Terrorist Profiling

[Jim]

Terrorist Profiling,

The following was sent to me via e-mail and in its original form was written in a sarcastic style,many of you might have also received it.
This posts bottom line is about racism or bias.
I am repulsed by bias and stereotypical thinking, for the most part I believe it is a excuse for slothful and insipid thinking. I edited the sarcastic comments and just left the "facts" behind. I am deeply troubled by the impression that it has left behind in me. I live in the shadows of the World trade center.
Is this the answer?

___________________________________________________________________

To ensure we Americans never offend anyone -- particularly
fanatics intent on killing us -- law enforcement and security
screeners are not allowed to "profile" people in public places or
security checkpoints But targeting Middle Eastern male Islamists between the ages 17 and 40 constitutes "ethnic profiling."




In 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17and 40.

In 1972, 11 Israeli athletes were killed at the Munich Olympics by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

During the 1980's numerous Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon
by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70-year-old disabled American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy
diver was murdered by Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1993, the WorldTradeCenter was bombed by Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1995, a plot to blow up U.S.-bound international flights over
the Pacific was attempted by Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17
and 40.

In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2000, 17 sailors died in an attack on the USS Cole (DDG 67) in Yemen by Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked -- two flown into the World Trade Centers, one into the Pentagon and one into the ground in rural Pennsylvania. Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2002 the United States liberated Afghanistan from Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl and other Westerners were kidnapped and beheaded by Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2002, more than 330 hostages in Beslan and 130 hostages in Moscow were murdered in sieges byMiddle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2003 the United States liberated Iraq from "The Butcher of Baghdad," but most American military personnel were killed by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2004, more than 200 Spanish civilians were murdered on trains by bombs in Madrid, detonated by Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2005 more than 50 UK citizens were killed by bombs on trains in London, detonated by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2005, there were hundreds of casualties, men, women and children, killed by bombs in Jerusalem, Riyadh and Amman. These innocent civilians were murdered by Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2005, the city of Paris, and other European cities experienced an extended period of riots and destruction. The unrest was led by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

Since the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, more than 2,500 Americans have been murdered by terrorists. 35,000 Iraqi men women and children have also been murdered by terrorists. Most of the combat and civilians casualties were the result of bombs
detonated in civilian population centers by: Middle Eastern Islamist males between the agesof 17 and 40.

In 2006, hundreds of Israeli civilians have been killed by rockets launched by Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2006, a plot to blow up 10 U.S.-bound planes from the U.K. was attempted Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

Since 2001, the FBI reports that there are major terrorist cells still in U.S. urban centers. Several of these cells have been uncovered and cell members arrested. In every case, the terrorists cell members were Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

President George Bush said this week, "America is at war withIslamic fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us who love freedom, to hurt our nation." The Council onAmerican-Islamic Relations issued an immediate objection to the President's peference to "Islamic fascists". Nihad Awad, executive director of CAIR protested, "We have to isolate these individuals because there is nothing in the Koran or the Islamic
faith that encourages people to be cruel or to be vicious or to be criminal. Muslims world wide know that for sure." In light of his objection, we are left to ponder why every Islamic leader in the U.S., and the world, does not publicly condemn every terror
action being undertaken in the name of the god of Islam. Their
silence is deafening...

Between 1970 and present, there were more than 60 other notable
examples of terrorism perpetrated by Middle Eastern male
Islamists between the ages 17 and 40, but we think you get the
point. Singling out "Middle Eastern male Islamists between the
ages 17 and 40" is not "ethnic profiling," it's "terrorist
profiling" -- acting on prolific evidence.

 

[ada8356]

It certainly is a tough predicament that we find ourselves in.

There is an obvious theme when you consider terrorist acts, but then again, it's somewhat dishonest to use examples from the middle east mainly because statistics dictate that your hypothesis will be correct. I would guess that I can also just say 90% of drivers in the middle east are islamic males between the ages of 17-40 and I would be pretty close to correct.

On the other hand, I get very upset when Ma and Pa Kettle get the third degree when going though airline security... the worst was when I saw an older couple flying during the holidays and someone had decided that every one of the wrapped gifts that they had in their check luggage had to be opened!!

The main question that we (US citizens) have to ask ourselves, is what limitations will we allow to be placed on our freedoms and rights to 'protect' ourselves? And if we do allow these limitations, then have the terrorist 'won' anyway?

 

[Jim]

Aaron

Your post is what I hoped would be the tone of this discussion, Just to be perfectly clear These "facts" are not mine and I am not proposing that we implement profiling. I am promoting discussion!

