The Association of Lather Catchers: TALC

[jmturley]

Finally had time to take some better pictures of my two lather catchers today.


The Gem Jr case was cleaned up as well as the razor. It was in a fairly dirty condition when I received it but it cleaned up nicely. And just because I mentioned it in another thread I cleaned up my Damaskeene open comb today. Some of the plating is coming off on the top, but it's still in really nice condition for being over 100 years old:



On a side note, it is a pain to take flash photography on shiny objects...

 

[Flintstone65]

Finally had time to take some better pictures of my two lather catchers today.
View attachment 1006576 View attachment 1006577

The Gem Jr case was cleaned up as well as the razor. It was in a fairly dirty condition when I received it but it cleaned up nicely. And just because I mentioned it in another thread I cleaned up my Damaskeene open comb today. Some of the plating is coming off on the top, but it's still in really nice condition for being over 100 years old:

View attachment 1006578 View attachment 1006579

On a side note, it is a pain to take flash photography on shiny objects...

Those are some beautiful golden razors!!! Just kidding about the "golden" part -- believe me, I cannot cast stones on anyone's photography skills....I grew up with a little 110 camera, then graduated to a 35mm, then got into developing film and using different papers; and now that it's point a click with a "phone", I'm pretty useless. But enough about photography.

Your GEM Jr Bar and open comb 'Dammy' are absolutely beautiful. Two excellent shavers, IMO!!!

 

[Flintstone65]

Good morning all...or rather "Bonjour à tous"!!! So as promised I did shim a blade for the lovely "Perfecta" -- and yes, I can confirm that despite Mr. Waits classifying the Perfecta as a "hoe-style", it is indeed a Lather Catcher (photographic proof below).

First the shim. As mentioned before, the Perfecta has a strong back clip (think Ever Ready Lather Catchers), fixed side clips (no springs or other movement, these babies are just angled pieces of metal), and decent (although not overly pronounced) blade stops. So to catch the blade stops, a modern GEM needs to be angled down (like a wedge blade), but not so much so that the "wedge" won't fit into the side clips. This means that a wedge-simulator (like those many of us have, won't let the blade squeeze into the blade clips....the answer is a plain old-fashioned shim. I pried off the spine of my GEM blade, cut a fat rubber band to length, slipped it into the opened up spine, and ultimately replaced the spine which had the rubber band sandwiched in between. Folks have used plastic and metal shims, but I liked the idea of the rubber being relatively thick, but also pliable enough to expand or squeeze down if it needed to for the razor. Here's a few photos (click to make them bigger):

Not my best work aesthetically speaking, but functionally it was "parfait"!

Now on to the shave. The soap was new-to-me -- which is a bit of gutsy move when you're also using a razor for the first time -- but I wanted to try it and the name was perfect: Valobra (Italian Soap) Fougère (French Name "Fern"). As you may recall the Perfecta razor is a French razor with a Spanish name....it's not a "perfect" match but....(see what I did there?). Okay, enough goofing around...the soap lathered well, good slickness and I liked the scent; but the star of the show was the Perfecta. I did a very careful 3 pass shave (WTG, XTG, XTG/ATG) and got a solid DFS blade with only two tiny nicks that I didn't notice until 20 minutes after the shave and I was looking to see how close the shave looked. The nicks were in spots where I went too steep with the angle (handle was pointed at the floor)....under the nose and the pointy part of my chin. Aside from that, the shave went well. On a continuum of mild-smooth (GEM Jr Bar) and lots-of-blade-feel-kinda-harsh (Kampfe Bros Star), the Perfecta falls right into the Kampfe Bros camp. I suspect because like the Kampfe Bros, the Perfecta was designed to be used with a wedge blade. Even with my shim, there was some blade chatter and I suspect the super thin blade and edge is just not a good enough fit in the frame. That said, I like a shave with lots of audio (which this has) and blade feel (which this absolutely has)....but I would NOT use a brand new GEM blade. My blade was well-worn and on it's 11th shave and I was thankful for that. These built-for-a-wedge-blade Lather Catchers really are like straight-razors on a stick; they require the blade angle to be shallow (handle parallel to the floor), the pressure to be very light (i.e., non-existent), and good skin-stretching technique. With those 3 things in place, you can get an amazing shave, and look good doing it!!! This definitely won't be the last shave for my Perfecta, but I won't be grabbing this one if my face is feeling tender, or if I need to whip out a quick shave.

