The Healthcare debate

[Austin]

Gents, I rarely post about politics or anything controversial that causes flame wars. I mainly find them counter productive to this site and our core values. Nevertheless, I have seen a lot of misinformation being generated about healthcare reform and what the Obama Administration want to accomplish. I work in healthcare administration and know first hand what is bull and what is true. This administration may put me out of work because I work closely with doctors and helping them figure out the current payor systems. Nevertheless, if it helps all Americans then I will find other work.

Here is an excellent article written and researched by T.R. Reid.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778.html

Here is an audio interview from NPR radio's Fresh Air

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112172939

I think we all need to be informed about what is really happening in our world. We need to stop depending on extremist telling us what we think.

I was asked by one of my clients (doctor) what I thought about healthcare reform. I told her that I knew as much as she did. I avoided the question because she is paying me to give her advice and not debate.

 

[Cutter]

Good information! Thanks for the links.

 

[ClubmanRob]

Great post, Andrew. The Washington Post article should be required reading for anyone that instantly sticks their fingers in their ears chanting "Nyah Nyah Nyah" when someone mentions socialized healthcare or health care reform.

I'm not a fan of the Obama administration or the health care proposal, but I'm less a fan of people spouting outright lies and gibberish in regards to it. I think it's a step in the right direction that is being hindered by partisan rhetoric.

 

[Leche]

I think the real debate for Americans is how long we will sit idol while the Federal Government tramples the US Constitution. It's been going on for a long time.

 

[mr_economy]

Having lived in France - where there is universal healthcare - for nearly a year, it's hard for me to comprehend the amount of misinformation out there.

One thing I do know is that "debate" over healthcare reform has been disgustingly irrational and inane. That people think Fox News and CNN have real news coverage is itself frightening. That people actually parrot word for word what the highly paid entertainers on TV tell them to think is even more frightening. That people would rather carry Obama Hitler posters than discuss nuts and bolts of what reform is needed is, well, disappointing. I don't care if it's Glenn Beck or Keith Olberman, television is a profit-making, entertainment venue. It is most certainly not a place where true political thought can exist.

The facts of American healthcare are troubling. Health related costs are implicated in a frightening number of bankruptcies. Insurance companies are canceling policies in the middle of cancer treatment because of an after-the-fact discovery of an unrelated pre-existing condition like gall stones. Emergency rooms will save your life even if you don't have insurance, but you'll spend the rest of it paying them back for that. None of this means a government-run system is best, nor does it mean that private industry is evil and must disappear. What it tells me is that clearly something must be done, and to arrive at that something will require discussion several orders of magnitude more intelligent than what we've seen so far.

p.s. I think The Economist, The Washington Post, The New York Times, and The Wall Street Journal should be required reading for everyone. Although the Times and WSJ are particularly partisan, their discussion is at least intelligent enough to be worth learning from. And The Economist is simply the world's best publication, end of story.

 

[wakeboarder4402]

There is something to be said though, about a plan that is so complex, won't take place until 2013, and yet was trying to be passed through in 17 days before everyone went on summer vacation. Also that an ammendment was proposed that government officials, including representatives and senators, would have to take the public option and that vote went right down party lines with being shot down by democrats. I agree, we need healthcare reform, but why not in the form of concepts like tort reform? How about opening the state boundries for insurance selection. Medicare, medicaid, social security, and the United States Postal service. What do all these have in common? Government run programs that have failed, resulting in their bankrupcy and wasting of our tax dollars. Why should we belive government-run healthcare will be any different?

 

[Mr Peat]

Great post, Andrew. The Washington Post article should be required reading for anyone that instantly sticks their fingers in their ears chanting "Nyah Nyah Nyah" when someone mentions socialized healthcare or health care reform.

I'm not a fan of the Obama administration or the health care proposal, but I'm less a fan of people spouting outright lies and gibberish in regards to it. I think it's a step in the right direction that is being hindered by partisan rhetoric.

I say look at the current government run VA healthcare system for Veterans. I see that and wish no one has to go through what I have at their hands. It would make you sick. So if you want to know, send me a PM asking me for details. I have to warn you...its BAD and would be considered malpractice if a civilian doctor did what was done to me. Anyways...I will get off my soap box.

