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The Curse of Branding a.k.a. If You Can't Build it, STOP!

It's a funny title to a thread, but here we are. In this wet shaving revival we have more and more companies sprouting around the world, all of them offering something 'new', while that is, most definitely, not the case.
As with most things in these cancerous times, we have a problem with companies trying to fit every single bill, even though they don't have the tradition, nor real reason to do so, other than make money. And unlike before, they won't make an effort on trying to do one thing and do it good, and if they want to add something new to the assortment, to add it gradually, learning the ropes as we go. And following these trends, where we have newborn cell-phone companies who buy bulk unbranded cellphones from Chinese companies and just rebrand them, we have the same occuring in the wet shaving world.
We have a traditionally brush making company trying to make everything from soaps, to razors to blades. I'm talking about Mühle, of course. Don't get me wrong, the products are great, but on all videos of their beautiful factory, all I see in actual production are brushes (as it should be). The razors shown are only in assembly there. The soaps and creams are third party, the blades are Personna with twice the price tag. Why? Why is this necessary? I mean, it's cool to have a fashionable brand, but come on.
The same with G&F, they make the razors, they make the blades apparently, but they have brushes 'made in the EU'.
Razorock, by all accounts, joining the kickstarter 'look at me I have such a cool idea, support me so I can outsource the actual physical production far east' , makes the razors in China, also Rockwell.
Basically the only ones I see trying to do one thing, and do it as best as they can (and meanwhile not being in the unaffordable range), are Fatip.

I mean, I understand it's fair game in this globalised village, but for me, it's not made by you, if a subcontractor makes it in China, and you're only pushing papers in Germany/France/US, don't care how many designs you do.

Sorry for the tone, but it's a bit frustrating.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
I've no problem with outsourcing, but don't like rebranding. I don't mind if the company whose name is on the item have had creative input in the product design or development, and takes responsibility for the standards of manufacture, but if they're just going to buy something with their name printed on, I'm not interested.
 
Okay. Point taken. Yet...

Here in Michigan we once made the cars. Still assemble some. But today the airbags might come from Japan, the transmission from Mexico, and the seats from Canada.

It is still referred to as domestic, or American.

Welcome to 2018. Want a 100% American car? Maybe a '56 Buick?

It is a given that companies today are gonna outsource. Could be some products, could be payroll, could be IT support. Sure, there are exceptions. Like Santa's workshop, but I hear the elves are not paid overtime!

It behooves the consumer to take a second look to see what they are buying, naturally.
 
I agree with mac. Hard to find anything fully conceived, sourced and and manufactured here. That’s the global world we live in. Though i feel like it’s worth pointing out that you CAN find a lot of stuff that fits the bill if you’re willing to spend the time and money.

There are razor manufacturers that handmake both DE and straight razors, artisan soaps, and probably some brushes too. I think the Personna Lab Blues and med preps are the only DE blades still made in the US, but it is possible to outfit yourself with only US made stuff. Problem is limiting choice and expense.

I do wish more products were made here and i think rebranding an existing product is disingenuous, but overall i think the multitude of choices we have now far outweighs the lack of products being made here. In the “heyday” of wet shaving, the choices for razors, blades and brushes/soaps was tiny compared to now. Personally i’ll take now over then.
 
Basically the only ones I see trying to do one thing, and do it as best as they can (and meanwhile not being in the unaffordable range), are Fatip.

Fatips are pretty lovable. The Premax cottage industry business model seems improbable, but apparently it is working. Affordable? I’ve got five. A couple are the older, hungrier models. Fatip must have a strong European market.

Karve is admirable as well, with more affordable pricing than other legitimately artisan first world makers. Mine has a nice short handle! I really can’t fault outfits like Above the Tie, Timeless and Blackland for their approach and pricing, I just won’t spend that much unless I am convinced I will love the razor. And now I own and enjoy a couple ATT heads bought on BST.

I also like Phoenix Artisan Accoutrements. Not an artisan maker, often takes a design revivalist approach, but their razor products are well thought out, quality goods at reasonable price points and definitely not just re-brands. I am not a big buyer of soft goods, but I don’t resent PAA selling in all categories. More power to them!
 
there are tons of brands out there the best part is that we are free to choose and buy anything we want. It can be very overwhelming for sure.

I like to stick with the staples and the products I'm comfortable with as far as pricing is concerned, the whole point of this is too save money, not spend $15 a week on a new "must have" soap and or "flavor of the week".
 