The picture proving the Perfecta's bona fides as a Lather Catcher


Here are the obligatory shave pics and details:
Perfecta with modified GEM SS PTFE blade on it's 11th shave | Valobra Fougère lathered with a Yaqi 26mm Timber Wolf | Finished with Thayers Rose Witch Hazel

 

[Ron R]

Good morning all...or rather "Bonjour à tous"!!! So as promised I did shim a blade for the lovely "Perfecta" -- and yes, I can confirm that despite Mr. Waits classifying the Perfecta as a "hoe-style", it is indeed a Lather Catcher (photographic proof below).

First the shim. As mentioned before, the Perfecta has a strong back clip (think Ever Ready Lather Catchers), fixed side clips (no springs or other movement, these babies are just angled pieces of metal), and decent (although not overly pronounced) blade stops. So to catch the blade stops, a modern GEM needs to be angled down (like a wedge blade), but not so much so that the "wedge" won't fit into the side clips. This means that a wedge-simulator (like those many of us have, won't let the blade squeeze into the blade clips....the answer is a plain old-fashioned shim. I pried off the spine of my GEM blade, cut a fat rubber band to length, slipped it into the opened up spine, and ultimately replaced the spine which had the rubber band sandwiched in between. Folks have used plastic and metal shims, but I liked the idea of the rubber being relatively thick, but also pliable enough to expand or squeeze down if it needed to for the razor. Here's a few photos (click to make them bigger):
View attachment 1007817 View attachment 1007818 View attachment 1007819
Not my best work aesthetically speaking, but functionally it was "parfait"!

Now on to the shave. The soap was new-to-me -- which is a bit of gutsy move when you're also using a razor for the first time -- but I wanted to try it and the name was perfect: Valobra (Italian Soap) Fougère (French Name "Fern"). As you may recall the Perfecta razor is a French razor with a Spanish name....it's not a "perfect" match but....(see what I did there?). Okay, enough goofing around...the soap lathered well, good slickness and I liked the scent; but the star of the show was the Perfecta. I did a very careful 3 pass shave (WTG, XTG, XTG/ATG) and got a solid DFS blade with only two tiny nicks that I didn't notice until 20 minutes after the shave and I was looking to see how close the shave looked. The nicks were in spots where I went too steep with the angle (handle was pointed at the floor)....under the nose and the pointy part of my chin. Aside from that, the shave went well. On a continuum of mild-smooth (GEM Jr Bar) and lots-of-blade-feel-kinda-harsh (Kampfe Bros Star), the Perfecta falls right into the Kampfe Bros camp. I suspect because like the Kampfe Bros, the Perfecta was designed to be used with a wedge blade. Even with my shim, there was some blade chatter and I suspect the super thin blade and edge is just not a good enough fit in the frame. That said, I like a shave with lots of audio (which this has) and blade feel (which this absolutely has)....but I would NOT use a brand new GEM blade. My blade was well-worn and on it's 11th shave and I was thankful for that. These built-for-a-wedge-blade Lather Catchers really are like straight-razors on a stick; they require the blade angle to be shallow (handle parallel to the floor), the pressure to be very light (i.e., non-existent), and good skin-stretching technique. With those 3 things in place, you can get an amazing shave, and look good doing it!!! This definitely won't be the last shave for my Perfecta, but I won't be grabbing this one if my face is feeling tender, or if I need to whip out a quick shave.

The picture proving the Perfecta's bona fides as a Lather Catcher
View attachment 1007828

Here are the obligatory shave pics and details:
Perfecta with modified GEM SS PTFE blade on it's 11th shave | Valobra Fougère lathered with a Yaqi 26mm Timber Wolf | Finished with Thayers Rose Witch Hazel
View attachment 1007824 View attachment 1007825
View attachment 1007826 View attachment 1007827

Excellent review, sometimes you have to improvise to make a beautiful razor like that come back to life.
To bad you have to remove the spine on a standard Gem blade, I think once you have the proper length of blade you could reinstall the spine and re-crimp on to blade and then install the elastic on just the spine and that will reduce blade chatter for you some.
I used crazy glue to join my elastic band with a over lap joint and I still use them occasionally and they held up good and work well to dampen the chatter and noise.

