The Importance of a Rigid Blade (or not)

[Steve_in_CT]

There have been many discussions professing the advantages of razors with designs that ensure a rigid blade. I have a few of these, e.g. Blackland Dart, Fatip FOCS and AC style single edge razors. All of these are favorites of mine. But then so are my Muhle Rocca and Yaqi double open comb slant. The Yaqi in particular provides minimal support to the edge of the blade, as you can see in the photo below.

Nevertheless, this razor provides wonderfully close and comfortable shaves (at least it does for me). I also enjoy the audible feedback - it reminds me of the line from the Jabberwocky, "the vorpal blade went snicker-snack". It seems to turn blade chatter into an art form.

 

[gdawg55]

My top performer is a Henson Ti22 and it holds the blade very rigid. My next favorite is the EJ 3one6 which is the opposite but provides super shaves as well. My Yates and Blackbird kind of fall in the middle of those two and also provide excellent shaves. Maybe it's YMMV on blade clamping. I do think the way the Henson clamps the blade is part of the magic, but I can get great performance from others that don't clamp as rigidly.

 

[D4PPZ]

Really depends on your hair, skin, and blade choice. Some people end up getting knicked as a result of the chatter because their stubble is a bit too hard to get through, which results in more pressure and chatter. If you use a Feather and the razor is still chattering and tugging, you need a more rigid blade design to prevent damage. This is why razors and blades are so YMMV, sometimes you just need a different design or blade to safely get through that growth.

 

[poikkeus]

If you shave lightly, with sufficient prep, a rigid blade is unnecessary. Why would tugging happen in the first place?

If you shave with some pressure, and/or only a little lubrication, there's going to be tugging and discomfort galore. Even with a "comfortable" razor like the Rockwell 6S. That's when you wish you had a rigid blade.

In other words, good prep and shaving technique make a rigid blade unnecessary in most cases.

 

[JoWolf]

There have been many discussions professing the advantages of razors with designs that ensure a rigid blade. I have a few of these, e.g. Blackland Dart, Fatip FOCS and AC style single edge razors. All of these are favorites of mine. But then so are my Muhle Rocca and Yaqi double open comb slant. The Yaqi in particular provides minimal support to the edge of the blade, as you can see in the photo below.

View attachment 1257173

Nevertheless, this razor provides wonderfully close and comfortable shaves (at least it does for me). I also enjoy the audible feedback - it reminds me of the line from the Jabberwocky, "the vorpal blade went snicker-snack". It seems to turn blade chatter into an art form.

I’ve used the Yaqi Mellon and it is a comfortable mid efficiency razor. Blade gap, exposure and rigidity are very much dynamics effecting performance. Will it shave BBS. Of course it will. Just take more passes than a Fatip Grande, which has very little gap, good blade exposure and lower blade vibration. The Fatip FOCS basically the Grande. Only slanted. The slant putting a twist in the blade again removes more vibration, adding more rigidity. The cutting angles slightly different than the Grande. My favourite DE razor. While being a tad less efficient than FOCS the cutting angles are smoother providing a more comfortable BBS. There is that line where you may increase efficiency but it may come at a reduced comfort level.

I’ve recently started to learn straights. All parameters drastically increased starting with vibration. A full hollow grind a screamer and not a peep out of a wedge. Pictured a full hollow and a Kamasori blade design. One talks, one does not. All blades vibrate.

 

[thombrogan]

good prep and shaving technique make a rigid blade unnecessary in most cases.

No good technique in my hands, but good prep (I hold a damp facecloth on my whiskers for at least a minute before I shave like I read @Tallships does and paint lots of water into my lather before I shave) — good prep reduces how sharp a blade needs to be and increases how long it takes to dull and good prep makes it easier to use that light touch everyone recommends to everyone else because a slick lather over well-hydrated whiskers doesn’t make the razor dead-stop or skip and send the edge into the skin.

