The Jordan Legacy, and its place in NBA history

[TstebinsB]

I could give a flying hoot about the NBA. Just a bunch of low-life gangbangers being paid outrageous money.

Pardon my forwardness, but on its merits, that's an absolute ridiculous statement. The fact you have a Steelers avatar makes it even more ridiculous.

NFL players have considerably more brushes with the law, and more serious brushes at that. Rae Carruth (homicide), Ray Lewis (obstructing justice in a homicide), Pacman Jones (members of entourage shot and paralyzed innocent bystander and too many others to list), 13 separate incidents by Bengals players in one calendar year, and Tank Johnson (carrying unlicensed weapons, assaulting an officer, nightclub shootout where his bodyguard died). Those are the ones I could think of offhand. Looking at one news site, there were 363 different arrests or citations from 2000 to 2007. I know there are many more players per team in the NFL but 363 is still 363.

And what does being paid millions of dollars have to do with anything? They aren't stealing anyone's money and aren't simply being paid. They sign legal contracts and therefore, are earning their money. Would it be acceptable if they were gangbangers but not earning outrageous money? Come on man.

I'm not here to defend the NBA. I used to love the NBA but I no longer do because of the quality of play - not because of the players. Criminal athletes haven't hurt the NFL any. What's so different with the NBA? People need to stop turning perception into reality. I readily admit that NBA players have their problems. My point is that while you aimlessly stereotype a whole group of NBA athletes, you don't even acknolwedge the NFL players' faults. The fact you have the Steelers' logo as your avatar means you actually do follow the NFL and therefore, should know better.

 

[Anomaly]

You made some great points, but the above isn't completely accurate....

Well I didn't mean coming into the league as in a greatly anticipated draft pick. I meant once he got out there, and showed what he can do, especially in the face of 7 foot would be defenders, "Jordan-mania" started to explode almost instantly. Certainly it got more intense throughout the years as I mentioned, but he DID create quite the excitement once he showed that he could transfer what he did in college to the NBA level.

First three seasons, in fact, and very nearly his first four.

Ah, that's right. Couldn't remember the exact number off the top of my head, so I figured I'd say "at least one" to be on the safe side.

Okay, I have to call you on this one

Wait...what are you calling me on? I don't see how that was off-topic. The title of the topic was "Any NBA fans?" That by no means implies that ONLY NBA fans can answer. I simply said I used to be, but not anymore, and went into details why. Several others before and after me also noted the same disdain (granted, not in as much detail), but it more than pertains to the topic. When the subject started veering off to comparing the Jordan legacy to current players, I decided to make this separate thread before it got too far on that thread.

some of us choose to move forward and not live in the glorious past of the Jordan era.

But that's just the problem. It would be one thing if it was progressing and evolving as it has always done up until this last decade or so, but it's NOT moving forward. If anything, it's stepping backwards, and again, the decline in popularity reflects this. It is the equivalent to having experienced a Bugatti Veyron, or Enzo Ferrari for a period of time, and then being told you "those are now gone, you have to live with a Z06 'Vette from now on". Granted, the 'Vette is a SUPER nice automobile in its own right, it wouldn't seem as grand following on the heals of the Veyron and Enzo experience.

But, just to add some fuel to the "best" player debate, I vote for Jerry West. How many other athletes have become the logo for their respective sport?

I have no problem with that selection. I don't consider that fueling the fire. This thread wasn't designed to proclaim "Jordan is undoubtedly the greatest of all time, do not imply otherwise". It was aimed more at explaining why the current pretenders aren't in the same realm, much less up for contention for that position. I think Frank Deford (senior contributing writer, Sports Illustrated) put it best during an interview with Charlie Rose (at the 23:05 mark on the link below) when Charlie asked him if he felt any emotions about Jordan retiring, and "passing the baton":

"No, no, it's not a passing of the baton, because there's nobody there to accept the baton. This is someone passing by, and gone. This is an era that goes with him. It's not so much a question of what Michael Jordan is going to do (after retiring). It's, in some sense, what are we going to do without him?"​

And Dave Checketts, President of Madison Square Garden, during that same episode (at the 28:55 mark) hit the nail on the head when commenting on the damage Jordan leaving does to the NBA, and who will pick up where he left off:

"There's some great talent, some great players. But there hasn't been anybody who has shown that they're capable at those very big moments (referring to how Jordan thrived under pressure) of standing to the forefront and taking control of the game. There hasn't been anybody."​

TERRIFIC show:
Charlie Rose on Jordan's 2nd retirement Part I (Frank Deford, Bob Greene, Mark Vancil, Dave Cecketts)
Charlie Rose on Jordan's 2nd retirement Part II (Bob Costas)

 

[TstebinsB]

Jordan is Palestine

Who's Israel? Sandy Koufax?


EDIT: Ohhhh.. It took me a while but I got it..

 

[Holton181]

So, are you complaining that the NBA is filled with tattoed "gang-bangers," or because you think that there is no one out there as famous as Jordan? Or both?

Tattos are not uncommon for athletes. I always think Jeremy Shockey, someone who has posed for watch ads in the past, mind you, when gangster-isms are thrown about the players in the NBA. I also think of Dennis Rodman, All-Star athlete and NBA champion before playing for the Bulls, and how crazy he is. Not a gangster, just tatooed up the yin-yang and crazy.

Yes, Stern felt the urban image worked best for the NBA. So did many advertisers. It was a good match for a while, then people got bored with it. The dress code is a mere correction adhered to customer trends, not because Stern thinks that all of his players are thugs. It kinda ended when companies like Sprite wanted to give Duncan a hip-hop edge. Yeah, right.

There are plenty of grand players in the NBA. I think the major problem with sports in general is that we need a superstar. To go to another sport, I'm an avid Mets fan. I feel that the Mets haven't really been able to share thier part of the spotlight until David Wright started to shine. I think that's funny, because Jose Reyes has been making awesome plays long before Wright decided he can catch. Their offense has been there for quite some time, but it wasn't until Wright got some press that the Mets were a good team (YMMV, of course).

Ratings have plummeted because the great players are not superstars. Tim Duncan is boring, but he puts in work and wins championships. The championships the Spurs win are the lowest rated in basketball history. Lebron is God on the court, but he plays for a crappy team. Same thing with Kobe, whether or not you believe he had a hand in destroying his team. GA never lives up to his on-air predictions. There's no "face" for basketball like when Jordan, or the Big O, or Bird and Magic were playing.

The rivalries are gone too. Jordan had the Knicks. The Lakers had the Celtics. Who are the Spurs' rivals? Detroit? Boston? One more point, there isn't a team located in a major media market other than LA that is any good. San Antionio is not a media market. Detroit is not a media market. Boston just got good in the off season, so we'll see in that translates to ticket sales and television viewership. Have you seen the ratings for the Super Bowl? Up 45%!!!
That's because two major media markets had teams in the game, with more people wanting to watch it.

 

[ouch]

Well I didn't mean coming into the league as in a greatly anticipated draft pick. I meant once he got out there, and showed what he can do, especially in the face of 7 foot would be defenders, "Jordan-mania" started to explode almost instantly. Certainly it got more intense throughout the years as I mentioned, but he DID create quite the excitement once he showed that he could transfer what he did in college to the NBA level.

He certainly did adapt to the pro game quickly. I think his turning point (ie: the moment he "became" the Jordan we know and love) was when he scored 63 against the Celtics. Everyone knew who was going to be in charge from that point forward.