I use some altered magnetic business cards to protect me, Grip hard and install the elastic and they still want to come out sometimes. Hope it helps like it did for my vintage razors.
Have some great shaves!

 

[Flintstone65]

Thanks, Ron. Just so I'm clear, you super-glue the band to the outside of the GEM spine so you can just reuse the spine on newer blades?

 

[Ron R]

Thanks, Ron. Just so I'm clear, you super-glue the band to the outside of the GEM spine so you can just reuse the spine on newer blades?

The elastic band is not glued to the spline but is just held under it's own elastic tension that way it can be removed and cleaned, elastic over time will just keep getting stretched and lose a little of it's thickness but if removed it's good for the next shave.(trail and error formula) I made up about 4 of them and still have all four in good shape- hope this helps. The picture shows approx diameter needed for most shimming.
Have some great shaves!

 

[Flintstone65]

The elastic band is not glued to the spline but is just held under it's own elastic tension that way it can be removed and cleaned, elastic over time will just keep getting stretched and lose a little of it's thickness but if removed it's good for the next shave.(trail and error formula) I made up about 4 of them and still have all four in good shape- hope this helps. The picture shows approx diameter needed for most shimming.
Have some great shaves!

Ohhhh!!!! So even though my elastic is too big (fits too loosely "as is") around the spine, I can super-glue it itself to adjust the size of the band and have it fit the GEM spine and blade. Have I got it now? Sorry for being so dense!

And I finally got take a look at your rubber band pic -- so I do think I've got it. I like the idea of not having to remove and replace the spine....that gets old fast!

 

[Ron R]

Ohhhh!!!! So even though my elastic is too big (fits too loosely "as is") around the spine, I can super-glue it itself to adjust the size of the band and have it fit the GEM spine and blade. Have I got it now? Sorry for being so dense!

And I finally got take a look at your rubber band pic -- so I do think I've got it. I like the idea of not having to remove and replace the spine....that gets old fast!

I could of inboxed you about elastic shim, but there are others who might have a similar issue with their Lather catcher or older Everready razors and Gems.... that used a thicker spline or even a wedge blade and it does smooth out the shave a notch IMO. Nothing wrong with your trial on de-spining and using rubber band and
it worked, but you mentioned chatter and I thought this method could help!
Have some great shaves!

 

[Flintstone65]

I could of inboxed you about elastic shim, but there are others who might have a similar issue with their Lather catcher or older Everready razors and Gems.... that used a thicker spline or even a wedge blade and it does smooth out the shave a notch IMO. Nothing wrong with your trial on de-spining and using rubber band and
it worked, but you mentioned chatter and I thought this method could help!
Have some great shaves!

I'm glad it's in the thread....I think a modified elastic bland that fits over a GEM blade is easier (and safer) to use than the method I used...and faster. I'm really more interested in "getting to the shave" part of shaving than I am the prep-work, so anything that I can do where my wife doesn't have to say (only somewhat jokingly), "Are you going to shave? If so I'll tell our friends that we'll be a couple of hours late to the event!"

And perhaps most importantly, the extra "rubber" (i.e., having both sides of the band engaged (front and back), gives it more insulation and definitely should help with the chatter!!!

Merci beaucoup!!!

 

[jmturley]

Used my Ever Ready again today and had a much better shave.

Software:
Grooming Dept. Unscented+Cooling preshave
Cella Shave Soap
Alum/Witch-hazel
Clubman Special Reserve/Stirling Glacial unscented Balm

Hardware:
Rubberset 400-3 w/ Omega 10066 boar knot
Ever Ready 1907(ish) Lather Catcher
Gem SS blade (3) with a half-spine shim.


Right out of the shower, with a clean face, I applied a pea sized amount of pre-shave onto my face as my brush soaked. Loaded my brush in the tub and then face lathered. Proceeded with my 3 pass shave (WTG, XTG, ATG). The Cella gave me plenty of cushion and slickness for the three passes and didn’t feel a ton of irritation. Did some minor clean up around my trouble areas. After that a cold water rinse and a rub down with my alum bar. Noticed some irritation done the alum, but mostly on my knock where I always have it. Another cold water rinse then witch hazel, aftershave, and balm on top. Result was a nice smooth shave.

This shave was much better then my first couple attempts with my Ever Ready. Not sure if my technique was better (focused a lot on the angle of attack) or the shim I used to increase the angel of the blade. Either way, still an enjoyable shave.

