What's new

The Feather Barber Razor vs The SR? Two Questions.

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
I'm about 40 shaves into the SR shave, but today I used a razor I don't consider a proper straight.

Day before yesterday and again this morning I shaved with the Feather SS barber razor loaded with a Proline blade and got a terrific shave both times. I've not been getting shaves anywhere near this good with a proper straight razor honed by me or honed by anyone else.

A link to my post discussing this morning's shave is here.

upload_2018-11-28_11-1-35.jpeg

I have a couple of questions.
  • Can the straight razor be honed so that it is as sharp as the Proline blade or at least so sharp that the difference between the SR edge and the Proline AC blade edge is insignificant for shaving purposes?
  • Is the Feather SS barber razor superior to the proper straight razor?
I suppose these are really the same question. At least for me they are. I need my razors to be much sharper than any SR I've used so far.

Yeah, the Feather SS barber razor is easier to maintain and all that, but here I'm asking only about the relative comparison of the tools as shaving implements. I'm interested only in the shaves.

I now believe I have good reason to conclude that the issues I've had with the SR aren't issues of technique. The razors I've used have not been sharp enough. With a sharp Proline in the Feather razor using what seems to me to be the same technique my shaves are great.

Either that, or...

upload_2018-11-28_11-19-34.png


It's possible I'm wrong in that conclusion but only if the Feather SS razor is so much different as a tool that it forgives bad technique and yet still delivers a close, comfortable shave.

I'm not trying to tout the Feather barber razor here. My goal is to succeed with the proper SR!

Your thoughts on this?

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
1. I believe certain straights can be honed well enough to rival a Feather. This is subjective, as are all shaving blade reviews, since there is no CATRA testing done on them...so YMMV

2. I have shaved with both and received similar results. I prefer straights because of the self sufficiency (no blades to buy) and more versatility. I find that prep and technique have a lot to do with results. I very, very rarely have a bad shave and when I do it's always related to those two aspects, no matter the hardware.

With a straight I always get a BBS to DFS with two passes. The same with the Feather. Only noted difference on occasion is there may be a teeny less clean up with the Feather.
 
If you use the same angle shaving with a shavette and SR, it could be your technique needs adjustment.

If you want a super sharp blade, run your progression up to .1u diamond paste.
 
  • Can the straight razor be honed so that it is as sharp as the Proline blade or at least so sharp that the difference between the SR edge and the Proline AC blade edge is insignificant for shaving purposes?
  • Is the Feather SS barber razor superior to the proper straight razor
My guess is you have tuff beard, good technique and not very sensitive skin why the Feather might be a better shaving tool for you until you get straight razors that are as sharp and keen as the Proline blade. If you keep honing you are likely get better and better edges. :001_smile
And you might end with preferring straight razors :001_smile:001_smile
 
A specially honed SR can be equally as sharp as the Feather, but most SR shavers prefer their own edges out of comfort and ability to customize edge. For the most part, a properly maintained SR is approximately as sharp as a Feather AC on it’s 3rd shave. The Feather SS is a bit different from a regular SR because of its lip. I won’t say it’s a training wheel, because it’s not, but it does make things easier IMO.

There are many factors that lend to the differences between the two, but that’s the general idea. One is not better than the other until it comes to personal preferences on edge, comfort, aesthetics, and maintenance.
 
...The Feather SS is a bit different from a regular SR because of its lip. I won’t say it’s a training wheel, because it’s not, but it does make things easier IMO....

True. Forgot about that. The "lip" does force your angle a little more, especially the newer AC models.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Very helpful and encouraging posts, gentlemen. Much appreciated.

True. Forgot about that. The "lip" does force your angle a little more, especially the newer AC models.

What does "force your angle" mean? My Feather SS is not very old, just a few months.

I have been offered by a generous member a honing of one of my razors. He uses The Method, and is, by all accounts, very good at it. I've not taken him up on it, but might. In the meantime, I have a couple more stones, a 5K and a 12K, arriving today. They'll be added to my existing group - a Chosera 1K, a 3K N-SS, an 8K Steelex, and the Arkansas hard black - so I'll have a more complete arsenal for practice.

I find it easy enough to hone, but not so easy to know what's necessary. I think using the Feather SS and Proline has established a standard for what I want. I suspect I can achieve it. I'm willing to study and practice honing.

A specially honed SR can be equally as sharp as the Feather, but most SR shavers prefer their own edges out of comfort and ability to customize edge. For the most part, a properly maintained SR is approximately as sharp as a Feather AC on its 3rd shave.

I have no idea what shave my current Proline is on, but I tend to be able to use AC and DE and injector and cartridge blades for a long time. If I can get the SR as sharp as a Proline on its twenty-first shave I should be good.

I'm not in a rush.

Thanks so much,
'
Jim
 
There is sharpness and cutting ability. Commercial disposable blades are treated with a hardening layer and a lubricant meaning they have a more consistent edge retention and less friction.

