The 'Do you finish with a Coticule?' thread!!

[MajorBurnz]

Recently, petr started a thread asking:

"Who is using them? Exclusively to finish?

What was the learning curve like?

Very romantic they are. Natural. I'm eyeballing a few, but can't figure out what the negatives are of using them, especially in finishing. "

This thread quickly devolved into an acrimonious battle between several people who are very good at honing, and petr's original question was pushed into the background.

So, I'm restarting the thread, with a stipulation that ONLY these questions be answered:

1) Do you finish on a coticule?

2) If yes, then do you know the layer(s) of the coticules you've finished on? Are they vintage, or newly mined?

3) If you do finish on a coticule, how long did it take before you got to the point of getting consistently good edges?

4) What's the size of the stone you most prefer?

5) If you don't consider the coticule a worthy finisher, what to you usually use to finish your edges?

6) In general, what other hones do you also use for finishing?

7) What, to your mind, is the best thing about honing with coticules? (Keep this to 2-3 lines of text).

NOTE: There should be no discussion on this thread about the previous one. No recriminations, etc.

NOTE2: If you think there's some aspect about honing with the coticule that I haven't covered, then please let me know, and I'll add the question to the list.

 

[MajorBurnz]

I'll start off the answers:

1) Yes I do, frequently.

2) I have one vintage, and several newly mined coticules. I have a Les Latneuses, a La Petite Blanche, and a couple of hones from unknown layers.

3) It varied with each hone. With my first coticule (natural combo - unknown layer), it took me about 30 mins to get my first lovely edge, and I've only improved on that minimally since. It took the longest time to learn how to get great edges off my hardest hone. It is very difficult to raise an adequate slurry on that one.

4) I get great edges off my 2" x 6" hone, but my favourite size is 1.25" x 8".

5) N/A

6) I use an Asagi, a Kiita, a suita, a Droescher and lapping film, and get very nice edges off all of them. I prefer the natural hones to the film.

7) Best thing about the coticules: I can go from my DMT 8000 to a finished edge on a single hone. Edges are smooth and 'cut hair, not skin'.

 

[thanks]

1) Do you finish on a coticule?
Yes, almost exclusively. Sometimes on a small Thuringian.

2) If yes, then do you know the layer(s) of the coticules you've finished on? Are they vintage, or newly mined?
No clue. Newly mined.

3) If you do finish on a coticule, how long did it take before you got to the point of getting consistently good edges?
Only finishing? My first coticule gave me problems and it took a couple weeks to dial in the finish on it. My latest coticule bout immediately gave me excellent edges very easily.

4) What's the size of the stone you most prefer?
200mmX40mm

5) If you don't consider the coticule a worthy finisher, what to you usually use to finish your edges?
N/A.

6) In general, what other hones do you also use for finishing?
Small Thuringian.

7) What, to your mind, is the best thing about honing with coticules? (Keep this to 2-3 lines of text).
Feedback, and smoothness of edge.

 

[Joe Edson]

1) Yes

2) No idea, all 3 are vintage from eBay. Haven't used my latest one yet, but of the 2 I own, one is a faster cutter for dulicot over other. Both finish roughly the same

3) Not there yet as I've only honed about 5 razors. Dulicot is definitely improving as are my edges from finishing.

4) 150-175mm x 35-40mm

5) N/A

6) Thuringian or Escher after coti as I think they give a smoother and sharper blade, though barely noticeable. Coti edges are just fine for me.

7) I can do the entire honing on one stone. Usually set bevel with DMT 1200 then away I go on coti with dulicot method to finishing.

 

[ouch]

I recently started using a coticule. I have no idea where it came from. Since it's a rock, I'm guessing its age is in the hundreds of millions of years range.

It's 200mm x 50mm, and seems to be a nice size. I never thought I would enjoy a narrower stone, but it's very easy to use. The feedback seems perfect. I've tried unicot, dilucot, tricot, and quadricot, and believe that far too much is made of systems. Perhaps that's a result of my knife sharpening experience, which has at least as many suggestions, theories, and stories attached to the subject. Ultimately, I think that sharpening anything boils down to a blade, a rock, and a man, and that technique triumphs over tools.

I've used a Kitayama, Naniwas, and Shaptons to finish, and for whatever reason I seem to have less trouble using the coticule. I still use a CrOx/diamond pasted strop for touch ups.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the coticule and I enjoy using it. That alone will allow for more improvement in my sharpening.

 

[gary haywood]

1. yes i do

2.i use a les latneusus, la grosse jaune, la vainettee, l drassante au blue.

3.it took me a good thew months as i was using the coticule from start to finish and did not realize slurry dulled the edge .

4. if i had to choose one size it would be 175x40 t0 50. i do like 200x60.