 

[gc_30286]

while i do not disagree with profiling (and its not illegal dispite common myth.)
i believe that it is of no use to airport security. even if it were true that all terrorist are middle eastern islamic males between the ages of 17-40 given these terrorist lack of respect for life they woul have no problem using say their eight year old duaghter to cary the bomb. also there are many americans being recruited into these organizations. profiling would olny lower our guard and open other avenues for attack.

 

[thatbrian]

Better a few offended than many killed.

No, scratch that, better if even many are offended than even a few killed.

Never Forget...

 

[catatonic]

Profiling is a valuable tool if used right....problem is it's very easily abused.

Profiling by race and age is just stupid, and won't solve anything.

What would is if there was intelligence of citizens of x,y, and z nations...provide some degree of info about them, and then go after anyone that resembles them. Race does not equal resemblance.

The thing that makes me angry about Racism is the very people who are against it are promoting it as well. Only way racism can die is when people stop letting the racists get to them. It's a battle of the mind.

I've had the displeasure of growing up in a very racist area, as a person who is also of middle eastern descent...my mother is Iranian. I am proud of my heritage on both side of the family, and I have seen the ugliest sides of Racism....when even your teacher referred to you as "camel jockey", it's pretty disparaging. Only reason they ever found out was a person I thought was my "friend" came over to my house, and saw all the middle eastern artifacts that we keep around, asked abou it,and found out. Most people don't even think my mom is Iranian when they look at her, even other Iranians...go figure.

I also had to learn to fight exceptionally well and viciously, due to how many times I got gang-beat for being what I am, as well as protect any woman that would date me from those same pricks.

I don't hate the racists, I pity them for failing to understand that anyone can be a good and upstanding person. They act the way they are because they feel "the others" are bringing down their society, when in reality it's both sides cutting each other down that's destoying it. I've tried my best throughout my entire life to be a good person, and I have messed up on the way, but I also learned from it.

I pity the fool that created that email...he doesn't realize how ineffective that would be. Could he recognize me as a person of half middle eastern descent? I doubt it.

 

[jnich67]

There is a fine line here and its difficult to find the right balance, but we have to try.

Profiling does have legitimate uses. For example, the FBI profilers who hunt serial killers do look at race along with other factors. The fact is that most serial killers are white men. If a woman is murdered, the police look to the husband/boyfriend first. That's because in most cases, they are the culprits. This is just common sense. I don't see a problem with this type of thing as long as its based on serious analysis. We just have to be careful that it doesn't get out of hand.

Jordan

 

[ada8356]

There is a fine line here and its difficult to find the right balance, but we have to try.

Profiling does have legitimate uses. For example, the FBI profilers who hunt serial killers do look at race along with other factors. The fact is that most serial killers are white men. If a woman is murdered, the police look to the husband/boyfriend first. That's because in most cases, they are the culprits. This is just common sense. I don't see a problem with this type of thing as long as its based on serious analysis. We just have to be careful that it doesn't get out of hand.

Jordan

While that is valid and makes sense to most folks, perception is everything... and the way people CHOOSE to perceive it.

I've said it in other posts, terrorists will use our own freedoms against us in order to acheive their goals... ironically the same freedoms for which they claim to hate us!

 

[stropmegently]

Perception is the key here. No matter what we do, someone, somewhere, will perceive it as wrong to them. That person will complain, and society as a whole will have to change for the whim of one person. No matter what is said, someone will take it wrong. How is this relevent to the topic at hand? Well, racial/ethnic, age, or whatever type of profilling is proven to work when used as one tool. Other tools are needed as well, the biggest tool being common sense (IMO). So, how do we implement profiling in a widescale? In a brief answer, we can not. I do not believe that the skill of profiling can be taught without a comprehensive program, such as a psychology masters degree or better. Better methods need to be found to the current sanctions and searches. We are x-raying everyone, searching bags by hand, not allowing liquids, or even gel bras for heavens sake! If a professional athelete will reverse catheterize himself (for those who do not know what that is, it is when one has a catheter placed to drain the bladder, but after draining the bladder, "clean" urine is placed into the bladder), can one not place the explosive liquid into his bladder? If he is going to kill himself anyway, what does he care if he hurts his bladder? Are we next going to implement a bladder scan on anyone who wants to fly to ensure that his bladder is empty? How about the colon? One could store stuff up there as well. I do not have the answers to these questions. I wish I did. Short of having drug, explosives and other types of dogs on board airplanes, arming the flight crew and stripping and locking all passengers to their seats, nothing can be done to provide 100% security.

Yesterday, a woman had a panic attack on an airplane, causing it to land emergently in Boston. She, last I heard, is being charged with a FEDERAL OFFENSE! The woman had a panic attack due to clausterphobia. To charge her is a crime! When someone has a panic attack, they freak out and although I believe someone essentially is always responsible for her actions, to charge her with a crime for an involuntary action seems a bit steep. As far as I have heard, she was not drunk or under the influence of any other substance.