Lack of good technique, lack of good prep, and lack of rigidity all demonstrate their importance on ATG passes very well. Especially with an R41 and a Feather…

 

[D4PPZ]

If you shave lightly, with sufficient prep, a rigid blade is unnecessary. Why would tugging happen in the first place?

If you shave with some pressure, and/or only a little lubrication, there's going to be tugging and discomfort galore. Even with a "comfortable" razor like the Rockwell 6S. That's when you wish you had a rigid blade.

In other words, good prep and shaving technique make a rigid blade unnecessary in most cases.

So you could give someone with the toughest stubble on the planet the dullest blade on the market, a razor with high chatter, and expect them to get no tugging as long as they use light pressure and good prep? I call bull****, sometimes the razor/blade combo doesnt cut it for your growth without tugging.

 

[ouchyfoot]

I’m in the middle of trying a shim on various razors. A shim will give a DE blade double thickness and strength and firm it up. This should alleviate even micro chattering from the blade. I’m trying it with the shim on top, which won’t change the gap but will bolster any flexing. I’ll also shim from the bottom which will slightly alter the blade gap while solidly backing the cutting blade.

 

[Medivh]

All my razors are either very rigid or slightly less and I like both. I've tried a couple of razors like Yaqi Melone (which wasn't terrible, but not great either), Ming Shi 2000S and Yaqi Katana all of which were Chinese and I didn't get good shaves with any of them. Folks with not very dense and coarse beard probably don't have any problems and probably wonder why is this such a big issue, but I definitely find a huge difference between an inexpensive Chinese made ''razor'' and a Fatip or vintage Gillette (which are not as rigid as most modern razors, but the difference is barely noticable and they still deliver great shaves).

I don't think any of the modern stainless steel razors have any of that issue and from what i've seen only some vintage and most Chinese razors have this issue. My advice is to stay away from Chinese razors unless you know exactly what you're buying. Even some of the DE89 head clones have bad blade support and while they look like the real deal, the shave isn't the same at all.

 

[Demaratus]

World’s Finest Razor, Phoenix Meta4, Homelike Taiga, Timeless, Razorock Mamba 0.7 all have very good blade clamping and no chatter. Homelike is the smoothest of the bunch, it’s crazy how good it is.

My Henson is in the mail, will report back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[thombrogan]

So you could give someone with the toughest stubble on the planet the dullest blade on the market, a razor with high chatter, and expect them to get no tugging as long as they use light pressure and good prep? I call bull****, sometimes the razor/blade combo doesnt cut it for your growth without tugging.

He didn’t mention sharpness requirements decreasing with good prep. That was me. And that’s no where near the same as saying a dull blade will cut as well as a sharp blade.

An Edwin Jagger 3ONE6 with a Personna Med Prep is less rigid than a Timeless Stainless 0.68 with a Feather; duller, on average, too; but I doubt anyone doing 2 or 3 pass shave with one combo wouldn’t love the other.

 

[Nehbulah]

World’s Finest Razor, Phoenix Meta4, Homelike Taiga, Timeless, Razorock Mamba 0.7 all have very good blade clamping and no chatter. Homelike is the smoothest of the bunch, it’s crazy how good it is.

My Henson is in the mail, will report back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1 on the Taiga
They really nailed the geometry on that razor.

 

[Garb]

I tried a Nacet today in Blackland Ti and it was very tightly held but still no good. Swapped over to a Kai and it worked like spreading butter. It's also about the blade used my friends

 

[Nehbulah]

I think razors needing the blade clamped near the cutting edge all depends on the geometry of the razor design.
The Yates 921-M for instance has the blade pretty torqued in a steep fashion and does not exhibit any chatter despite not having the blade clamped near the edges.

 

[THall]

Chatter doesn’t bother my skin but I’ve found that a rigid design will always be smoother. A cheap way to compare is to try a shim as someone already mentioned.

Another way to compare rigidity is to try the Gillette Slide with your razors. My less rigid razors take more time using the GS whereas others just glide along. If you never tried the GS, I recommend trying without a blade inserted first to get used to the feel.