5.i do think my coticules are worthy finishers and don't use any thing else nower days, i do like ti rasoir paste or cro.ox ,coticule edge when honed well is smoother than any cro.ox

6. now i only use coticules , second choice would be 12k naniwa or escher any natural hone . or paste
7.the feed back ,the feel, using slurry, using just one hone , the looks of the stones. and what they can acheive.

 

[Bart]

1) Do you finish on a coticule?

Yes.

2) If yes, then do you know the layer(s) of the coticules you've finished on? Are they vintage, or newly mined?

Vintage and recently mined. Of the recently mined, I usually know the layer names.

3) If you do finish on a coticule, how long did it take before you got to the point of getting consistently good edges?

For finishing already sufficiently keen edges, honed to the level of a Chosera 10K, I got consistently more comfortable edges (for my beard and skin) immediately. Learning how to get the required keenness without relying on other hones for that, took me about 18 months of experimentation.

4) What's the size of the stone you most prefer?

40mm X 175mm

5) If you don't consider the coticule a worthy finisher, what to you usually use to finish your edges?

80-90% of my honing is on Coticules

6) In general, what other hones do you also use for finishing?

Various BBWs (in experimental stage) and occasionally my Nakayama.

7) What, to your mind, is the best thing about honing with coticules? (Keep this to 2-3 lines of text).

The superb discern the edge makes between whiskers and skin. The tactile pleasure of using them. The ease of just one hone, that requires no soaking. The artisan challenge.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[SliceOfLife]

1) Yes

2) No idea. Most of mine are vintage. I've got 2 new ones that Bart could probably identify, but I really don't care enough to bother him.

3) Finishing after 8k with light slurry then water? Immediately. Dulicot took a few trys to get the hang of.

4) Hmm. 1"-2" by 8"

5)

6) Thuringian and Nakayama Karasu most times... occasionally also: Yellow Lake or arkansas.

7) Readily available. Still mined so costs aren't out of control. Can go from bevel to one of the better shaving edges out there on a single stone. They're pretty. Learning curve is overstated. I'd say it was a few hours work before I could get a shaving edge. I'm still learning on them but after maybe 100-200hrs on them I'd consider myself reasonably skilled.

 

[ouch]

1) Do you finish on a coticule?

Yes.

You could have knocked me over with a feather.

 

[domino]

@-Ian S.
Do you use oil or water on the arkansas?

 

[SliceOfLife]

Oil. I haven't been impressed with arkansas + water. I'd say a finish similar to my DMT 8k used that way. (I haven't done much work to see why that is, quite possible that's the finish because the stone clogs almost immediately and I'm going to the arkansas off of a DMT 8k). Finish off oil varies from stone to stone. 8-10k (using Mesh/DMT scale) on the newer ones I've used, but I have two vintage black arkansas that seem close to if not quite the equal of my Thuringians. At least competitive with my coti's. My vintage Trans is a little below that. I have a third vintage black, but it is heavily worn (very wavy) and I haven't had a chance to lap it.

 

[domino]

I don't see them mentioned that often on the boards. Thanks for answering my question and more...

 

[Walker]

1) Do you finish on a coticule? Yes

2) If yes, then do you know the layer(s) of the coticules you've finished on? Are they vintage, or newly mined? I don't know. I have 3 one i belive to be vintage and the other 2 are new

3) If you do finish on a coticule, how long did it take before you got to the point of getting consistently good edges? Still working on that. I can shave off of my honing but to call it a consistently good edge would be lying.

4) What's the size of the stone you most prefer? My largest is a 6X2 so for now it is that one.

5) If you don't consider the coticule a worthy finisher, what to you usually use to finish your edges? I do

6) In general, what other hones do you also use for finishing? Coti's are my only finisher

7) What, to your mind, is the best thing about honing with coticules? To be able to go from dull to shave ready on one stone is a great advantage. I have other hones at home but at my job it saves me from having to travel with a bunch of different hones.

 

[LessLemming]

1) Do you finish on a coticule?
Yes, it is one of my 3 go-to Finishers. The other two are Shapton GS 30k and Nakayama Kiita.

