Practice with a kitchen knife on them and once you get a decent edge on it you'll get a better idea how the stone behaves. I got a bunch of coticules and each one has its own quirks except 2 old glassy ones that are almost identical in use.
The coticule is the truth!
- Thread starter nicepatina
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Thin CA glue is your best bet. Very easy to do. Not even worth sending back when it is such a easy fix like that.
Tape up the sides with some painters tape,electrical tape, or other tape that will not leave residue as it will come out the sides if you put to much.
Stand it up and places a couple of drops and you will see it wick down into the crack. Keep filling a drop at a time untill it fils up. Slowly squeeze and clean up any extra that seeps out. Like Empire says place something with some weight on it and leave for 24 hours. Thin CA cures fast.
If a little seeped out while drying and it bothers you, some 320-400 wet/dry sandpaper will take it off.
With new honers it is almost always the bevel is not fully set. You should be able to cut hair at skin level if your bevel is fully set.
Second most probable is you overhoned and created a false edge, fin edge, or burr as it can be called but it is the same thing. You can strop (10-15 laps) after bevel setting and see if you can still cut hair at skin level to make sure.
Another not as common way to accidently kill or damage your edge is incorrectly stroping. Slow down untill you get it down. New honers can strop too fast and not realise they are damaging their edges. Wait till muscle memory kicks in and then you can speed it up.
Don't loose hope as it is not as hard as you think. Just give it some time to learn the basics. When you get the aha moment it will be very worth it.
Don't be afraid to ask any questions. Even some that sound "dumb" we have all been there and will gladly help you though. Then it will be easy peasy.
Thank you for the encouragement. I think the problem does have to do with setting the bevel. I am able to cut hair at skin level, but I am not able to get as sharp of an edge as I would like, and it takes a very long time to get even that. "over/honing" sounds likely.
I don't think stropping is the main problem, I feel I have a good grasp of stropping. I also got myself a flat board "paddle" type strop, to make sure I an not rolling the bevel.
I have heard some people set the bevel on a 600 grid to speed things up and get a proper bevel. I don't have a 600 but I have a good 400 stone.
I realize this is not common, but thoughts on using a 400 grid Naniwa professional for bevel setting are welcome.
If it’s black/dark grey it’s slate—don’t hone on it. I also bought an LV Select Plus from them recently and it is slate backed
400 is doable but it will give you more mid-range work. To make sure you earased your 400 scratch pattern.
Before that, if you think you created a burr just kill the edge on the side of your coticule. Very lightly(weight of the razor type thing) pass the edge on the side of the yellow part of your coticule to kill the edge. You should be able to set with a 2000-6000 synthetic very easy. No need to drop down to a 400.
Before we get ahead of ourselves, "what is your progression of synthetic stones?" What brand also I forgot which one you said. My bad.
That will give a better idea of what to suggest for you.
My biggest mistake with coticules at first was starting with too thick a slurry and letting it get too dry. Then you’re either dulling the the blade or just treading water.
Try a slurry about like skim milk, don’t use crazy heavy pressure, and dilute to plain water within 10 steps. You can do x strokes all day long on a coticule on plain water with light pressure and do no damage.
Second—you don’t always need to set a bevel. If you get a new razor and it shaves arm hair all up and down the blade, you don’t need to set the bevel. It probably needs to be honed to get a comfortable edge, but if it shaves the bevel is set.
Bevel setting is recommended too often in these forums, I think.
I just bought 2 factory fresh Dovos, and only did Bart T’s “Power Refresh”. That’s all they needed and shave better than anything else I have, and I didn’t put any hone wear on the spine to speak of (I do dilucot—not unicot)
I’ve destroyed more than my fair share of good razors thinking the first thing I needed to do was set the bevel.
Some coticules don't even really need slurry in my opinion. All of them will get there on their own faster than a hard ark would i imagine. My little palm size les lat will set a bevel on a pocket knife fairly quick with a little pressure on plain water(5 min give or take). I dished my rock a mm so I don't do that now because the yellow side is too soft for knives. I have some old hard ones that will do it and not dish though, at least at the pressure I'm using. Those garnets melt any knife of steel away. Coarse bbws get used on my hatchet a lot and that's pretty hard steel, without question.
Why would setting the bevel destroy a razor?
If you are using it with slurry, you need to avoid too much, and especially a too dry slurry. Since these garnets are not breaking down, I keep the slurry light and renew it if I need to. Heavy slurry can be difficult to recover from with some stones.
You can also use it after something like an 5-8 k, and just use it with water.
I have always liked the results better if I use slurry.
Some of these coticules needs a little pressure (not allot) to cut effectively. This is something you need to figure out with your particular stone. Doing light finishing strokes from start to finish might not work well.
Maybe you could start a new thread where you go into more detail to get better help.
