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The Fat! And about damned time, too! Thanks to Edinburgh!

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Agreed. Any soap will give you that problem if one proceeds as you describe, though, not sure The Fat is any different. I still think it's a myth. I find it as easy to lather as Tabac. Adding too much water at the start was what I was trying to help folks remedy in my lather posts.

In my opinion this thing is easy as pie to lather. People are creating their own problems with it.
You seem very dogmatic. The "wet method" does work with many soaps, especially softer soaps like Cella or many artisan soaps. The wet method is just another way of arriving at the right soap:water ratio. Start with more water and keep adding soap to get where you need to be. This is not always the best way with really hard soaps, though.
 

JCinPA

The Lather Maestro
You seem very dogmatic. The "wet method" does work with many soaps, especially softer soaps like Cella or many artisan soaps. The wet method is just another way of arriving at the right soap:water ratio. Start with more water and keep adding soap to get where you need to be. This is not always the best way with really hard soaps, though.

@Atlantic59 , No, I'm not dogmatic at all, as a matter of fact, I'm far from it. I respectfully suggest you go read both my threads in their entirety again.

I suggest that one can lather some soaps wet, and I'm not against a wet method, if you know your soap and you know it works. You are not telling me anything I did not acknowledge in my threads. As a matter of fact, I think you are saying the same thing I am only approaching it from the other side ...

Start with more water and keep adding soap to get where you need to be. This is not always the best way with really hard soaps, though.

Now there, you've said a mouthful! It absolutely will not work with The Fat. I acknowledged the Marco method works on Italian soft soaps. I acknowledged I start with a teaspoon of water on my B&M before starting. I suggest wet methods may work just fine on many soaps, and I said one need not start dry. You missed the point of those threads entirely if that is what you think I said.

What I said was each product has its own ideal hydration level, and they have unique 'hydration windows', meaning how forgiving they are on either side of the ideal hydration level. I also acknowledged that one may attack soaps they know well without following my process. I don't with B&M, for example. All soaps are a little different. The wet method will not work with The Fat, however, and that's a fact.

What I did say in my threads is that when one gets into trouble, 99% of the time it is because they overshot the proper hydration level at the start. My method is foolproof because you always start below the proper hydration level and work up to it. After a dozen shaves with B&M, I now start very close to the proper hydration level and nail it in pretty short order, but that took a little practice. I used my process to dial that in, but jump right to the end state pretty quickly now.

While your comment that the wet method works with many soaps is true, it won't work with The Fat, but my approach from the other side of the hydration level will. I am not at all dogmatic about what works. I was providing a process to use when one has trouble lathering, that is guaranteed to get you out of trouble, in short order. And when familiar with a product, the shaver can graduate from my process to something that gets to the right lather quicker.

So, back to The Fat. It is easy to lather. That is not YMMV, it's a fact. YMMV is largely confined to preferences, you like aggressive, I like mild, you like sharp, I like smooth, you like citrusy, I like earthy, etcetera. And that is all well and good, because it's true, in preference, YMM indeed V. Not so with facts, though. Feather is a sharper blade than a Dorco. That's a fact. A Red Tip is a more aggressive razor than an Edwin Jagger DE89. That is also a fact. You may prefer one to the other, but you cannot argue that a Red Tip is less aggressive than an EJ DE89, that's just not true, your perception notwithstanding. Well, I suppose one could argue it, but they'd look silly doing it.

Which gets me back to The Fat. I don't argue that some have not had trouble lathering it, that is their true experience. However, that experience does not make The Fat "difficult to lather". It simply means theyre approaching it the wrong way. Williams is a little difficult, even though I used it for decades, I have to admit that. B&M Reserve, one of my personal favorites can be a little tricky to dial in at first, I have to admit that. But The Fat? I'm sorry, it's just not that hard. If you find it hard, you're doing it wrong. My method will get you out of the woods in very short order. Even Marco is not going to have success using the Marco Method on The Fat. That doesn't make the Marco method wrong nor does it make The Fat difficult to lather.

I'm not dogmatic about how one lathers. I am dogmatic about how one goes about methodically solving lather issues they are having, and I stand by my FoolProof Lather Method(TM) guarantee. I'm the fool, and I'm the proof :lol:. The Fat is an easy to lather soap, if you're having trouble with it, it's you, not the soap. I won't go that far with soaps like Williams or B&M Reserve, which can be tricky. Wool Fat is just not tricky. At all.
 
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@Atlantic59 , No, I'm not dogmatic at all, as a matter of fact, I'm far from it. I respectfully suggest you go read both my threads in their entirety again.

Oh, dear, I seem to have touched a nerve, oops! :laugh:

I must confess I am not familiar with your Complete Works on Lathering in their entirety.

I usually prefer heuristic methods, i.e. find out for yourself through experimentation what works, rather than taking things on authority.
 
Welcome to the Order of the Fat! It is a most marvelous soap. Now you just need the classic ceramic bowl. I think a boar brush is a great choice for the Fat. But how's the Haslinger working? That's my other standby, along with Tabac and Cella. This month I've been using Williams, an okay soap but drying for me.
 
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