 

[Flintstone65]

Used my Ever Ready again today and had a much better shave.

This shave was much better then my first couple attempts with my Ever Ready. Not sure if my technique was better (focused a lot on the angle of attack) or the shim I used to increase the angel of the blade. Either way, still an enjoyable shave.

Great news, but I take it still hasn't de-throned your Gem Jr Bar?

 

[jmturley]

No where near a dethrone. I hardly have to think about the Jr Bar when I shave.

 

[jmturley]

I am considering grabbing an old Kampfe Star LC with a wedge blade. Anyone have experience honing one? I have all the equipment for honing as I use and hone straights. Just would love to use an original blade instead of a shim.

 

[Flintstone65]

I am considering grabbing an old Kampfe Star LC with a wedge blade. Anyone have experience honing one? I have all the equipment for honing as I use and hone straights. Just would love to use an original blade instead of a shim.

Yes, I have experience -- but I'm not good at it. If you hone straights, I think you're going to be fine. The wedge really is just a shortened (lengthwise) straight. My issue is setting/fixing bevels. Most wedges are in ROUGH shape. They have a smile because the blade clips have eaten into the blade, or a frown (I guess from poor honing). And depending on the original depth (width) of the blade, too much honing over the years may have shortened the dang thing so that it doesn't go far enough forward to actually shave (learned that the hard way). All that said, I have probably 6 or 7 wedges, I've tried to hone and strop at least 2, and I've "successfully" (sort of) gotten one to shave. It still isn't sharp enough.

Now time for a full disclosure....I am an IMPATIENT person. So I'm sure that I did not do the required amount of passes. I can see the blade edge through the jewelers loop, but I really have no freak'in idea what I'm looking for, and I have a feeling that my stropping technique is probably dulling my edge, rather than tuning it. So I am a complete sharpening noob, and I haven't given up, but I also know now that I need to set some real time aside to do this.

Last comment, and you probably already know this, you sharpen the wedge (I do tape the edges) without the stropping attachment. Only use the stropping attachment for, well, stropping. As I understand it, the same stones, films, pastes, etc that you use to work your straights, are the same exact ones you use to do your wedge. Please keep us posted, some of us (i.e., me) are REALLY anxious to learn from those who know what they're doing. I've just been too lazy to go squat in the Straight forum and put in the time to build the skill.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ron R]

I am considering grabbing an old Kampfe Star LC with a wedge blade. Anyone have experience honing one? I have all the equipment for honing as I use and hone straights. Just would love to use an original blade instead of a shim.

Interesting challenge, @riverrun more than likely could help or direct you to some one who does wedge type blades he knows a lot of vintage razor folks.

Yes, I have experience -- but I'm not good at it. If you hone straights, I think you're going to be fine. The wedge really is just a shortened (lengthwise) straight. My issue is setting/fixing bevels. Most wedges are in ROUGH shape. They have a smile because the blade clips have eaten into the blade, or a frown (I guess from poor honing). And depending on the original depth (width) of the blade, too much honing over the years may have shortened the dang thing so that it doesn't go far enough forward to actually shave (learned that the hard way). All that said, I have probably 6 or 7 wedges, I've tried to hone and strop at least 2, and I've "successfully" (sort of) gotten one to shave. It still isn't sharp enough.

Now time for a full disclosure....I am an IMPATIENT person. So I'm sure that I did not do the required amount of passes. I can see the blade edge through the jewelers loop, but I really have no freak'in idea what I'm looking for, and I have a feeling that my stropping technique is probably dulling my edge, rather than tuning it. So I am a complete sharpening noob, and I haven't given up, but I also know now that I need to set some real time aside to do this.

Last comment, and you probably already know this, you sharpen the wedge (I do tape the edges) without the stropping attachment. Only use the stropping attachment for, well, stropping. As I understand it, the same stones, films, pastes, etc that you use to work your straights, are the same exact ones you use to do your wedge. Please keep us posted, some of us (i.e., me) are REALLY anxious to learn from those who know what they're doing. I've just been too lazy to go squat in the Straight forum and put in the time to build the skill.

Hope this helps.

