Tell Me About Moka Pots

[Phog Allen]

Good morning gents. My wife and I have recently 'discovered' Moka coffee pots. As I understand it, Bialetti was the original. I also understand they do NOT make espresso though they are often advertised as stove top espresso makers. I did a search of the cafe forum and found a few informative articles about them. The good, the bad, and some general musings. What I would like are some opinions as to brand of pot and roast of coffee to use.

I am somewhat confused about the "espresso" tag as it applies to coffee anymore. I was always under the impression it should describe the grind. Yet a lot of roasters anymore list the roast itself as espresso. I understand that companies like Illy make a moka grind just for these Lilliputian coffee pots.

I am of course familiar with the Bialetti Moka Express and its variant, the Brikka. As I understand it their resulting coffee is slightly different as well. I am also interested in newer stainless models. Some of them are just beautiful but the reviews for the Bialetti models are dodgy at best. I have also seen the Alessi and Vev Vigano brands and they look to be well made. So fire away gents and tell me why you would or would not buy a moka pot and which one would sway your purchase decision. Thank you.

Regards, Todd

 

[global_dev]

I was always under the impression it should describe the grind. Yet a lot of roasters anymore list the roast itself as espresso. I understand that companies like Illy make a moka grind just for these Lilliputian coffee pots.

Regards, Todd

I am no coffee drink expert, but I think the espresso connotation is both grind a and roast, where the roast should not be overly dark, maintaining some sweetness, while minimizing the bitterness and acidity.

I have seen some large moka pots, i think for about 8-9 cups.

I have never used one... though.. for espresso based drinks i compromised with a nespresso concept machine.

 

[JPDyson]

I have a Bialetti and it produces enjoyable results, but not what a good "proper" espresso machine can. Way cheaper though...

Note: they really mean it when they say it ought to be used "full"; that is, if you want a small amount, you need a small Moka. If you want more, you get a bigger one. You don't use a big one "half full".

 

[takeshi]

I am no coffee drink expert, but I think the espresso connotation is both grind a and roast, where the roast should not be overly dark, maintaining some sweetness, while minimizing the bitterness and acidity.

It's the grind, roast/blend/bean and drink itself. You use espresso ground espresso roast to brew espresso. However, if you brew with a moka pot the end result isn't espresso.

As for the grind and roast there's not really one specific grind or roast for espresso. There are lighter espresso roasts and darker espresso roasts. There are blends and single origin options as well.

 

[Monkeyboy]

Moka pots cannot make true espresso. The term espresso really only applies to the finished drink, there isn't such a thing as an espresso roast for example.

Moka pots make strong coffee but it's not espresso. I've tried a couple and they make coffee that I didn't care for - have to add a lot of sugar to counter the bitterness they produce. And when I was using them the frustrating thing was they'd make the best coffee when I'd put as much coffee in as I could get away with but then sometimes it would be a hair too much and wouldn't brew because it was too tight to get the water through.

If you want to try it give it a shot with preground Illy or Lavazza coffee. I found Illy at World Market.

If you're end game is to make a strong, concentrated cup of coffee on the stove, turkish coffee might be something worth looking at. It tastes worlds better IMHO but some people are bothered by the sediment in the cup.

 

[SiBurning]

Biatelli seems to have some quality issues with the interior finish of the bottom pieces on their aluminum pots. If they're not clean and clear, the aluminum can taint the water. I've had poor luck with them new. Looking through a few at the stores, it seems this isn't just a fluke. The top pieces have all been good. It's just the inside of the water reservoir that seems to be off.

If I have to replace my moka express, I'd probably try a stainless steel model next. That eliminates the whole problem with aluminum. It might be a Bialetti, but having gone through a less than perfect moka express and a brikka, I'm willing to look elsewhere.

I love the coffee from the moka express, but didn't make a good cup from the brikka before ruining it. The difference between the two is the timing of the water through the puck. The brikka has a weighted piece on top and gives about a 3 second pressurized pull, while the brikka has about a 20-30 second pull. Because of the speed and pressure, the brikka does an extraction that's much closer to a really short espresso pull. It shows in the taste, which is somewhat similar to the aeropress, both of which are reminiscent of a mediocre espresso shot. The moka express produces rich, syrupy coffee.

 

[Phog Allen]

Thank you gents. Sounds like a few of you have had some experience with these pots. I still want one if for no other reason than to have a cute little kitchen accessory. I will probably go stainless steel though. It is just too easy to take care of and the polished version are gorgeous.

Steve, I am really glad you replied. I read your older posts on the Brikka but was not quite sure if you were done with or could live with it. If you don't mind my asking, what calamity happened to it? I think for this type of coffee making the slower pull of the regular models is likely the way to go. Some of the Alessi and Vev models are beautiful and do not seem to generate the user complaints the stainless models of Bialetti do. Have you settled on a grind preference for the regular pots? Thank you.

