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"The Holy Grail" Bevel setter ?

The "Holy Grail" bevel setter synthetic

  • Naniwa Super Ceramic 1000 (Chosera) ($80)

    Votes: 15 48.4%
  • Shapton Ceramic KUROMAKU #1500 ($41)

    Votes: 14 45.2%
  • Suehiro CERAX 1010 Medium #1000, Ceramic sharpening stone ($41)

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • Total voters
    31
A bevel is a bevel is a bevel, but if you're going to be setting a lot of bevels your bevel setter should be a stone that you really like because you're going to be spending more time on it than any other stone in your tool box.
For sure. But the price points are something to think about. And the slower wearing and faster stones are generally more money. But at the end of the day a bevel set on a cheaper stone isn't inferior to one set on a more expensive. One of each then? Lol.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Try the Chosera 600. For really tough customers the Shapton Kuromaku 320. If you only had a couple of razors to set, I would say wet/dry sandpaper in appropriate grit. You got a 1k. You need some honing muscle. You need the bad boys of honing. Later, look into a 1500 or 2k grit stone of respectable brand to clean up after the 600 or to set a bevel on a well kept razor that doesn't need much more than gentle persuasion.

I almost forgot... if you feel like rolling the dice, the Nortons seem to have recovered somewhat from the downspin they took in quality a couple decades ago. I have a 1k that is very homogenous and okay it behaves more like a 600 grit stone than a 1k but it doesn't load up at all, and doesn't need lapping twice for doing one razor. And the big one is bigger than the standard Japanese synthetic. After using this stone, you will want a few cleanup laps on a more well mannered 1k or 2k because SCRATCHES. But it does remove steel expeditiously.
 
Try the Chosera 600. For really tough customers the Shapton Kuromaku 320. If you only had a couple of razors to set, I would say wet/dry sandpaper in appropriate grit. You got a 1k. You need some honing muscle. You need the bad boys of honing. Later, look into a 1500 or 2k grit stone of respectable brand to clean up after the 600 or to set a bevel on a well kept razor that doesn't need much more than gentle persuasion.

I almost forgot... if you feel like rolling the dice, the Nortons seem to have recovered somewhat from the downspin they took in quality a couple decades ago. I have a 1k that is very homogenous and okay it behaves more like a 600 grit stone than a 1k but it doesn't load up at all, and doesn't need lapping twice for doing one razor. And the big one is bigger than the standard Japanese synthetic. After using this stone, you will want a few cleanup laps on a more well mannered 1k or 2k because SCRATCHES. But it does remove steel expeditiously.
The scratches on my well worn DMT coarse is what keeps me away from using them for really wonky razors. The scratches need a lot of sweat to even out and that is where the King 1K fails. I gave up on 2 of my razors due to the effort involved in cleaning the stone.

Would a Shapton Kuromako 320 + 1500 make a good pair for the bad work and then the 1500 to smoothen out the scratches ? They would cost me the same as just a 1K chosera stone.
 
You totally can. I keep a DMT 600 for exactly that situation. You just need to make sure your next stone is able to buff out the scratches.
This is where I am uncomfortable with the King 1K. After getting the task done with the DMT I dont have a good 1K-2K stone before the Norton 4/8K to remove the scratches. The king stone clogs up easy.
 
This is where I am uncomfortable with the King 1K. After getting the task done with the DMT I dont have a good 1K-2K stone before the Norton 4/8K to remove the scratches. The king stone clogs up easy.
I use a fast LPB coticule with slurry. No clogging, and works pretty well, especially if you have done the heavy lifting with the DMT.
 
You totally can. I keep a DMT 600 for exactly that situation. You just need to make sure your next stone is able to buff out the scratches.

Ah that makes sense. I must confess I don't like using diamond plates on knives for exactly that reason - I find them overly aggressive and difficult to progress from.

It seems like I slightly misunderstood @luv2shave anyway though, and he's looking for exactly that stone - something to perhaps go after the DMT if necessary.

FWIW - if I used a synth progression on SRs I'm pretty sure I'd go with Shapton Glass for most of it, certainly the early stones. They come in slightly finer than their JIS rating suggests, cut well while leaving very light scratch patterns for the level they're at. The SG 500 in particular is an amazing stone & 1k good too.
 
Would a Shapton Kuromako 320 + 1500 make a good pair for the bad work and then the 1500 to smoothen out the scratches ? They would cost me the same as just a 1K chosera stone.
Something similar works really well for me: I use the Shapton Glass 500 and Kuromaku 2000 and very much enjoy the combo. I didn't want to go lower because I still wanted to keep it flat with the same Atoma 400.

The 2k is fast, doesn't take long to wipe out the scratches from the sg500 (which is way more polite than the Atoma) and it just feels nice, one of my very favourites. Also fast enough to be a bevel setter itself for blades that aren't too far gone. With some light laps at the end I have no issue jumping to the glass 6k.

I did actually wind up getting the Chosera 1k as part of a lucky deal on Craigslist and it's sorta in between them but more toward the 2k. I agree that it loads up faster but in a predictable way, makes it very versatile with a nagura. While I enjoy having it and sometimes it's the right tool, if it was between it and my other two stones I'd keep the Shapton pair every time.
 