Excellent write up, to get a good razor edge is a learning curve and I use to sharpen drills and high speed steel bar stock for machining different materials and after a while you know what will work. For a razors edge that gets into fine work and magnification for better eye sight would be important because the edge is so refined(I have the USB Andonstar 500 X and it helps these older weaker eyes). The finer the edge the stronger it should be. Some of the fellows who get right into the sharpening and buy some fancy stones love the challenges is my guess. Gillette had that figured out that he would supply blades with all that honing & stropping done and just enjoy the shave and keep buying his blades was his thinking.
The one draw back I see with straight razor or wedge blade is the blade having no edge coatings like modern disposable blades do. Coatings help slice through whiskers a little easier they claim and are tested. Who knows other than the operator, the old timers did honing and stropping for decades until buying pre-sharpened stropped blades took over-similar to cartridge razor and disposable did.
Have some great shaves!

 

[riverrun]

Interesting challenge, @riverrun more than likely could help or direct you to some one who does wedge type blades he knows a lot of vintage razor folks.

Not on your side of the pond.

 

[jmturley]

Yes, I have experience -- but I'm not good at it. If you hone straights, I think you're going to be fine. The wedge really is just a shortened (lengthwise) straight. My issue is setting/fixing bevels. Most wedges are in ROUGH shape. They have a smile because the blade clips have eaten into the blade, or a frown (I guess from poor honing). And depending on the original depth (width) of the blade, too much honing over the years may have shortened the dang thing so that it doesn't go far enough forward to actually shave (learned that the hard way). All that said, I have probably 6 or 7 wedges, I've tried to hone and strop at least 2, and I've "successfully" (sort of) gotten one to shave. It still isn't sharp enough.

Now time for a full disclosure....I am an IMPATIENT person. So I'm sure that I did not do the required amount of passes. I can see the blade edge through the jewelers loop, but I really have no freak'in idea what I'm looking for, and I have a feeling that my stropping technique is probably dulling my edge, rather than tuning it. So I am a complete sharpening noob, and I haven't given up, but I also know now that I need to set some real time aside to do this.

Last comment, and you probably already know this, you sharpen the wedge (I do tape the edges) without the stropping attachment. Only use the stropping attachment for, well, stropping. As I understand it, the same stones, films, pastes, etc that you use to work your straights, are the same exact ones you use to do your wedge. Please keep us posted, some of us (i.e., me) are REALLY anxious to learn from those who know what they're doing. I've just been too lazy to go squat in the Straight forum and put in the time to build the skill.

Hope this helps.

That's good to know. I kind of looked around and saw it was similar to a straight. I've restored a couple straights with some pretty funky edges. I'm not an expert by any means, but I did get some good shaves off of my hard coticule edges. The one I am eyeing looks like it has a good blade, but you never know until you get it in hand.

 

[Old Hippie]

Now time for a full disclosure....I am an IMPATIENT person.

Say it's not so! Most of us are models of forbearance.

I have thought about the sharpening system I use for plane and spokeshave blades. It has an indexable bevel jig that also does micro-bevels. I'm suddenly wondering if a nice 3-bevel grind is possible on a wedge blade. (Neeeyyeeeh...whassup Doc? Do I really need another rabbit hole?)

I'll give that some more thought.

O.H.

 

[jmturley]

Say it's not so! Most of us are models of forbearance.

I have thought about the sharpening system I use for plane and spokeshave blades. It has an indexable bevel jig that also does micro-bevels. I'm suddenly wondering if a nice 3-bevel grind is possible on a wedge blade. (Neeeyyeeeh...whassup Doc? Do I really need another rabbit hole?)

I'll give that some more thought.

O.H.

I have a nice set up for edges tools but not sure Id use those for my shaving blades. Most straights have the angel built into the construction of the blade, and I’m sure the same goes for the wedge blades.

I could see a slight secondary bevel working out to a point. It might be more fragile and require touch ups more often.

 

[Flintstone65]

I have a nice set up for edges tools but not sure Id use those for my shaving blades. Most straights have the angel built into the construction of the blade, and I’m sure the same goes for the wedge blades.

I could see a slight secondary bevel working out to a point. It might be more fragile and require touch ups more often.

Agreed. I've got jigs and fancy gizmos (e.g., Work Sharp Wood Tool Sharpener) up the wazoo; but none of them seemed likely to help when my bevels kept coming out crooked. Anybody who can hone a straight line bevel on a straight razor or wedge, definitely has my undying respect.