Regards, Todd

 

[SiBurning]

I've had 2 moka express pots. The first had some inconsistencies in the bottom, but after a couple weeks I put it on the stove without water and that was the end of it. I eventually replaced the melted gasket, but the already pitted aluminum got even worse and I couldn't use it. While it's my own fault for destroying it, it wasn't in good condition to start with, and it affected the taste of the coffee. The second one was clean inside and I use it often. It makes fantastic coffee, and if I ever ruin it, I'll definitely replace it. The question is with what?

I had the brikka for a few weeks. While it was clean inside, I couldn't get a tasty cup from it. Perhaps the grind wasn't right,or the weight was off, or who knows. One day I forgot it on the stove and the plastic top melted. I won't replace it, but only because the end result isn't something I want to pursue. One day I might get an espresso machine, but until then, I'd rather just have good coffee at home and go out for espresso.

I'm kind of torn on a next model because I prefer to have aluminum for its even heating, but the downside is aluminum is volatile. Let's assume you get a clean one to start with, and not one that's been poorly made or sitting around getting tarnished and pitted. The top part will eventually get coated with coffee oils that protect the surface from further pitting and prevent the aluminum from affecting the water. The bottom part will always be pure water, and that's problematic for the long term. It needs to be coated, perhaps with tin. I'm not quite sure the Biatellis aren't lined: sometimes it looks like the interiors of the bottoms do have a coating, but I'm not sure at all. Stainless steel won't conduct heat evenly, so I'm kind of leery of it. I love my aluminum & copper cookware with stainless interior coatings, and would love to find a moka pot that had that combination of safety and heat conduction.

It's hard to talk about grind because there's too many variable. Some beans are dry or oily, and that affects how they come out of the grinder, and also affects the brewing. I put some of the dry beans into a cone filter the day after roasting and they soak up water instantly and don't bloom. Other beans take over a minute to soak up the water. Under pressure, as they are in the moka pot, these differences are even more important. The grind is always on the fine side for the moka, maybe a little coarser than I use for drip. If it's a dry bean, I might pack it in a bit.

 

[Phog Allen]

Thanks Steve-o. I think these little beasties are cute as the Dickens and want one just for the heck of it. I have looked up a few models of Bialetti, Viv, and Alessi and linked the photos here. Bialetti makes gorgeous looking stainless pots but the reviews are simply all over the place. The other fare much better but do carry a higher price. Like you, I cannot understand why these companies are upgrading to stainless and not making a laminated bottom for them. I have some cheap Tramontina sauce pans that are stainless throughout but have a thick laminated bottom with a sandwich of aluminium in between the stainless. It works famously. We will see how this goes. In the meantime here are some photos lads.

Bialetti Class 4 cup

Isla 3 cup

Vev Vigana Kontessa Gold 4 cup

Primula

And the near artwork Alessi models. They had better look good. They run to $200 or so!

 

[SiBurning]

The top of the moka pot gets hot before the coffee comes through to the top. With stainless, I only worry that the top won't get nearly as hot and might cool the coffee somewhat on its way up. Otherwise, there's little advantage to thick metal when you're just heating water. And stainless coated aluminum isn't cheap. That's the practical and economic why of it. As long as the top doesn't cool the coffee, I don't see any one going through the trouble.

Those are quite nice looking, but $200? I'm gonna try to keep my moka express running as long as possible. Meanwhile, if you try another brand, let us know how it works out.

 

[Phog Allen]

Hi Steve. Okay, I get what you are saying about the heat to height ratio sort of thing. Makes sense really. I suppose a laminate bottom to the boiler pot is really superfluous since water is not going to stick to the pot or need constant stirring.

As for the fancy Alessi pots, they are ridiculously priced in my opinion. Well as much as you can have an honest opinion of something you have not used! I was attracted to them because of the way the two halves of the pot are attached to each other. Instead of threading together the top part has catch point notch on it that goes over a tab on the boiler vessel. The handle, which pivots on its top mounting point, then levers down to cam over a tab on the back of the of boiler to lock the two pieces together. I don't know if this is superior or preferable to threading the two pieces together but it is pretty neat to watch. I saw it in action on a German coffee site. The Bialetti and Viv models are MUCH more reasonably priced with models between $30-75. I really like the looks of the Bialetti "Class" and the Kontessa Gold.

Regards, Todd

 

[biomesh]

I have two moka pots, both bialetti. For me they are nice when you don't have time to babysit the brewing process (I use pour over cone filters 95% of the time).

I have a 4 tasse Class model and a 10 tasse Venus model. The Venus model I found at a Tuesday Morning store for around $25 and it was in perfect condition.

Cleanup for the stainless steel models is easy and they work well for being basically a single rotation/step percolator. The result is different than true espresso or even drip brew coffee, but still a good cup.