I cycle between Feather AC razors and straights. A coticule carbon razor feels like night and day to the AC. It's suicide to switch directly between that and the AC.

A Method edge on a straight made out of good quality stainless steel (Böker or Buck) feels very similar with one exception. You need a more hydrated lather to compensate for the increased friction. Then they are identical in feel. YMMV
 
  • Can the straight razor be honed so that it is as sharp as the Proline blade or at least so sharp that the difference between the SR edge and the Proline AC blade edge is insignificant for shaving purposes?
  • Is the Feather SS barber razor superior to the proper straight razor?
Jim


Another question, if you were able to get a SR as sharp as those manufactured blades, could they be easily maintained. I think when we develop the skills to use a blade we need less sharp. I say this based on using my stable of vintage razors. Not all are the same, but all can be made to provide a good shave.
 
To your second question.

Kai Captain, Feather DX, Kai Excelia : the only advantage is a disadvantage. Blade length makes them more maneuverable in tight areas.

Kai Luffy, Feather SS : these are a different shaving experience because of the lip. IF you use the lip as per the literature, you can shave without skin stretching in a very efficient way. I have VERY problematic skin and sometimes this is the only way I can shave to avoid irritation.
 
Forcing the angle means that the way the Feather AC is designed it makes you hold the spine a minimum distance from the face in order to cut hair at skin level. Kind of like a top cap on a DE razor. Look at it straight on with a blade loaded compared to your straight and you’ll see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Another question, if you were able to get a SR as sharp as those manufactured blades, could they be easily maintained. I think when we develop the skills to use a blade we need less sharp. I say this based on using my stable of vintage razors. Not all are the same, but all can be made to provide a good shave.

I agree that just about any safety razor can provide a shave, maybe even a pretty good shave, with the right blade, in the right hands.

As a guy who can shave with the same cartridge razor for months and months I think the blade has to be "sharp enough." Not all blades are, regardless of anything. Trust me on this: If you have any doubt you need to join a particular club mentioned in my sig line!

Shaving with an old cartridge razor (and no, I'm not kidding about having used them for many weeks or a few months) meant shaving with a blade which tugged, no doubt about it, but it still gave me a good shave and it was still comfortable enough. That's not the same as a blade which just won't move and acts like it's hit a brick wall or a row of fence posts.

upload_2018-11-28_18-43-34.png


It was always a huge treat to shave with a new cartridge blade. I was never really sure why I pushed the carts so far. It wasn't really a money issue (well, other than the fact that I knew the items cost a few pennies to make and I wasn't happy paying dollars for them).

upload_2018-11-28_18-47-40.png


My straights haven't been sharp enough. I know that now. In order to fix that problem I've spent money buying stones learned a magic way to hone razors without stones or lapping film. It's like the current tv commercial where the guy at Payton Manning's house meditates.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
To your second question.

Kai Captain, Feather DX, Kai Excelia : the only advantage is a disadvantage. Blade length makes them more maneuverable in tight areas.

Kai Luffy, Feather SS : these are a different shaving experience because of the lip. IF you use the lip as per the literature, you can shave without skin stretching in a very efficient way. I have VERY problematic skin and sometimes this is the only way I can shave to avoid irritation.

I'm doing exactly the same skin stretching with the Feather SS I do with the SR. I mean I'm making a deliberate effort to do so.

It occurs to me that I should mention my notions about stretching the skin.

Historically, I've not been a skin stretcher other than to make facial contortions and twist my neck and such as that. Historically when I've tried more formal skin stretching (that is, with my hand or fingers or a tool like a washcloth) I've gotten irritation, razor burn, or such.

Using the SR I've developed an understanding of how to supplement my general contortions and such with judicious skin stretching using my fingers coated with a bit of alum. Perhaps that is one reason my Feather SS shaves in the last few days have been so much improved over Feather barber razors of the past.

The other reason, that is, the other known to me reason, is the fact that I've learned a lighter touch. At least my touch with the Feather SS seems lighter to me. I don't have a way of being objective in my measurement of it.

To remove from the equation the possibility that the lip of the Feather SS is stretching my skin and thus assisting my shave I should report that I'm using the Feather at a super steep angle while shaving the area right below my nose. Same as with the SR. The lip is miles from my skin while shaving there and can't be a factor. I notice then the sharpness of the Proline; it relatively easily shaves that area whereas the SR leaves lots of whiskers.

Forcing the angle means that the way the Feather AC is designed it makes you hold the spine a minimum distance from the face in order to cut hair at skin level. Kind of like a top cap on a DE razor. Look at it straight on with a blade loaded compared to your straight and you’ll see.

Ah, yes, of course. I thought you must mean something so esoteric I didn't get it. The Feather SS lip is an interesting thing design feature of the razor.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
My straights haven't been sharp enough. I know that now. In order to fix that problem I've spent money buying stones learned a magic way to hone razors without stones or lapping film. It's like the current tv commercial where the guy at Payton Manning's house meditates.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Maybe, just maybe you are correct and you razors haven't been sharp enough. What's the chances that all those razors paraded as shave ready are dull? You must have steel wool for whiskers.
 