"The King 1Kchokes up pretty fast, and need cleaning using my DMT plate quite frequently. When a razor needs more work the King 1K feels like a real chore to use."

One of the benefits of the King 1k, it is softer, so rather than loading up it slurries releasing fresh grit. Sounds like you are not using the stone with enough water, try a squirt water bottle in place of a spray bottle.

What do you mean “the geometry is not right”, are you grinding the spines?

One of the benefits of the King 1k, it is soft, so rather than loading up it slurries. Sounds like you are not using the stone with enough water, try a squirt water bottle in place of a spray bottle.

The Chosera 1K is a good stone, but really all 1k’s are similar, and none are more aggressive than the other, they all use 1k grit. If you need aggression do circles in a scurried 1k and finish on a clean stone.

You do need to learn the intricacies of each stone, some will feel different but all, will produce a 1k finish. No matter which stone is use, you will get a much better 1k edge, if you quickly re-lap the stone face and do your final 1k laps on a clean stone flooded with clean water.

Probably the King and Naniwia Chosera are the most popular. Likely it is more technique related and not the stone, Post some photos of the issue you are having
 
"The King 1Kchokes up pretty fast, and need cleaning using my DMT plate quite frequently. When a razor needs more work the King 1K feels like a real chore to use."

One of the benefits of the King 1k, it is softer, so rather than loading up it slurries releasing fresh grit. Sounds like you are not using the stone with enough water, try a squirt water bottle in place of a spray bottle.

This struck me too... As HBB says - if you've got the normal King 1k, which is called 'Deluxe' then that range is so soft that I would find it impossible to clog - they're about the least cloggy stones I know. They *are* soaking stones, and perform considerably better the longer they're soaked. I permasoak my Kings and they're brilliant like that, but if you can't be bothered then you still want to be thinking about hours of soaking, not minutes.

Though it's possible we're talking cross purposes here... there is at least one other King brand 1k stone called the 'Hyper', though I haven't used it, so couldn't comment on loading/clogging issues.

Also - I've never come across a King 1k/3k combi... is that definitely what you have @luv2shave ? Suehiro and Naniwa both do 1k/3k stones, but the very well known King one is 1k/6k...
 
The Chosera 1K is a good stone, but really all 1k’s are similar, and none are more aggressive than the other, they all use 1k grit.

This isn't necessarily always the case...

I just tried to dig out an old comparison video I remembered that James from K&S did about it, and rather serendipitously it was actually comparing the four stones we're talking about here; Cerax 1k, Chosera 1k, Kuromaku 1k, and King DL 1K. How handy is that!

 
This struck me too... As HBB says - if you've got the normal King 1k, which is called 'Deluxe' then that range is so soft that I would find it impossible to clog - they're about the least cloggy stones I know. They *are* soaking stones, and perform considerably better the longer they're soaked. I permasoak my Kings and they're brilliant like that, but if you can't be bothered then you still want to be thinking about hours of soaking, not minutes.

Though it's possible we're talking cross purposes here... there is at least one other King brand 1k stone called the 'Hyper', though I haven't used it, so couldn't comment on loading/clogging issues.

Also - I've never come across a King 1k/3k combi... is that definitely what you have @luv2shave ? Suehiro and Naniwa both do 1k/3k stones, but the very well known King one is 1k/6k...
The OP has a King combo. Are we sure that the combos can be perma soaked. I have a King 800 and a 6k perma soaking with no issues, but my understanding is that not all of the King 6k stones can be soaked. I did test my 6k for perma soaking prier to doing it by cutting of a piece from the end.
 
The OP has a King combo. Are we sure that the combos can be perma soaked. I have a King 800 and a 6k perma soaking with no issues, but my understanding is that not all of the King 6k stones can be soaked. I did test my 6k for perma soaking prier to doing it by cutting of a piece from the end.

Ah yeah that's a good point. I'm not sure I've ever used the King 6k tbh, but the 4k 'Ice Bear' struck me as a stone that it might not be great to soak.

(And no idea at all about a 1k/3k combi).
 
I like a Suehiro 1k/3k kitchen combo hone. The 1k clogs up after a while, but is easily lapped and does a great job, better than a King by way of comparison. 3k leaves a shine that could be mistaken for 8k. For more aggressive honing, I normally do up-and-strokes on a fine DMT (the one with the perforated patterning).
 
I like a Suehiro 1k/3k kitchen combo hone. The 1k clogs up after a while, but is easily lapped and does a great job, better than a King by way of comparison. 3k leaves a shine that could be mistaken for 8k. For more aggressive honing, I normally do up-and-strokes on a fine DMT (the one with the perforated patterning).

That 3k side is the Ouka, and it's a stunning stone. I'm fairly certain the 1k side is the Cerax too. That combi is the stone I most often recommend to people - it's just superb.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
This isn't necessarily always the case...

I just tried to dig out an old comparison video I remembered that James from K&S did about it, and rather serendipitously it was actually comparing the four stones we're talking about here; Cerax 1k, Chosera 1k, Kuromaku 1k, and King DL 1K. How handy is that!

Norton 1k, Chosera 1k, Nanny Superstone 1k, all totally different animules. Can't even compare them.
 
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