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The $1,000 Dollar Shave

Hi Dave, Your point about focusing on quality vs quantity is reasonable though I'm not sure we should ever consider a $1,000 wet shaving equipment set as cheap. Given that DE/SE wet shaving has morphed into a hobby for many there is an additional factor beyond quality that drives pricing of the highest end equipment. That is the collectable element of the hobby for brushes and razors. Up to a certain point hardware purchased from reputable sellers generally increases in quality along with price. At a certain pricing range the prices become more driven by the collectable element of what are sometimes scarce limited production items. You referred to this in your post when noting "better held value"

Shaving brushes are a great example of this. Somewhere in roughly the $100-$250 range (per each shavers YMMV and also varies by manufacture hence the wide range) the quality tends to top out with diminishing returns in actual quality. Beyond that most of the delta in price is driven by the scarcity/collectability of the brushes. Recall a recent B&Ber post regarding one brush brand that explained how, because of resellers quickly flipping brushes for over twice the former retail selling prices, the manufacturer took prices up from the $200's to $400-500's range.

An additional implication of your post is that tools at $50 and under price points are poor quality and not very well made. That is simply not the case. We've lots of B&Ber's who own tools in this price range that are of great quality, including myself. Our synthetic and boar brushes, Weishi, King C. Gillette, Parker and Merkur razors work well and do so for years. That is great quality and excellent value. The Gillette black beauty adjustable, my first razor and considered by most to be excellent, retailed for under $5 when I purchased it or roughly under $30 in today's dollars. Have seen your recent posts regarding perfect 10/10 shaves with your Omega 10666 boar. That is a great quality $10-15 brush.

My overall take is that we have a great hobby where shavers can enjoy great shaves with a wide range of qualitytools from $10 to above the $1000s noted in the shave post that started this thread. Even at close to the entry level we have access to great quality razors and brushes in the $10-$20 range. These are chromed zamac razors and boar or synthetic brushes that, while they may not become family heirlooms, easily deliver great shaves for roughly a 5 -10+ year lifespan. This is supported by the many B&Ber posts lauding the performance of these tools.

To your point it is true that as the prices increase there are further quality enhancements as manufactures deliver tools with better materials such as brass or stainless razors, enhanced synthetic and badger knots combined with custom designed handles for brushes. This wide range of quality tools is great for our hobby as it makes it easy to get into and allows each of us to evolve as our preferences change over time. I understand and respect those who enjoy the collectable aspect of our hobby.

Congratulations on your recent epiphany regarding shaving brush preferences. It's enjoyable to read about your excitement regarding the new shaving experience these brushes provide and I hope we hear more. That said those of us who love our quality synthetic and boar brush shaves are having just as much fun on our DE shaving journeys.
Well said.

A thoughtful and dignified post.
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
Yes…photo equipment can be expensive…especially if you choose(as I did) to replace lots of film cameras and lenses with lots of digital cameras and lenses.

So as not to hijack the thread, I can’t get more than halfway to $1000 on a shave. That’s ok though.
I just found out yesterday... the Canon mirrorless camera I've been waiting to be announced looks like it will be released in the first quarter of 2024. I'll start saving for it next year which will put a damper on buying shaving gear. The R5 V2 should be out then. I've been using my 1DX2 for several years now... but the R52 should be a fine camera... hoping.. and the RF 100-500 will be quite an upgrade from my 100-400 v2. That's a serious cash outlay.... makes what I've spent on shaving gear pale in comparison.

We are so fortunate.... Canon, Nikon and Sony... among others, have some amazing gear available these days. I'm mainly a wildlife photographer. I could never get the shots I'm getting now with a film camera. You had to have amazing skills, far beyond my own, to get great birds in flight photos with film gear.
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
Well, you do have a great collection of shaving gear already, my friend. 😋
I do.... I doubt I'll feel like I'm making a sacrifice saving up for a couple years to get a camera and lens. As you said, I've been able to assemble some shaving gear over this past 9 months that is a pleasure to use. Add to that, I'll probably be experimenting for the next 6 months or so, learning the new razors I've just acquired.
 

Goatrope

Eccentric and destitute of reason
Been wet shaving off and on for almost a decade. I love the art, and I love the modern hardware and software offered. Like most of us, I started shaving with very inexpensive items that provided fantastic shaves. But as you get into the hobby and really want to treat it like a hobby and not simply a utilitarian requirement, the addiction to trying new things, and buying more expensive soaps, razors and brushes take hold. I had a bit of an epiphany today as I shaved. I really love high-end, well-made things which have led me to buy very pricey razors, brushes, soaps, splashes, etc.

