The "Chrome" Toggle That Isn't

[GlennConti]

There many factors to consider. First of all any razor can be plated in gold ( not that I'm saying your is) , which makes many members question it's authenticity. The date and design of the dial mechanism are the only indicators for this razor to be a Chrome/Nickel set. But due to the possibility that is not authentic there may be some hesitation on the WIKI update.

I can just go in WIKI and input your razor, but before that is considered we may have to come to a consensus and eliminate all the factors that dont make it a Gold version of the Chrome/nickel Toggle set. As I told Stan while back, I personally think it was a special presentation set ( which Gillette was known for) that was made for worker or anyone held in high regards at Gillette or any other business. It most likely is a special order razor that somehow survived all these years and we are lucky to see it. Thanks to Stan and yourself.

Hi Alex, I agree with you that we should have a high level of confidence it is authentic before we accept it as not a replate. For Stan and I, who have seen the razor, the certainty is absolute. I'm not saying this of you, but we must be grounded in reality here to and use common sense; even DNA tests only provide highly likely matches (not certainty). If the probability that it is a replate is low then we should accept the razor as authentic and not evolve it to fantastical speculations. Also, as Tom has said we are not going to find paperwork proof that the razor is authentic. We have to be like archeologists looking at an artifact and draw our conclusions. Thank you for your consideration.

Edit: I don't think we will achieve a true consensus because of the expert nature of this hobby. If we can get a some experts to agree, that should be sufficient.

Edit: What I meant by the last statement is possibly a small panel of interested experts could pass judgement by looking at the photos rather than by full consensus. The prize being the wiki mention.

 

[alex2363]

Hi Alex, I agree with you that we should have a high level of confidence it is authentic before we accept it as not a replate. For Stan and I, who have seen the razor, the certainty is absolute. I'm not saying this of you, but we must be grounded in reality here to and use common sense; even DNA tests only provide highly likely matches (not certainty). If the probability that it is a replate is low then we should accept the razor as authentic and not evolve it to fantastical speculations. Also, as Tom has said we are not going to find paperwork proof that the razor is authentic. We have to be like archeologists looking at an artifact and draw our conclusions. Thank you for your consideration.

Edit: I don't think we will achieve a true consensus because of the expert nature of this hobby. If we can get a some experts to agree, that should be sufficient.

Edit: What I meant by the last statement is possibly a small panel of interested experts could pass judgement by looking at the photos rather than by full consensus. The prize being the wiki mention.

At this point we will note it on Wiki page and link this thread as a reference.

Toggle

Gillette Toggle)

Contents

• 1Description
• 2Reviews
• 3Registered Serial Numbers
• 4Pictures

Description

Manufacturer: Gillette

Dates in Production: 1956, 1st quarter 1958, 4th Quarter 1960

Type: DE, TTO, Adjustable(1-9)

Weight: 3.1 oz

Description: Has a flip open head design, bottom tip of handle works as a lever to pull tight a metal shaft which runs up the inside of the handle and pulls the head doors closed. This lever resembles a toggle switch, hence the unofficial nickname "Toggle". The official name is Gillette Adjustable. Inside top: "PAT. NO. ON PKG.", underside: "REG. U.S. PAT. OFF. |"date code with year and quarter" (i.e. F 4 = Fourth quarter of 1960)| [Gillette diamond] MADE IN U.S.A."

Notes of Interest: Limited production in 1956. With national distribution in 1958 and 1960. The 1956 models have serial numbers rather than date codes. Variations included gold- and nickel-plate. While the head of the razor looks like that of the Gillette Fat Boy, the gap adjustment (common red dot version) works differently. In the Fat Boy turning the adjustment knob lifts or lowers a bar underneath the blade changing the angle of the blade in relation to a fixed gap between the razor head doors and a fixed safety bar. In the toggle the razor blade maintains a fixed angle and turning the adjustment knob raises or lowers the safety bar.