I can understand the anger felt by visible minorities when they are the victim of unjust profiling, but the extra attention paid to them is due to proven precedents. As was mentioned by someone else, when a woman is murdered her husband or boyfriend is the first suspect. If my wife was killed, I would be angry to be looked at, but from an objective viewpoint, I understand it. We all appear to think profiling, or something like it, is effective and worthwhile until we are the victims of the act. When profiling catches someone we applaud it, when we are the victim of profiling, stopped on our way somewhere, we complain and threaten lawsuits. We, as a society, can not have it both ways. We either have to accept being stopped occasionally or risk being killed.

If proven statistics are used to justify an action, is that action not correct? Helmets are shown to save lives in motorcycle crashes, should they not be legal? Profiling, when done properly, is shown to help find killers. Alcohol is shown to slow reflexes, thus drinking and driving is illegal. The only way to prevent breast cancer, in both men and women, is to remove ALL the breast tissue (no tissue, no cancer). All the above things are very radical, but also very effective. I think profiling could be very effective, but it would miss some people (as pointed out, the american from California who was caught in Afganistan as one glaring example).

It is easy for me to say that profiling should be implemented since I am white and; therefore, would be exempt from most searches. If I was middle eastern, or looked middle eastern, perhaps I would feel different. Bottom line though, does profiling work, and would it make it safer for us, most likely. If someone is going to put a bomb on his child, we are all in a world of hurt anyway.

In no way am I trying to offend anyone. Nor does this answer any questions. I wish I, or someone else, had answers to this problem.

Thanks for a great forum,

Darren

 

[stropmegently]

Profiling is a valuable tool if used right....problem is it's very easily abused.

Profiling by race and age is just stupid, and won't solve anything.

What would is if there was intelligence of citizens of x,y, and z nations...provide some degree of info about them, and then go after anyone that resembles them. Race does not equal resemblance.

I don't hate the racists, I pity them for failing to understand that anyone can be a good and upstanding person. They act the way they are because they feel "the others" are bringing down their society, when in reality it's both sides cutting each other down that's destoying it. I've tried my best throughout my entire life to be a good person, and I have messed up on the way, but I also learned from it.

I pity the fool that created that email...he doesn't realize how ineffective that would be. Could he recognize me as a person of half middle eastern descent? I doubt it.

I agree with what you say but don't know the answer to the question. If a white man killed a bank teller and drove off in a white car, the police could stop every white man in a white car and perhaps would catch their man, but perhaps not. What should the police do in that situation? An investigation is a search for facts and truths. In order to solve crimes individuals have to be inconvenienced. That is a terrible but true fact. We as a society have to come to a uniform viewpoint. Do we want to be safer and get back the freedoms we have given up? If searching me or my wife every time we fly will make it safer for others, so be it. Perhaps I say that because I am white but I do get searched, EVERY TIME! That being the case, am I being unfairly searched or "profiled"? Racism is a horrible crime which is usually committed by small minded and scared individuals. I am sorry you were vicitmized while growing up.

Darren

 

[catatonic]

I agree with what you say but don't know the answer to the question. If a white man killed a bank teller and drove off in a white car, the police could stop every white man in a white car and perhaps would catch their man, but perhaps not. What should the police do in that situation? An investigation is a search for facts and truths. In order to solve crimes individuals have to be inconvenienced. That is a terrible but true fact. We as a society have to come to a uniform viewpoint. Do we want to be safer and get back the freedoms we have given up? If searching me or my wife every time we fly will make it safer for others, so be it. Perhaps I say that because I am white but I do get searched, EVERY TIME! That being the case, am I being unfairly searched or "profiled"? Racism is a horrible crime which is usually committed by small minded and scared individuals. I am sorry you were vicitmized while growing up.

Darren

I know we are willing to go through that, It's just that mass searches are either going to slow things down to a crawl, or it's going to be done in a half-baked way, thus allowing these people to bring their explosives and whatnot aboard.

The rectum can hold massive amounts of liquid. If they restrict carry ons, they will just implant the explosives into themselves. The problem here is not posessions, but people.

I think in the end of the day, it boils down to "What exactly are these people angry about?" People don't just wake up one day and decide it might be fun to blow up a plane....there has to be something in it for them, whether money for their familiy, brainwashing by a cleric that works for these organizations, or something happened to them that they blame us for.

If we can figure out the why, and corect that, the problem will start to go away. Problems like this are not an on/off switch. Just killing off the terrorists will just make their family hate us, so now we have a new group to worry about....what kind of answer is that?

It's a tough situation, I just think we need to look at it with a level and calm head instead of knee-jerk reactions.