Happy Shaves!

 

[sugardaddy]

I'm a huge fan of rigid blades, I get my most comfortable, and smooth, shaves with them. but some of the razors you guys are mentioning... I don't consider in that category.

I consider it to clamp well when it has support from the bottom too, close to the edge. All razors support from the top.

Dart, blackbird, DE89, mamba, variant, progress, goodwill, NEW Improved, charcoal goods, Rockwell, Krona, and many others, don't have good support close to the edge on the underside of the blade. They all give me a scrapey, tenuous feeling.

Timeless, Fatip, Karve, game changer, World's Finest, Maggard v3 mild are all great examples of good top -- and bottom -- clamping. And are my faves.

For me, keeping that edge rigid is crucial to my enjoyment of the hobby.

(Sent from mobile)

 

[AimlessWanderer]

My primary razor is an Edwin Jagger DE3D14, with second place going to Merkur open comb head on either a Merkur 985 handle for travel, or an Ikon Bulldog II handle for home use. One hard clamps the blade, while the other relies quite a lot on spring tension. As such, I'd say blade rigidity is far less important to me than others. If I'm getting any form of chatter, it's typically me that's failing to use best technique, not any failing of the razor.

That said, a butterfly opening Parker 22 Interceptor was quite shouty, particularly with milder blades, and blades didn't last as long in that as the Jagger. I gave that razor away. The only other butterfly opener I have is a Gillette Super Slim Twist. I haven't fully made my mind up on that razor, though if it wasn't for the fact it's a birth quarter razor, I'd probably have give up on it some time ago.

 

[nav]

My stubble is very coarse (Indian ethnicity). I do 4 passes daily (including 2 against the grain) in order to achieve BBS.

My skin is incredibly reactive to blade chatter!
I just hate it more than anything else in this hobby...except maybe the extreme scratch of a pure badger brush!

- I dislike large positive blade exposure.
- I like razors that bend the blade a lot (Rockwell 6S and Merkur Progress) or,
- That reveal minimal blade beyond the cap (ATT Windsor) or,
- That clamp the blade just before the cutting edge (Karve).

Unsurprisingly, the razors mentioned above are the ones that made the cut and remain in my den.

 

[Dovo1695]

Lack of good technique, lack of good prep, and lack of rigidity all demonstrate their importance on ATG passes very well. Especially with an R41 and a Feather…

The R41 is an interesting razor for testing the rigidity hypothesis. If I shave at a shallow angle with the R41, it tugs my beards so badly that my eyes water. I've never used a razor that tugs worse than an R41. This is true even with a brand new Feather. I don't get cuts or nicks typically, but it's a very painful shave. Increasing the angle as steep as it can possibly go helps, but there is still tugging going on. The Fatip Piccolo is nearly as efficient, but never tugs regardless of the shaving angle. I'm not alone in this experience. If you search for "R41 tugging", you'll see an awful lot of people complaining of tugging problems. Here are some selected comments from different people:

This is well worn ground, but looking the design of the two razor heads is illuminating. It makes sense that the R41 is less rigid than the Piccolo. I once put together a simple model that scored razors based on Edge to Cap Distance, Edge to Baseplate Distance, and Blade Bend Radius. These are the 3 parameters that I believe most influence rigidity. I didn't have an R41 at the time, but it would have scored below the Ming Shi Futur on these 3 parameters. It's bend radius is 21.78mm (it's nearly flat!), and it's effective edge to baseplate distance is 4.75mm because the blade doesn't actually touch the comb. What does this prove? Absolutely nothing. It was a dumb model. . I still say the R41 tugs my beard because it isn't rigid enough.

 

[JackJ]

I get the most audible feedback from my Muhle Rocca v4. I assume that means relatively "unrigid" clamping. But it is among the very best performers of the 30+ razors I own, including quite a few that are in the "rigid clamp" category.