If you have a fast La Veinnette, just refreshing the surface might be enough to get the stone to cut fast enough. Part of the reason I like both the Les latneuses and e.g. the La Veinnette coticules is because they work so well with just a light slurry.
My hard and glassy La Grise needs more of a full dilution process. And it does require more attention to the surface prep. They can be both frustrating and rewarding.
My hard and glassy La Grise needs more of a full dilution process. And it does require more attention to the surface prep. They can be both frustrating and rewarding.
Thank you All for input.
It's so long since I did any honing that I had to look up the specs, but the stock of stones I ended up using most was all Japanese wetstones:
Naniwa professional, 1000, 5000 (I believe I also got a 3000 and 6000, but not Naniwa professional)
Naniwa Super Stone, 8000, 12000
I used to flatten them all on 300 grid sandpaper.
Then as said, I have a couple of coticules, the one I used the most being a La Veinettte (is what I was told by Ardennes Coticule when I ordered it). I ended up using it just for finishing, though initially I used it with slurry after "setting the bevel" on my 1000 stone
After using the coticule, I would just give the knife a good stropping on linen and leather.
When I skipped the coticule (using my 12000 stone), I would strop on leather with paste, before regular stropping.
I don't have the hones at hand right now, but when I return home I will try to get started honing again. I really miss my straight razor shaves, but without a decent edge, DE shaving is just more enjoyable. Will get back once I have tried out some of your suggestions.
It's so long since I did any honing that I had to look up the specs, but the stock of stones I ended up using most was all Japanese wetstones:
Naniwa professional, 1000, 5000 (I believe I also got a 3000 and 6000, but not Naniwa professional)
Naniwa Super Stone, 8000, 12000
I used to flatten them all on 300 grid sandpaper.
Then as said, I have a couple of coticules, the one I used the most being a La Veinettte (is what I was told by Ardennes Coticule when I ordered it). I ended up using it just for finishing, though initially I used it with slurry after "setting the bevel" on my 1000 stone
After using the coticule, I would just give the knife a good stropping on linen and leather.
When I skipped the coticule (using my 12000 stone), I would strop on leather with paste, before regular stropping.
I don't have the hones at hand right now, but when I return home I will try to get started honing again. I really miss my straight razor shaves, but without a decent edge, DE shaving is just more enjoyable. Will get back once I have tried out some of your suggestions.
I guess it depends on what you mean by setting the bevel.
I use the Burr method, which means honing on one side till a burr is raised on the other all up and down the blade, then honing on the other until a burr is raised on the first side. This is repeated until the same number of strokes on each side will raise a burr on the other. Then you work on honing off the burr. Raising the burr on each side proves the bevel is set.
This removes a lot of metal (and causes significant spine wear), and only needs to be done once (hopefully at the factory), or if there is significant damage to the blade (like after a chip is honed off or other structural repair).
Never done the burr method, I prefer to go back and forth until I am set al the way.
I find most razors need some sort of roll or at least small adjustments to make sure the whole edge/bevel hits the stone and I can't do that going up and down on one side of the razor. I can live without the heel being spot on because I dont use the heel of my razors but the toe has to be perfect.
One trick that works. Use tape for the bevel setting process. Once your bevel is set, remove the tape and hone on the next stone without tape. The bevel angle changes pretty quickly and you dont get any of the honeware.
I find most razors need some sort of roll or at least small adjustments to make sure the whole edge/bevel hits the stone and I can't do that going up and down on one side of the razor. I can live without the heel being spot on because I dont use the heel of my razors but the toe has to be perfect.
One trick that works. Use tape for the bevel setting process. Once your bevel is set, remove the tape and hone on the next stone without tape. The bevel angle changes pretty quickly and you dont get any of the honeware.
This is the ticket when setting a bevel. If there’s a need to have a larger chip taken out I raise the spine off the stone. Once the chip is removed then back to the tape till the bevel is set.
I’ve never used the burr method either. Only on a knife.
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I don't use tape because I think the bevel is the entire face of the blade--not just the edge
If you use tape to set a bevel then remove the tape and continue you are not going to be changing the angle of the blade. It takes very little to go from tape to no tape on the next stone. To many times folks make a big deal about it when it’s not.
I don't use tape either, ever. I like to hone everything in hand with palm sized stones(usually coticules or bbw). I start with circles then rolling x stokes. On axes i do circles with the stone, then "brush" the bevel with the stone. Someone I'll do x strokes on a bench stone but rarely. Strop a quick 3 lap strip on green pasted suede paddle. Axe will eat some trees.
I usually only ever use a burr to read the bevel/edge on chisels. Best way by far to get a chisel right quickly when on the job but I don't like it on my knives(or even planes) for some reason. I'm weird about things sometimes and I can't really explain why but I don't like how it feels on my fingers when I do a knife by raising a burr.