Today I shaved with 1,000 dollars worth of equipment. I am not sure whether to feel gross, cry or be happy about it but it seems so weird. Yet at the same time, there is something so crazy and beautiful about being able to buy such fine items that (the hardware at least) could potentially last generations to come. So many of us pour lots of money into this hobby and have huge collections. It's pretty crazy to think about how much money is sitting on the counter sometimes. Do you all ever think about it?

Either way, I had a fantastic shave with my new Rocnel Sailor 2022, Declaration Grooming Cold B14 Jefferson, SV 70th Anniversary soap and splash.
View attachment 1546387

Beautiful. Enjoy!
 
Been wet shaving off and on for almost a decade. I love the art, and I love the modern hardware and software offered. Like most of us, I started shaving with very inexpensive items that provided fantastic shaves. But as you get into the hobby and really want to treat it like a hobby and not simply a utilitarian requirement, the addiction to trying new things, and buying more expensive soaps, razors and brushes take hold. I had a bit of an epiphany today as I shaved. I really love high-end, well-made things which have led me to buy very pricey razors, brushes, soaps, splashes, etc.

Today I shaved with 1,000 dollars worth of equipment. I am not sure whether to feel gross, cry or be happy about it but it seems so weird. Yet at the same time, there is something so crazy and beautiful about being able to buy such fine items that (the hardware at least) could potentially last generations to come. So many of us pour lots of money into this hobby and have huge collections. It's pretty crazy to think about how much money is sitting on the counter sometimes. Do you all ever think about it?

Either way, I had a fantastic shave with my new Rocnel Sailor 2022, Declaration Grooming Cold B14 Jefferson, SV 70th Anniversary soap and splash.
View attachment 1546387
I get stellar shaves with most of my bakelites and a brush, soap and blade of highest quality but dirt cheap. I dare all members to outshave this gear 😇
 
Damn.

My most luxurious (costly) shave would be:

Blackland Vector, stainless steel ($220)
Feather ProGuard ($1)
Martin de Candre ($50)
Semogue SOC Mistura ($70)
Captain's Choice copper bowl ($59)
Random aftershave ($15 max)

$415 - I'm a pauper...feel free to send donations.
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
I might be able to get a $500 shave... I haven't really thought about it much until this thread showed up. I'd have to make sure I added in the shipping costs from a non-US badger brush and razor, though.

I found out early on.. I would have saved a fortune had I just stayed with the outrageously expensive Gillette Fusion Power cartridges. <eg>
 

never-stop-learning

Demoted To Moderator
Staff member
If I took the time to add everything up, my Lovely Bride would go on a jewelry shopping spree. ;)

What something costs really doesn't factor into my decision regarding what I use. The tools, hardware and software, that provide the best feel and the best results get used. :)
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
If I took the time to add everything up, my Lovely Bride would go on a jewelry shopping spree. ;)

What something costs really doesn't factor into my decision regarding what I use. The tools, hardware and software, that provide the best feel and the best results get used. :)
My wife did very well on our Bali trip, jewelry-wise. Extremely well, in fact. That's why I moved up my modern razor purchases. I had planned on buying a few next year but..... <eg>
 
My wife did very well on our Bali trip, jewelry-wise. Extremely well, in fact. That's why I moved up my modern razor purchases. I had planned on buying a few next year but..... <eg>
I have used that. Want a new watch or firearm?...buy a Coach purse. Served me well. Not so much with shaving as most of my stuff is a few bucks here and there. A $100+ shaving expense is very rare for me.

I can only think of two:

A Paladin brush (which I quickly sold)
A Vector (which I love)
 
Brag about your gear, I know I would if I had the higher end stuff. People work hard for the money they earn, so why not spend it the way they want? I have a tiny bit if envy, jealousy or whatever you want to call it, when I see all the amazing gear people have. I also really enjoy seeing that gear, it's fun to see. It also makes me curious on the makers of said gear. I will go on searches and I have found a few really good brush, straight razor, soap and bowl makers and the like and get to admire their work.
 

never-stop-learning

Demoted To Moderator
Staff member
And it, by no means, says anything about the quality of the shave or the result.
Using my personal criteria for razors:

efficiency + smoothness + nimble & maneuverable + predictable = overall effectiveness

I've shaved with expensive razors that didn't make the cut and inexpensive razors that did.