 

[Austin]

Gents, this is not a debate of right versus left. It's simply put out there to dispel misinformation being perpetrated by both sides. Read the articles to fully understand how systems work in different countries. This is my thread and if flame wars erupt folks will be tossed from the Barber Shop forum. Thank you.

 

[mr_economy]

There is something to be said though, about a plan that is so complex, won't take place until 2013, and yet was trying to be passed through in 17 days before everyone went on summer vacation. Also that an ammendment was proposed that government officials, including representatives and senators, would have to take the public option and that vote went right down party lines with being shot down by democrats. I agree, we need healthcare reform, but why not in the form of concepts like tort reform? How about opening the state boundries for insurance selection. Medicare, medicaid, social security, and the United States Postal service. What do all these have in common? Government run programs that have failed, resulting in their bankrupcy and wasting of our tax dollars. Why should we belive government-run healthcare will be any different?

I still don't know how comfortable I am getting into a deep political discussion on B&B, but at least issues like tort reform or the effectiveness of Medicare/Medicaid can be rationally discussed. "Your plan is like the Nazis!" vs. "You're just a bunch of greedy capitalists!" gets us a whole lot of nowhere. Unfortunately, it's the latter form of discussion that has dominated thus far.

 

[wakeboarder4402]

Gents, this is not a debate of right versus left. It's simply put out there to dispel misinformation being perpetrated by both sides. Read the articles to fully understand how systems work in different countries. This is my thread and if flame wars erupt folks will be tossed from the Barber Shop forum. Thank you.

I don't want you to think that I was trying to flame or incite flaming. I just finished attending a local town hall and found this appropriate to possibly discuss what is going on concerning this topic.

 

[airplanedoc]

Want to see US government run Healthcare, pay a visit to a VA Hospital.

 

[Austin]

My mother turned 75 on Monday. I called her to wish her the best and let her know that I would be visiting her this weekend. We had our usual discussion about my kids and grandchildren. She mentioned to me that she was afraid of socialized medicine. I informed her that she was already in socialized medicine because she participates in Medicare. She said I did not think about that.

I certainly don't want nor need my mother worrying about this type of crap at her age because she heard it on TV. I want her to enjoy her golden years.

 

[Mr Peat]

I read the one article Austin. Thanks for posting it. But this statement he made in the article is incorrect.

"In many ways, foreign health-care models are not really "foreign" to America, because our crazy-quilt health-care system uses elements of all of them. For Native Americans or veterans, we're Britain: The government provides health care, funding it through general taxes, and patients get no bills."

I will explain it and show how wrong he is. In the VA Healthcare system, there is Categories that Veterans get placed in. They have removed some of them so I have no idea how many their are currently. Last I heard there was 7 Categories.

Category 1 has priority over any Veteran in the system. I happen to be in this Category.
Category 7 is the worst one. As you leave Cat 1 to Cat 7, your benefits get less and less.

What isn't said is this. If you are not rated 100% Disabled, 100% Unemployable or Retired...you have to suffered an injury to your teeth and or eyes while in the Service to be eligible for Dental and or Eye care through the VA. I have everything covered now. But before, I had to fight the VA through thick and thin to get where I am at now. When I say fight, you can not imagine all the red tape I had to go through and jumping through the hoops. I pray no one has to go through what I did.

So no...not every Veteran gets the same treatment in health care. You have to take a Means test which will tell the VA a few facts about your income and what not. This helps place you in the Category you are in. So you can get treated for free for any injury related to your time in the Military. Anything else and your insurance has to pay it. Even medicine related to your injuries can have the cost put on you and your insurance.

So this guy's statement is completely false. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but he is talking about things he has no knowledge of. If he did research it, he needs to go back and learn how to do it. As this information can be had in a little booklet the VA puts out every year or two when they update it. Usually found in the office where you go to see if you Qualify for VA Benefits.