 

[CalamityJack]

I use the bialetti 4 cup express which makes 1 regular U.S. size cup of coffee. I buy beans that are espresso roast (not too dark-I'm told stage 6 of roasting). I grind it by hand with a ceramic conical burr almost as fine as it will go. It takes a little experimentation. Grind as fine as possible- then back off until the bitterness is gone. I also have the bialetti with the weight that pops up and makes about a half a cup (american) of very creamy and somewhat stronger coffee that the express. I like the moka express the best for a good tasting smooth cup of coffee, and everything else tastes like lungo now.

 

[TickTock]

Espresso is a method of making coffee using high pressure hot water. However, the term is used for roast types and grind types as well, though true coffee geeks reserve the term espresso for the brewing method.

In the US, at least, for a long time 'espresso roast' meant a very dark roast, which is pretty typical of the Southern Italian espresso tradition. Northern Italy typically uses a lighter roast. Probably this is due to the South being poorer and a dark roast can cover for cheaper coffee. In the US, most Italian immigrants came from the south, so the dark roast was normal espresso for them.

Espresso needs a fine grind as well, so often 'espresso grind' is just a synonym for a very fine grind, but not almost-powdered, which is usually called 'Turkish' grind. The fine grind is necessary since it's the resistance of the coffee to having water pushed through it that creates the pressure which extracts the coffee. Espresso will extract about 20% of the weight of the original coffee into the liquid.

With so much extracted, flaws in the coffee like excess bitterness or astringency can be completely overwhelming, so the vast majority of espresso is made from blends of different beans to make sure the result is good. Some coffees which are excellent as drip or whatever, such as Kenyan coffee, make terrible espresso. (Kenyan has a lovely winey astringency that makes for puckering awful espresso.)

Moka pots are very common in Italian households--few people there have home espresso machines (when an espresso bar of average Italian quality is down the street, why make your own?). They're often called stovetop espresso pots, but they don't come near the pressure required to make true espresso. However, they make excellent strong coffee!

Here's what I do to get the best results:

1) I heat the water almost to the boil first and then pour it into the bottom before I screw the top on. Make sure no coffee is on the gasket otherwise it won't seal well

2) you'll have to experiment to get a grind that provides some resistance to the water flowing through, but not so much to choke it. A little finer than drip, but not nearly as fine as espresso is a good starting place.

3) fill the coffee holder and press it down a little but not too much--real espresso gets a nice firm tamp, but the moka pot gets a nice smooth down but not much more. Overloading it can make it stall. The above advice that if you want a different amount of coffee you need a different size pot is good. Fill the coffee holder, fill the water part (up to the level of the safety valve is what I do).

4) heat gently until the coffee starts to sputter out and then keep the heat low enough so that is just dribbles. If it starts to spurt and violently spit the coffee out you'll get harsh burnt flavors

5) sometimes I'll put a tablespoon of water in the top of the pot (where the coffee comes out) to prevent the first drops of coffee from overheating.

6) here's something that's popular in the Hispanic world, and is usually called Cuban coffee: take the first tablespoon of coffee or so that comes out and put it in a little cup. Whip some sugar into that coffee until it froths, then add it back at the end.

7) 50/50 with hot milk is what I like.

8) the aluminum pots are fine, and have better heat conduction than stainless, though you do have to watch for pitting over the years. Typically people say that if you use them every day they're great. Some kind of coffee-flavored coating or something. Somebody's Italian mom once told me to never wash it with soap but just rinse it in hot water.

 

[Jasonian]

It's the grind, roast/blend/bean and drink itself. You use espresso ground espresso roast to brew espresso. However, if you brew with a moka pot the end result isn't espresso.

As for the grind and roast there's not really one specific grind or roast for espresso. There are lighter espresso roasts and darker espresso roasts. There are blends and single origin options as well.

I would like to simplify further. Espresso is a brew method. Every brew method requires specific parameters. If you saw a can of coffee that said, "French Press" you would know only that it were coarsely ground. The same is true of a can of coffee that says, "Espresso".

However, espresso is foreign and mysterious to a great many people, and so they become ignorant in a situation where they would otherwise feel quite comfortable in explaining what it means to a fellow shopper.

All coffee can be brewed as espresso. Just like all coffee can be brewed as drip, french press, moka, or what have you.

That having been said, the right coffee for the moka pot is the coffee that you find that you enjoy the most.

The trick is to start with boiling water, and don't crank the heat on to "high" for brewing unless you enjoy scalded coffee. Also, don't tamp.

 

[bogiesan]

The best advice I ever got on how to get better results out of a moka-style brewer:
1. As stated earlier, a bit of water in the top will prevent the the first dribbles of coffe from scorching.
2. Take the unit off the heat after the first dribbles show up. This makes the coffee about as strong as it can be and guarantees steam will not pass through the puck which will incinerate the grounds and wreck the flavor you've obtained.

david boise ID