads, 3 smart TV's, a coupe of gaming systems and 4 phones to get all reconfigured, I was busier than than a cat covering politicians.
With the gap being the same between my Slim and 54 Flare Tip, we need to look further, as the 54 Flare Tip has positive +.001" exposure and the Slim on #4 is +/-.0.0". How can one razor have positive exposure and the other is zero with the same gap?
The Slim clamps the blade at a different angle than the 54 Flare Tip, is one factor.
The Slim has a greater cap span than the 54 Flare Tip is another factor. My Mk1 Fatip razors also have a greater cap span than my Mk2 Fatip razors, and I prefer the Mk1, so I think that is a significant factor, for me.
I also notice that the curvature on the caps does appear less on the Slim than the 54 Flare Tip, I am sure that plays a part, which part I have no idea.
I think what surprised me the most Jim, was that while I was shaving, the 54 Flare Tip felt more maneuverable than my Slim, but the Slim was not only more comfortable, it shaved closer.
When you mention the size of the heads on the adjustables, I think the SS Flare Tips heads look bulky compared to a Slim or a Fatboy. I have not tried a Fatboy yet, but I managed to get a bid through on one, literally seconds before my internet connection failed for the third time in one hour. Sometime next week I should get my hands on it, and if I like it enough the inspector has given me permission to procure an Executive.
All it cost me to get permission was a new dinette set, couch, and bookcase. The bookcase BTW, cost more than an Executive.
I have also been looking at the 1940's Aristocrat's lately, as they appear to be closer to the first DE razor my Dad gave me, than a Super Speed. The only thing I remember was it was either gold or brass, and it was a TTO.
Being as my Dad was an officer in the Air Force until he retired in 1974, and always stopped off at Los Alamitos Joint Forces on the way home from work to shop at the commissary, It would have been whatever they had on the shelf there. It wasn't a new one either that he gave me, just one that he didn't use anymore. And a tuck with two blades in it. I think they were Wilkinson.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
The posts I've read tonight have been extraordinary including yours. Very interesting stuff, which would probably be better if I had a Flare Tip. I know very little about them. I had not thought at all about how the Mk1 fits into the mix, but I should have. Like you, I like it better than the Mk2. Aside from the FOCS the Mk1 is my favorite Fatip.
I know what cap span is (thanks to Grant), but not what it's about in terms of the shave. I'm afraid I know very little about what goes into making a razor work for me, but I know a little more than I once did.
My assumption, please correct me if I'm wrong, is the Executive is exactly like the Fatboy other than in the gold and other aesthetic elements. I'm not sure if the shave is much different from the Slim. Some say the Slim is a big improvement, but I like the Executive better.
I used to really want an Aristocrat. I hope you didn't crank that back up.
Amazing how much the electronics have infiltrated our lives, isn't it.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #978
If you look at the gap chart, it appears that Executive's are more consistent in the middle of the adjustment range than a regular Fatboy or Slim. It could be that only the best parts were chosen to be gold plated, and those ended up as Executives.
Right now I am trying to weigh the options of ordering a refurbished Fatboy, in my choice of plating, versus trying to find an Executive in the wild, as I have been given clearance from the inspector general.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Good point about the Executives.
It's pretty clear many of the parts used in the Executive were subtly different from those of the Fatboy razors as the above photo illustrates. Why not all of the parts used?
When you study the various easily available sources, such as here, there is simply not enough information to allow much more than speculation even though that information is interesting and informative.
I have books, including the one above which is a reprint. I think maybe that book is at the office and I'm at home.
Let's see what I can find...
This book ⬆ is digital. I'm not a collector of Gillette razors, not by light years, but it is a decent reference book for some Gillette razors. However, it has scant information on the adjustables and nothing I can find on the Executive adjustable. No help at all there.
The Robert Waits Safety Razor Compendium is somewhere on my computer or should be, but I can't find it right now. Maybe it has information on the Executive. Where is it?
There is not enough definitive information on all sorts of things many of us find fascinating and sometimes very important. It's rather amazing how deep into all this stuff some of us are and yet how little we actually know.
Although I have a Fatboy I've never yet used it. I really like my Executive, and will likely use the Fatboy sometime. Not today.
If I had my wife's blessings and wanted one, I'd be looking for an original Executive in NOS or mint condition rather than a replated razor.
Happy shaves,
Jim
- Thread starter
- #980
Friday, December 4
Razor: Chieftain
Blade: Gillette Platinum(12)
Brush: Simpson PJ2
Soap: AdP Colonia
ASL: the "Veg"
This is where it all began January 23, 2019 with my Vikings Blade Chieftain.
I had seen a Van Der Hagen at Wal-Mart that looked interesting, then did an internet search and fell for the Amazon hype. I used the Chieftain for two weeks and moved on.
As part of my experiment to find which of my TTO razors is the most comfortable and gives me the best shaves, my Chieftain was the last one on the list.
So I loaded up a fresh Gillette Platinum(12) and had an uneventful 2 pass shave. WTG first pass, ATG second pass.
Second impression, the Chieftain is a very mild razor. I stopped at 2 passes because I knew a 3rd pass would be useless and only create irritation.
When I first got it, I used the lousy blades that came with it and TOBS Sandalwood. I tried Astra SP's then ditched it for a Feather Popular.
No drama with the Witch hazel, the "Veg", and Nivea to finish off a Fairly Decent Shave.
I am pretty sure if I wanted to use a lot of pressure the shave would be closer, but I don't want to use that much pressure. It is an OK razor for a beginner, but definitely not worth the $36.97 I paid for it. More like the $2.99 special TTO at Italian Barber.
Now that I have declared my Slim on #4 the winner so far of all of my TTO razors, it is time to move on to the rest of my SB razors, starting with my first 3 piece razor, a RazorRock DE1.
![20201204_150334[1].jpg](https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/attachments/20201204_150334-1-jpg.1190863/ "20201204_150334[1].jpg")
Razor: Chieftain
Blade: Gillette Platinum(12)
Brush: Simpson PJ2
Soap: AdP Colonia
ASL: the "Veg"
This is where it all began January 23, 2019 with my Vikings Blade Chieftain.
I had seen a Van Der Hagen at Wal-Mart that looked interesting, then did an internet search and fell for the Amazon hype. I used the Chieftain for two weeks and moved on.
As part of my experiment to find which of my TTO razors is the most comfortable and gives me the best shaves, my Chieftain was the last one on the list.
So I loaded up a fresh Gillette Platinum(12) and had an uneventful 2 pass shave. WTG first pass, ATG second pass.
Second impression, the Chieftain is a very mild razor. I stopped at 2 passes because I knew a 3rd pass would be useless and only create irritation.
When I first got it, I used the lousy blades that came with it and TOBS Sandalwood. I tried Astra SP's then ditched it for a Feather Popular.
No drama with the Witch hazel, the "Veg", and Nivea to finish off a Fairly Decent Shave.
I am pretty sure if I wanted to use a lot of pressure the shave would be closer, but I don't want to use that much pressure. It is an OK razor for a beginner, but definitely not worth the $36.97 I paid for it. More like the $2.99 special TTO at Italian Barber.
Now that I have declared my Slim on #4 the winner so far of all of my TTO razors, it is time to move on to the rest of my SB razors, starting with my first 3 piece razor, a RazorRock DE1.