I'm doing exactly the same skin stretching with the Feather SS I do with the SR. I mean I'm making a deliberate effort to do so.

It occurs to me that I should mention my notions about stretching the skin.

Historically, I've not been a skin stretcher other than to make facial contortions and twist my neck and such as that. Historically when I've tried more formal skin stretching (that is, with my hand or fingers or a tool like a washcloth) I've gotten irritation, razor burn, or such.

Using the SR I've developed an understanding of how to supplement my general contortions and such with judicious skin stretching using my fingers coated with a bit of alum. Perhaps that is one reason my Feather SS shaves in the last few days have been so much improved over Feather barber razors of the past.

The other reason, that is, the other known to me reason, is the fact that I've learned a lighter touch. At least my touch with the Feather SS seems lighter to me. I don't have a way of being objective in my measurement of it.

To remove from the equation the possibility that the lip of the Feather SS is stretching my skin and thus assisting my shave I should report that I'm using the Feather at a super steep angle while shaving the area right below my nose. Same as with the SR. The lip is miles from my skin while shaving there and can't be a factor. I notice then the sharpness of the Proline; it relatively easily shaves that area whereas the SR leaves lots of whiskers.



Ah, yes, of course. I thought you must mean something so esoteric I didn't get it. The Feather SS lip is an interesting thing design feature of the razor.

Happy shaves,

Jim
Many discussions on here about the correct angle. Feather's own literature shows the lip pressing down into the skin and consequently lifting the hairs. MY experience over 18 months of using an SS is that it is best at a low angle with pressure on the lip and absolutely none on the blade edge. Shaving like this means that the lip is actually doing something and I believe the razor comes into a league of it's own, combining the best of DE, cartridge and straight razor technology.

Yes I know there are tons of videos showing the SS used at a sharp angle, but to misquote @AimlessWanderer on another topic - just because you can drive around with your car in second gear doesn't mean you should.

On this topic everyone's mileage varies.

The Kai Captain and DX are different beasts altogether and take a different shaving angle.
 
On your point about sharpness. My stainless straight razors and a couple of others (notably my Ed Brice razors) that I maintain at a very high sharpness behave like a Feather Artist Club. With these razors I use a very light touch. Vintage Sheffield razors on natural stones are as efficient - in that I can get a closer shave in the same number of passes. I can be more flexible with my strokes and pressure with these razors.

How do you measure the sharpness therefore? On the face of it the Sheffield aren't as sharp, and yet they are more efficient.

Another factor is the lather. In my experience a straight razor needs a wetter lather than the Artists Club needs. This can make a big difference.

The grind of the razor and the hardness of steel is important. A stainless razor can take a sharper edge and a heavier grind deals with my tough stubble more easily. Lots of good preshave prep and the playing field is level between the different types of razor, so I don't notice the difference between the coticule razor and the method razor in terms of efficiency.

I have varied my prep, soap, brush and lathering routine very little over the years when I straight shave. I believe all the factors are more interdependent with straights. I experiment a LOT with DEs and Artist Club on the other hand.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
You say you are using a steep angle for both the shavette and SR?

If you're asking me, the answer is no.

The only place I use a very steep angle is immediately below my nose going N-S. With both the Feather and the SR.

I've tried all sorts of angles elsewhere, but pretty much use the same shallow angle as most of the people talking angles here. With a safety razor I use the razor's design angle (neutral angle) or sometimes steeper.

My whiskers are pretty easy to shave on my cheeks relative to elsewhere. On my neck the problem is the weird beard map stuff, but I can get my neck fairly decently with the SR.

The huge areas (well, not so huge in area) causing me problems are, for me, the usual. Chin. Upper lip (mustache area). Lower lip (above the chin). The worst is my lower lip (with any razor).

All of you gentlemen are giving me good advice and food for thought. You are much appreciated.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
I spent a good amount of time over at scienceofsharp.com trying to see just how sharp a straight razor can reasonably get.

The author over at that site is examining edges so closely he needed to define “sharp” and “keen” differently from one another, with sharp being the radius of the cutting edge itself (measured in nanometers, which are one thousandth of a micron), and keen being the width of the bevel three microns back from the edge (this defining the angle of the steel most directly supporting the cutting edge).

He was able to define a method that works for him to consistently produce an edge that is both sharper and keener than a new feather blade, but only very slightly sharper, and only very slightly keener.

I’ve not built the denim strop needed for his method yet, so I’ve not tried it in earnest. I wanted to wait until i get a few more razors to experiment any more. When I tried to hubridize his approach with “the method” the results were not good.

But yeah, it is possible (and doesn’t even seem that hard) to get edges as sharp or sharper than the famous feather blades.
 
Top Bottom