There's a new DE razor at Target. I forget the name. I took one look at it and saw immediately that it was a rebranded Baili, made in China. I think it was $26. They're like 10 bucks on ebay. And don't get me started on The Art of Shaving! $65.00 for a Merkur 34c. DE shaving had opened the doors to a few scams here and there.

I bought nearly all vintage Gillettes for my collection. No overpriced modern razors for me, thank you very much!
 
Okay. Point taken. Yet...

Here in Michigan we once made the cars. Still assemble some. But today the airbags might come from Japan, the transmission from Mexico, and the seats from Canada.

It is still referred to as domestic, or American.

Welcome to 2018. Want a 100% American car? Maybe a '56 Buick?

It is a given that companies today are gonna outsource. Could be some products, could be payroll, could be IT support. Sure, there are exceptions. Like Santa's workshop, but I hear the elves are not paid overtime!

It behooves the consumer to take a second look to see what they are buying, naturally.

Not the same, even though I don't like shaving companies buying parts for their razors, it's sometimes only parts. What I detest are two things: buying bulk mass produced chinese stuff and rebrand it + when you try to do everything, even though you're not in that line of work. Why does Mühle have to take a Wilkinson styptic and rebrand it? Why do they have to produce soaps, that they DON'T ACTUALLY PRODUCE. I know it's fair game, but it gets the best of me. I can't back it up, but suspect Mühle actually only assembles the razors, I only see them making brushes (which they were fantastic at for a century). But they are less of an issue, as the goods are still great, but when I see Weishis and Bailis rebranded all over the place.
For instance, I see G&F & Merkur making their 3-piece razors all in-house. G&F also makes inhouse blades. Merkur than, as far as I can tell, gets blades from Medyna Solingen. Both get brushes from third party.
Really, in the affordable range I can't find a company producing 100% in-house other than Fatip (though I am a G&F fanboy, I think they're hitting big in the next few years if they sort out the quirks and work more on their marketing).
 
It's a funny title to a thread, but here we are. In this wet shaving revival we have more and more companies sprouting around the world, all of them offering something 'new', while that is, most definitely, not the case.
As with most things in these cancerous times, we have a problem with companies trying to fit every single bill, even though they don't have the tradition, nor real reason to do so, other than make money. And unlike before, they won't make an effort on trying to do one thing and do it good, and if they want to add something new to the assortment, to add it gradually, learning the ropes as we go. And following these trends, where we have newborn cell-phone companies who buy bulk unbranded cellphones from Chinese companies and just rebrand them, we have the same occuring in the wet shaving world.
We have a traditionally brush making company trying to make everything from soaps, to razors to blades. I'm talking about Mühle, of course. Don't get me wrong, the products are great, but on all videos of their beautiful factory, all I see in actual production are brushes (as it should be). The razors shown are only in assembly there. The soaps and creams are third party, the blades are Personna with twice the price tag. Why? Why is this necessary? I mean, it's cool to have a fashionable brand, but come on.
The same with G&F, they make the razors, they make the blades apparently, but they have brushes 'made in the EU'.
Razorock, by all accounts, joining the kickstarter 'look at me I have such a cool idea, support me so I can outsource the actual physical production far east' , makes the razors in China, also Rockwell.
Basically the only ones I see trying to do one thing, and do it as best as they can (and meanwhile not being in the unaffordable range), are Fatip.

I mean, I understand it's fair game in this globalised village, but for me, it's not made by you, if a subcontractor makes it in China, and you're only pushing papers in Germany/France/US, don't care how many designs you do.

Sorry for the tone, but it's a bit frustrating.

Sheffield and Solingen factories were making razors for American companies in the 1800's.
 
I've no problem with outsourcing, but don't like rebranding. I don't mind if the company whose name is on the item have had creative input in the product design or development, and takes responsibility for the standards of manufacture, but if they're just going to buy something with their name printed on, I'm not interested.

Great point!! :a14::a14:
 

Raven Koenes

My precious!
Fatips are pretty lovable. The Premax cottage industry business model seems improbable, but apparently it is working. Affordable? I’ve got five. A couple are the older, hungrier models. Fatip must have a strong European market.
I believe they do. When they first released the Piccolo Special Edition this summer it was released first in Italy, then Connaught, and then Gifts and Care in Spain. The first run literally sold out in a month. I do like that the Artisan Guild concept is alive and well in Italy still. The Fazzini Family (Fatip) has been in the cutlery business since the 12th Century. Ilario Fazzini expanded the family guild into DE razors when he bought the machinery to do so from a defunct Italian DE manufacturer in the 1980's. It's a pretty neat story actually which I wish I knew more of.
 