 

[Unknownsoldier]

Guys, in the states do you all go to the doctor or to the hospital when you need it? Or do you think I'll walk it off cos' it'll put my insurance up? My GF and I spent 2 hours in A&E on Saturday, she came off her bike and I rushed her there as she had multiple injuries to her body, and suspected concussion, I just dumped her in the car and went straight there, no thoughts of how much will this cost, no thoughts of my premiums going up, we were seen almost immediately, and her treatment was quick (now I have had other experiences of NHS hospitals not all good, but thats down to idiot being in charge and not doing things properly). It seems from all this opposition to it, you're happy having a system that would rather let you die than spend a buck on your treatment....... alright the NHS ain't perfect, but it's been doing fine for around 60 years. For such a civilised country not to have universal health care is verging on "obscene". There has been tonnes of BS thrown around about the evils of it, with many Americans not realising the overall benefits.

(Coming from a country with universal healthcare, and no worries of bills, does make your treatment easier) Tom

 

[Mr Peat]

Guys, in the states do you all go to the doctor or to the hospital when you need it?

(Coming from a country with universal healthcare, and no worries of bills, does make your treatment easier) Tom

I have to drive 440 miles one way so I can have my check-ups twice a year at the VA Hospital. I don't pay for any of it so it doesn't bother me to go in. If something is seriously wrong, I will be the first to get into a Emergency Room. Again, the tab is picked up by the VA so no problems there.

Even if I had insurance, I would still go in if something wasn't right. Like when I've gotten Food poisoning. I don't go in as I know the systems well. I do what I already know and I get well. If I am coughing up blood from having a cold or suspected broken bone or something, I will go in. For stupid common stuff like a hang nail or I chipped a nail, then no I don't go in.

 

[Kratos]

I have yet to see anybody refused from our ER due to concerns about payment. The bus pretty much just loads them up and takes them to where they are going to be treated. It looks like the misinformation is scratched on both sides of the wall. Our system is trash; don't get me wrong. I don't see our government improving things by taking over, though. If they would pull their heads out, they could pull it off. I'll keep breathing on that one, though.

 

[MoJoe]

Does something need to be done to fix some issues related to healthcare? Yes, no system is perfect. Now, the important question is does the current bill do the job and will it make the system better? Somehow, I don't think so.

I don't believe for a second that the folks in Congress are the best and brightest people in our country. And in their rush to get something passed I don't think that they've considered anything more than a set of unrelated concepts which were put to paper after Clinton tried to do something about healthcare. The fact of the matter is that Obama is not the architect of this plan. Yet, like the 'Stimulus Package, he's out there selling it as if he is even though he probably never has taken the time to read the 1,000 plus pages of text that makes up the bill.

The problems people have with private insurance is the same thing that folks fear with the Government Insurance - it's rationing on a smaller scale. It wasn't always that way. Government and consumers have distorted the market from one where insurance is used in emergencies and surgery and long term illness to one where insurance picks up the cost to visit the doctor for a cold. Nobody expects their auto insurer to pay for an oil change and nobody expects their home insurer to pay when their refrigerator breaks down or roof needs repair. But health insurers need to pay for everything and simply can't.

I realize that this is part of the problem, but nobody in Washington is debating reality. When they debate it's about PR and winning rather than true solutions to problems. That's why things are as messed up as they are and why there should be a pox on both of their houses - Democrat and Republican.

 

[Nils]

I won't comment on your existing health care system or the one planned by the Obama administration, I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough for that.
What really shocks me is the aggressiveness and viciousness of the debate. Health care is an inflammatory topic everywhere, but the way the debate is being held in the US is truly scary.

 

[Groundhog]

From the Post article:

"In Austria and Germany, if a doctor diagnoses a person as "stressed," medical insurance pays for weekends at a health spa. "

That's the plan I'm opting into if I ever get the chance. I'm shooting for at least one weekend a month.

 

[Nils]

From the Post article:

"In Austria and Germany, if a doctor diagnoses a person as "stressed," medical insurance pays for weekends at a health spa. "

That's the plan I'm opting into if I ever get the chance. I'm shooting for at least one weekend a month.

I stumbled across this one as well. You'll have to be VERY stressed indeed to get your insurance to pay for that....