There are 2 versions of the toggle. A 5 dial which was serial numbered and produced during 1956, and a 9 dial which was produced during 1958 (D1) and 1960 (F4). The 5 dial cost $7.50 in 1956. It came in a unique leather case, and the toggle switch actually has 2 positions. 1 throw is longer and opens the doors. The other throw is shorter and only loosens the doors for rinsing. The 9 dial has a spring within the dial, but is thinner than those on the later adjustable razors and is not exposed. The 5 dial has an adjustment plate like the "normal" adjustable razors, but it does not have an internal spring in the dial. The 5 dial also turns much more slowly, and does not click like the other adjustable razors.


There was also a nickel version produced during the last quarter of 1960. It has a 1-9 dial, but the dial is unique in that it has mechanical "stops" at both ends of the dial. There is a spring visible, yet the height of the dial is not the same across the entire dial. Thus it is a hybrid of sorts between the dial found on the normal Toggles and those found on the Fatboy.
Note: There is a Gold version of the Nickel Toggle set. It seems like it was a special presentation set for either a retired Gillette employee or a consumer. This razor is the same exact version of the Nickel Toggle set but it came in Gold. There is only one known razor at this time as of 7/3/2013. and it is owned by B&B GlenConti which he bought from B&B Vendor Stan. Be advised that there is only one known Gold colored Nickel/Chrome Toggle razor at this time, we are still researching it's authenticity.

 

[Above The Tie]

Thanks Alex for updating the wiki. It seems fittng that it was done by you the Toggle King of B&B.

 

[GlennConti]

Thanks Alex for updating the wiki. It seems fittng that it was done by you the Toggle King of B&B.

+1 Thanks again Alex.

 

[Myosin]

Are you guys really going to edit the wiki over this?

Others have tried to be nice and subtle about saying this is an obvious replate.

Only two people are saying this isn't a replate, the seller and the buyer. Couldn't we at least get some unbiased third party opinions before claiming this is a new species of toggle?

 

[Gary H]

Either way the razor is beautiful and I am sure worth every penny. Let us all know how it shaves when you take it for a spin.

 

[alex2363]

Are you guys really going to edit the wiki over this?

Others have tried to be nice and subtle about saying this is an obvious replate.

Only two people are saying this isn't a replate, the seller and the buyer. Couldn't we at least get some unbiased third party opinions before claiming this is a new species of toggle?

We have one opinion from a B&B vendor /replater (Stan) that is honest and true to B&B. I think that upon my experience upon reading about Gillette history and their business practices, I think that it merits a mention with the disclaimer that it is a probability. Many of other Gillette issues and mysteries are under that scope too. I also updated the wiki accordingly.

 

[DrAwkward]

We have one opinion from a B&B vendor /replater (Stan) that is honest and true to B&B. I think that upon my experience upon reading about Gillette history and their business practices, I think that it merits a mention with the disclaimer that it is a probability. Many of other Gillette issues and mysteries are under that scope too. I also updated the wiki accordingly.

+1. This entirely within the spirit that makes internet Wikis great. BTW, only two posters on this thread have seen the razor 3-D in their hands ...

 

[GlennConti]

Are you guys really going to edit the wiki over this?

Others have tried to be nice and subtle about saying this is an obvious replate.

Only two people are saying this isn't a replate, the seller and the buyer. Couldn't we at least get some unbiased third party opinions before claiming this is a new species of toggle?

1) This razor is not an obvious replate. You obviously do not understand the word "obvious".

2) Not only two people are saying this isn't a replate. I believe Copierguy and Mr-Razor are on the side of it not being a replate.

So you are wrong on both counts.

I want to put this to bed and am willing to allow further research to be done on the razor. Alex, I am at exit 98 on the parkway; where are you located? Maybe we can meet halfway and you could see the razor first hand? If it is such an obvious replate, you won't need an electron microscope and spectrum analyzer to detect its true condition. Not that this will satisfy the skeptics. They probably believe we never landed a man on the moon either.

 

[Gary H]

Let's end the turmoil, I am volunteering to take the razor off your hands for free and being a nice guy I will also pay for shipping.

 

[GlennConti]

Let's end the turmoil, I am volunteering to take the razor off your hands for free and being a nice guy I will also pay for shipping.

Thanks Gary, that's nice. I'll send it right out to you -NOT.

 

[Gary H]

 

[alex2363]

1) This razor is not an obvious replate. You obviously do not understand the word "obvious".