My highest scoring razors are certainly not inexpensive, but they are certainly not the most expensive razors out there. ;)
 
Hi Dave, Your point about focusing on quality vs quantity is reasonable though I'm not sure we should ever consider a $1,000 wet shaving equipment set as cheap. Given that DE/SE wet shaving has morphed into a hobby for many there is an additional factor beyond quality that drives pricing of the highest end equipment. That is the collectable element of the hobby for brushes and razors. Up to a certain point hardware purchased from reputable sellers generally increases in quality along with price. At a certain pricing range the prices become more driven by the collectable element of what are sometimes scarce limited production items. You referred to this in your post when noting "better held value"

Shaving brushes are a great example of this. Somewhere in roughly the $100-$250 range (per each shavers YMMV and also varies by manufacture hence the wide range) the quality tends to top out with diminishing returns in actual quality. Beyond that most of the delta in price is driven by the scarcity/collectability of the brushes. Recall a recent B&Ber post regarding one brush brand that explained how, because of resellers quickly flipping brushes for over twice the former retail selling prices, the manufacturer took prices up from the $200's to $400-500's range.

An additional implication of your post is that tools at $50 and under price points are poor quality and not very well made. That is simply not the case. We've lots of B&Ber's who own tools in this price range that are of great quality, including myself. Our synthetic and boar brushes, Weishi, King C. Gillette, Parker and Merkur razors work well and do so for years. That is great quality and excellent value. The Gillette black beauty adjustable, my first razor and considered by most to be excellent, retailed for under $5 when I purchased it or roughly under $30 in today's dollars. Have seen your recent posts regarding perfect 10/10 shaves with your Omega 10666 boar. That is a great quality $10-15 brush.

My overall take is that we have a great hobby where shavers can enjoy great shaves with a wide range of qualitytools from $10 to above the $1000s noted in the shave post that started this thread. Even at close to the entry level we have access to great quality razors and brushes in the $10-$20 range. These are chromed zamac razors and boar or synthetic brushes that, while they may not become family heirlooms, easily deliver great shaves for roughly a 5 -10+ year lifespan. This is supported by the many B&Ber posts lauding the performance of these tools.

To your point it is true that as the prices increase there are further quality enhancements as manufactures deliver tools with better materials such as brass or stainless razors, enhanced synthetic and badger knots combined with custom designed handles for brushes. This wide range of quality tools is great for our hobby as it makes it easy to get into and allows each of us to evolve as our preferences change over time. I understand and respect those who enjoy the collectable aspect of our hobby.

Congratulations on your recent epiphany regarding shaving brush preferences. It's enjoyable to read about your excitement regarding the new shaving experience these brushes provide and I hope we hear more. That said those of us who love our quality synthetic and boar brush shaves are having just as much fun on our DE shaving journeys.
Cheap is a matter of opinion. To me $1,000 on something that I will get years of use out of and I use daily is very cheap. We all have different values and values on how we see and spend money. Thus is life and the beauty of it. For me and my wife we value time and control of it the most vs typical consumerism. I might have miss conveyed my intent with my analogy of the 100 $50 brushes vs 1 $500 brush. This analogy never mentions that a $50 brush is not of quality but instead was stating how people lose sight of quantity vs quality in that matter. Which is a very normal American issue. But even quality is very subjective.

For the last 10 years I have used that 10066 Boar brush that cost $15. I know it will last me the rest of my life. But I can say with out a doubt now owning a few higher end badger brushes I don't ever grab that 10066 Boar brush. These days we are very spoiled as you can get many quality items for less than $50. Until two weeks ago the most I spent on a brush was around $50. To me there really are different levels of quality if you really break it down.

At the higher end of quality comes perks and more luxury. Mind you when I say quality I don't put a price tag on it. My 97 Land Cruiser is quality yet much cheaper than many newer vehicles these days. That black beauty of yours is quality that I think is hard to find these days! I'm somewhat of a vintage Gillette razor fan as that is all I have used for the last 10 years until about two weeks ago. My mantra is I spend more money on the higher end of things as a person who does not spend money often and I don't own many things in life I rather have fewer items that not only will last me but are a true pleasure to use.

We all have a different journey. Mine is different than most and I would not change that for anything. I have never enjoyed my face and head shaves as much as I do these days and I'm sure as tech evolves so will my gear and level of enjoyment.
 
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Using my personal criteria for razors:

efficiency + smoothness + nimble & maneuverable + predictable = overall effectiveness

I've shaved with expensive razors that didn't make the cut and inexpensive razors that did.