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Raven Koenes

My precious!
I like the concept of think locally act globally. This means an inter-connectivity with the community in which you were raised and a way of giving back. It's global because merchandise can easily be sold in the international market place. In the west this concept is turned upside down on its head. Outsourcing is about profit with little or no connection to community. The Chinese manufacturers understand how to think locally while acting globally. The result is they are able to dominate the market place effectively.
 
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Not the same, even though I don't like shaving companies buying parts for their razors, it's sometimes only parts. What I detest are two things: buying bulk mass produced chinese stuff and rebrand it + when you try to do everything, even though you're not in that line of work. Why does Mühle have to take a Wilkinson styptic and rebrand it? Why do they have to produce soaps, that they DON'T ACTUALLY PRODUCE. I know it's fair game, but it gets the best of me. I can't back it up, but suspect Mühle actually only assembles the razors, I only see them making brushes (which they were fantastic at for a century). But they are less of an issue, as the goods are still great, but when I see Weishis and Bailis rebranded all over the place.
For instance, I see G&F & Merkur making their 3-piece razors all in-house. G&F also makes inhouse blades. Merkur than, as far as I can tell, gets blades from Medyna Solingen. Both get brushes from third party.
Really, in the affordable range I can't find a company producing 100% in-house other than Fatip (though I am a G&F fanboy, I think they're hitting big in the next few years if they sort out the quirks and work more on their marketing).

I believe they do. When they first released the Piccolo Special Edition this summer it was released first in Italy, then Connaught, and then Gifts and Care in Spain. The first run literally sold out in a month. I do like that the Artisan Guild concept is alive and well in Italy still. The Fazzini Family (Fatip) has been in the cutlery business since the 12th Century. Ilario Fazzini expanded the family guild into DE razors when he bought the machinery to do so from a defunct Italian DE manufacturer in the 1980's. It's a pretty neat story actually which I wish I knew more of.

I am appreciating this thread for the insights on the actual practices and backgrounds of particular shaving sellers and/or producers. For me, that goes above and beyond the different thoughtful takes B&B members have on the roles those sellers/produces choose to play in marketing. I wish I could contribute more on how various companies manufacture and source their products.
 
though I am a G&F fanboy, I think they're hitting big in the next few years if they sort out the quirks and work more on their marketing

A little off topic, but it might tell us more about @Franz_Biberkopf's taste in razors:

For anyone who wants to check out G&F razors before they hit the USA big time, seitz-global's website might be a good source. I bought something from them via 'that big auction site', but their website prices are lower and their shipping page claims free shipping worldwide. I experienced pretty darned fast international shipping and copious order status updates.

I don't know the exact relationship between G&F and Timor. Same company? Close relations? Branding in transition? Are the inexpensive G&F TTOs made in Germany?

I like my G&F Gentle Shaver 1353K - a Made-in-Germany three piece zamak OC head with a short stainless handle. The blade exposure seems more symmetrical when the base plate and top cap are in one of their 180 degree assembled orientations than the other. Not a big issue for me. I would cheerfully buy several more of the short stainless handles if they were sold separately.

As an Oregonian and a proud red-headed stepchild of Oregon State University, I am a little bit of a 'beaver head' myself. Whatever that means...
BennyBeaver.jpg
 
Timor is a brand of Giesen & Forsthoff company :) Like Big Mac is a brand of burger of McDonalds. Though on my packaging, the Gentle Shaver is not branded as Timor, but solely G&F.
 
Additionally, @Tanuki, the TTO range is made in China, pretty sure it's a Weishi. Far as I can tell, that's the first DE model they sold years ago. The three piece razors are, according per multiple sources and g&f themselves, entirely produced in-house.

Not to be too much of a fanboy, since I'm not affiliated with them in any way, but in my experience, their customer service is the best I've encountered in my years of wet shaving. On par with Mühle I'd say, though Mühle is a different beast entirely as it's a really global company.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
 
Bluebeards revenge or viking? as its known in the US? Don't actually make a single item in their catalog of wet shaving I'd think. Just laser etched with their logo and such. And at higher prices.
 
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