2) If yes, then do you know the layer(s) of the coticules you've finished on? Are they vintage, or newly mined?
Yes, I know. It is a La Petite Blanche non selected, my other has been a La Verte/La Grise. Both are non vintage (I refuse to call them "new")


3) If you do finish on a coticule, how long did it take before you got to the point of getting consistently good edges?
Not very long. I got a coticule at a very late point of my honing learning curve. However there are inconsistencies with my LPB and mini-mikro chips (not affekting the shaving quality)

4) What's the size of the stone you most prefer?
200x60mm is the LPB

5) If you don't consider the coticule a worthy finisher, what to you usually use to finish your edges?
It is a perfectly worhty finisher. However there are competetors that give outstanding edges like Shapton GS 30k and Nakayama

6) In general, what other hones do you also use for finishing?
Shapton GS 30k, GS 16k + Pasted strop, Nakayama Kiita, Small vintage Thüringer, Coticule, 1µm or 0.5µm diamond spray, 0.3µm Cr2O3 Spray, Shapton Pro 12k plus pasted strop

7) What, to your mind, is the best thing about honing with coticules? (Keep this to 2-3 lines of text)
The best thing about *my* Coticule LPB is that it is quick after a good 12k finish and it does not diminish the quality of the polish.
My other coticule as well as my Nakayama and any other natural I tried left scratches on a bevel that was perfectly mirrored before. My LPB does not produce scratches if used reasonably. Otherwise the Coticule gives good edges with very good shaving qualities. Sharp and smooth

 

[Leon]

1) Do you finish on a coticule?
Sometimes on a coticule, other times on a small Thuringian.

2) If yes, then do you know the layer(s) of the coticules you've finished on? Are they vintage, or newly mined?
No idea. I've bought my coticule some years ago directly from the Ardennes mine.

3) If you do finish on a coticule, how long did it take before you got to the point of getting consistently good edges?
A couple of weeks

4) What's the size of the stone you most prefer?
I only have one. It's long and narrow, perfect for straight razors. It's 6''x1 3/4''

5) If you don't consider the coticule a worthy finisher, what to you usually use to finish your edges?
NA

6) In general, what other hones do you also use for finishing?
Small Thuringian.

7) What, to your mind, is the best thing about honing with coticules? (Keep this to 2-3 lines of text).
You can use one single stone from start to finish. Set the bevel with a heavy slurry and work your way up the grit by slowly adding drops of water.

 

[honed]

You could have knocked me over with a feather.

Wouldn't it have been fun if the answer was "Heck no, I never let my razors touch those atrocities, I'm only in it for the money "

 

[honed]

1) Do you finish on a coticule?
Yes
2) If yes, then do you know the layer(s) of the coticules you've finished on? Are they vintage, or newly mined?
A newly mined "La Grise"

3) If you do finish on a coticule, how long did it take before you got to the point of getting consistently good edges?
Since my coticule was my first stone, it took some practice.
First good edge took a few night.
Consistently good edge a few nights more(unicot) & a couple of weeks (dilucot)

4) What's the size of the stone you most prefer?
My only stone is a bout, 21.5cm long. 5,5cm at base, 3cm at top.
A very nice bout-size I must say.
The narrow part is excellent for warped old framebacks & Sheffield wedges.
If I was to get another one, I'd opt for 15x4 cm.

5) If you don't consider the coticule a worthy finisher, what to you usually use to finish your edges?
It is worthy!

6) In general, what other hones do you also use for finishing?
Naniwa 10K & recently a J-nat "Awaseto Honyama" & sometimes CroX or a vintage paste (probably aluminum)

7) What, to your mind, is the best thing about honing with coticules? (Keep this to 2-3 lines of text).
The edges it creates, the perfect combo of smoooothness&keeness.
The feedback, the best feedback of all stones I've tried & the fact that you can hone a razor from dull to shave-ready with one stone.
And the history of course!

 

[Bart]

You could have knocked me over with a feather.

Yes, I'm full of surprises.

 

[danjared]

1) Do you finish on a coticule?

Two, trying to sell a third.

2) If yes, then do you know the layer(s) of the coticules you've finished on? Are they vintage, or newly mined?

A newly mined La Grise (select grade 200mm by 50mm) and a vintage Pike-brand coticule (180mm by 40mm), which might be from Les Petas vein. The Grise is slow but easily leaves a fine finish. The Pike is very fast but more challenging to get maximum keenness out of. I'm still learning on that one.

3) If you do finish on a coticule, how long did it take before you got to the point of getting consistently good edges?

It took me a while. In fact, I consider myself pretty picky and not quite satisfied (especially since I took a break of a few months from any serious razor fun), so I consider myself still working on it.

4) What's the size of the stone you most prefer?

40-50mm wide, 7-8" long

5) If you don't consider the coticule a worthy finisher, what to you usually use to finish your edges?

N/A

6) In general, what other hones do you also use for finishing?

Thuringian, pedigreed Nakayama asagi/kiita, translucent Arkansas, rarely a chrome oxide pasted strop.

7) What, to your mind, is the best thing about honing with coticules? (Keep this to 2-3 lines of text).

Versality, beauty, good price-point, legacy. Oh, and it's a natural hone complete with quirks. There's no one to tell you to do exactly N strokes.

 

[pz93c]

Nope. Have it done the first time and maintain with a 2 line Swaty.