My highest scoring razors are certainly not inexpensive, but they are certainly not the most expensive razors out there. ;)
C75FE1AD-9247-472C-B836-D813B0560E33.gif
 
Cheap is a matter of opinion. To me $1,000 on something that I will get years of use out of and I use daily is very cheap. We all have different values and values on how we see and spend money. Thus is life and the beauty of it. For me and my wife we value time and control of it the most vs typical consumerism. I might have miss conveyed my intent with my analogy of the 100 $50 brushes vs 1 $500 brush. This analogy never mentions that a $50 brush is not of quality but instead was stating how people lose sight of quantity vs quality in that matter. Which is a very normal American issue. But even quality is very subjective.

For the last 10 years I have used that 10066 Boar brush that cost $15. I know it will last me the rest of my life. But I can say with out a doubt now owning a few higher end badger brushes I don't ever grab that 10066 Boar brush. These days we are very spoiled as you can get many quality items for less than $50. Until two weeks ago the most I spent on a brush was around $50. To me there really are different levels of quality if you really break it down.

At the higher end of quality comes perks and more luxury. Mind you when I say quality I don't put a price tag on it. My 97 Land Cruiser is quality yet much cheaper than many newer vehicles these days. That black beauty of yours is quality that I think is hard to find these days! I'm somewhat of a vintage Gillette razor fan as that is all I have used for the last 10 years until about two weeks ago. My mantra is I spend more money on the higher end of things as a person who does not spend money often and I don't own many things in life I rather have fewer items that not only will last me but are a true pleasure to use.

We all have a different journey. Mine is different than most and I would not change that for anything. I have never enjoyed my face and head shaves as much as I do these days and I'm sure as tech evolves so will my gear and level of enjoyment.
Hi Dave,

First thank you for your service.

You may have missed my initial point is that for our highest end shaving hardware manufacturing quality is no longer driving the price. Instead the price is driven by intentional scarcity and collectability. B&Bers have posted regarding vendors who increased the price of limited production $200 brushes towards $500 rather than allow resellers to flip them at the higher price. That is why, as you noted, that these items hold their value even when used. Part if the price is for the quality materials and craftsmanship with a significant portion due to the collectable nature of the product.

The statement "spend the money on quality vs quantity" implies that one can't have both and that by purchasing in quantity one is accepting lower or poor quality. Per you last post I understand that was not your intent. $50 and even our $15 brushes, as you noted, are of good quality and can last a lifetime. Each of us can collect shaving tools per our personal preferences ranging from those with a single boar brush purchased solely for its utility to those who have large dens that can accommodate their preference for 50+ brushes and everything in between.

My initial comment regarding your use of the word cheap was rooted in that aren't you are really talking about value? The primary dictionary definitions of cheap per Webster is:
  • Charging or obtainable at a low price
  • Of inferior quality or worth
You don't mean either of those things regarding $1,000 worth of quality equipment. Don't you mean that this type of equipment is worth it because it delivers high value (high relative worth, utility, or importance in relation to price) from a lifetime of potential use and enjoyment of a finely crafted product that is also a collectable? Additionally as a collectable the items are potentially investments that will hold or possibly appreciate in value such as the $1,275 Varlet noted in your first post. As another example I've typically never seen MdC shaving soaps referred to as cheap at around $70 each. Many B&Bers note that MdC is a great value because it lasts a long time delivers a great experience for only pennies per shave.

While I'm more focused on excellent utility from high value quality shaving tools , I understand and respect those whose preferences lead to a different value equation. Substitute the word "Value" for "Cheap" and you are absolutely right that value is a matter of opinion. Per my original post #24 above in this thread this is a great hobby where each of us can tailor his or her experience to our personal preferences

I look forward to following your shaving journey as you use your new brushes. It's a pleasure to see your excitement and enjoyment from using these.

When I returned to DE shaving 3 years ago I did start with some actually cheap brushes that did not work well or fell apart. Thanks to B&B posts I was able to settle on the three Razorock brushes (two synthetic plissoft and one boar) that work really well while holding up to regular use. My focus over the past few months has been to expand my soap rotation into some of the classics including MWF, Tabac, TFS Red Bowl and LEA Menthol cream with some D.R. Harris, Cyril R Salter and LEA shaving sticks waiting in the wings. Still using Williams, Arko, Van Der Hagen and my custom blends.
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
I have brushes that range in price from $10 to $200..... I'll be using quite a few inexpensive brushes during DecemBOAR month. It should be fun.

The same with my small razor collection. They range from free (a gracious PIF from @luvmysuper ) to ~$300. That is part of the enjoyment of traditional wet shaving these days.. so many great choices.
 
Man I'd never reach $1000 and probably not even $500. Most expensive razor is the Rocnel that I ordered but all my other accompanying shave supplies are pretty cheap. My soaps don't go over $20 and my brushes don't exceed $30!
 
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