2) Not only two people are saying this isn't a replate. I believe Copierguy and Mr-Razor are on the side of it not being a replate.

So you are wrong on both counts.

I want to put this to bed and am willing to allow further research to be done on the razor. Alex, I am at exit 98 on the parkway; where are you located? Maybe we can meet halfway and you could see the razor first hand? If it is such an obvious replate, you won't need an electron microscope and spectrum analyzer to detect its true condition. Not that this will satisfy the skeptics. They probably believe we never landed a man on the moon either.

I am in the Atlantic City area, but in retrospect I knew about this razor for a while now Stan and I talked about it and Stan did much research before making any statements. So i believe that it is still under the scope of probable authenticity.

 

[GlennConti]

I am in the Atlantic City area, but in retrospect I knew about this razor for a while now Stan and I talked about it and Stan did much research before making any statements. So i believe that it is still under the scope of probable authenticity.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I would like an independent third expert person to view the razor, make a determination and then firmly stand on one side or the other. I am confident that it is not a replate. Are you willing to make a stand after seeing the razor?

 

[alex2363]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I would like an independent third expert person to view the razor, make a determination and then firmly stand on one side or the other. I am confident that it is not a replate. Are you willing to make a stand after seeing the razor?

I mean that at this point in time it may be an authentic razor, but since its only one razor in existence ( that we know off) we have no other references to go on. We have to go on the probability of theory.

 

[GlennConti]

I mean that at this point in time it may be an authentic razor, but since its only one razor in existence ( that we know off) we have no other references to go on. We have to go on the probability of theory.

So currently what you are saying is from your research of photos and talks with Stan, this razor is probably authentic.

 

[alex2363]

So currently what you are saying is from your research of photos and talks with Stan, this razor is probably authentic.

At this point , yes.

 

[Rockminer]

Op, until someone from Gillette or a known expert in the field can authenticate your razor, all you're going to get it is "probably" from the people who have to decide, one way or the other, and decide that it might be real.

Everything associated with this razor has been at least different. The original owner of the razor asked us basically " what's it worth " and wanted the WIKI updated. The buyer ( you ) started a thread also asking for the WIKI to be updated. Some members, who have questioned the authenticity, have been met with at least ungentlemanly responses by you ( in some cases ). I'm not saying you did it on purpose or even intended for it to come off that way. It just seems that, IMO, you are going out of your way to want people to know it's real and update the WIKI.

I hope your razor is authentic. I always enjoy seeing new and unusual things from the past, all we're saying is just because the buyer and seller say it's real, doesn't make it so, considering they both have skin in the game.

 

[GlennConti]

Op, until someone from Gillette or a known expert in the field can authenticate your razor, all you're going to get it is "probably" from the people who have to decide, one way or the other, and decide that it might be real.

Everything associated with this razor has been at least different. The original owner of the razor asked us basically " what's it worth " and wanted the WIKI updated. The buyer ( you ) started a thread also asking for the WIKI to be updated. Some members, who have questioned the authenticity, have been met with at least ungentlemanly responses by you ( in some cases ). I'm not saying you did it on purpose or even intended for it to come off that way. It just seems that, IMO, you are going out of your way to want people to know it's real and update the WIKI.

I hope your razor is authentic. I always enjoy seeing new and unusual things from the past, all we're saying is just because the buyer and seller say it's real, doesn't make it so, considering they both have skin in the game.

Sorry if I come off as harsh. I have a firm conviction and what I believe is evidence to back me up. I wanted to engage with debate any skeptic to see why they disbelieve. I am not trying to make this personal. However, this may not be a forum where debate is encouraged. I do not want to sound like a cackling hen. I still do not know why people are skeptical other than "because I've never seen that before".

As far as skin in the game, I am not that type of collector. I don't mind owning replates at all. I have a 24K gold 195 Bottom Dial and own a rhodium replated red dot fatboy. If my "chrome" toggle was a replate I would love it just as much. However, the fact is this razor is not a replate.

 

[alex2363]

Thanks Alex for updating the wiki. It seems fittng that it was done by you the Toggle King of B&B.

Your welcome, and you are the Carnac of modern stainless steel razors..