Tell me about building brushes.

[Aloxite]

Obviously I'm a FNG here, so I've probably missed something obvious where they discuss this stuff. I'm interested in building a brush. More accurately I'd like to build my own handles. So I'd like to read some information about how to build them.

Do you buy the knots already assemble? Where is a good place to buy them?

I'm thinking about doing a handle out of African Blackwood. Then later maybe do a set of scales for a straight razor to match. Being a clarinet player I've always liked the feel of that dense, oily wood. This may complicate building a tad since it won't accept glue, but I think there is always a way to work around that.

Thanks in advance.

 

[skipnord]

Hi Aloxite
Google Don McIvor and check out his site. Then go to links, and browse around. One of them shows you just about everything you need to know about turning brushes. Also, the Wood Turning magazine he mentions with his article is a good source, if you can find the back issue. I use a $100 small small variable speed lathe and about $200 in various accessories. Lots of fun, and soon I will be posting some for sale. Good luck, and post your results!

 

[Aloxite]

I've got a small lathe. It's an old Craftsman metal lathe with a four jaw chuck. It's real small. I haven't measured it but it's probably a three inch throw. The tailstock uses a 'Zero' size Morris taper. I need to get a motor on it but that should be pretty straightforward. I picked it up at an antique tractor swapmeet for $60.

African Blackwood is an oddity. You pretty much need to work it with metal cutting tools. Trying to turn it on a wood lathe would be suicide. The nice thing about it is that it is so dense and oily that you don't have to finish it. It turns out smooth and glossy.

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

 

[cooncatbob]

Many exotic woods can cause allergic reactions, so you'll want to chch on the wood before you buy it, also sometimes a air dried version will cause a reaction but a kiln dried version won't. Here's a site that can provide some information.
http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-and-toxicity/

 

[Aloxite]

That's a very good point Bob. I don't think I have any problems with this one. I've built a couple of nick nacks out of this wood that involved a bunch of sanding and didn't have any reaction. Which is pretty amazing since it seems like I'm allergic to just about everything. ETA - The dust from this wood is crazy. It looks like baking chocolate.

I've got a pretty good local resource for exotic woods. Gilmer Wood is only a couple of miles from where I work. Even just stopping by to pick through their trash bin has yielded some nice pieces. If anyone is interested in some really weird woods, check out their site.

http://www.gilmerwood.com/

 

[Aloxite]

Don McIvor sure does some nice work. He has a couple of pictures of Blackwood brushes on his site. It's neat to see the contrast with the lighter colored sapwood.

http://www.mcivorwoodworks.com/african_blackwood_shaving_mug%20and%20brush.htm

http://www.mcivorwoodworks.com/Af%20Blackwood%2025mm_shaving_brush.htm

 

[Aloxite]

I went ahead and put an order in at The Golden Nib. I picked up two silvertip knots and a six pack of the red sable cosmetic brushes. Once I make some sawdust on the lathe I can cross six women off of my Christmas list.

Can anyone tell me how deep the knot should be in the bore of the handle?

IE, how much past the glued together part of the knot should be inside the bore?

 

[skipnord]

Depends on what you want the brush to do - this is referred to as "loft". Generally, brushes used with soap are set a bit deeper than those intended for cream. If you are not sure, I'd suggest just below the epoxy plug on the knot. There is a really good Rudy Vey post about loft - see if you can find it - He is a wealth of information! Make sure you swab the hole out really good with some form of alcohol - lacquer thinner, etc., before you epoxy the knot. Oily wood and epoxy don't play nice!

 

[ccnutman]

One way is turn them like bottle stoppers, i.e. Drill hole in end to fit badger knot. I grind down spade bits. Then drill and tap to mount bottle stopper mandrel in this badger knot hole. Then mount blank and mandrel into a chuck mounted on headstock. I use a small pvc coupler between opposite end and live center on tail stock. Turn away.
terry

 

[ccnutman]

As far as the depth to set the knot, the deeper, the stiffer the brush. I cut several 2x4 blanks 1.5x1.5 and drilled several depths, and made a quick test with soap. This is all personal preference and the soap you use.
terry

 

[Aloxite]

Thanks for the info. I'll search for info on loft. So far I've only used soaps so I'll probably swing that way for now.

I like the idea of the bottle stopper mandrel. That should simplify things.

My idea for gluing in the knot is to carve some gouges deep into the bore. That way the epoxy can key into that void. I figure that way I can lock it in tight. From what I've read, cracks in Blackwood clarinets can't be successfully glued. They need to be pinned to be repaired. So I don't have high expectations for the glue sticking to it.

How are you going about gluing in the knot? I'm just figuring I'd wrap up the bristles tight in blue masking tape and shove it in after slathering in some epoxy.

 

[cooncatbob]

Thanks for the info. I'll search for info on loft. So far I've only used soaps so I'll probably swing that way for now.

I like the idea of the bottle stopper mandrel. That should simplify things.

My idea for gluing in the knot is to carve some gouges deep into the bore. That way the epoxy can key into that void. I figure that way I can lock it in tight. From what I've read, cracks in Blackwood clarinets can't be successfully glued. They need to be pinned to be repaired. So I don't have high expectations for the glue sticking to it.

How are you going about gluing in the knot? I'm just figuring I'd wrap up the bristles tight in blue masking tape and shove it in after slathering in some epoxy.

That's what I do, I put a rubber band around the hair then masking tape at the line where it's going to sit in the socket.
I also lightly sand the epoxy plug with sandpaper to knock off the square edges and also give the new epoxy something to grip onto.
If you like a firm brush good for soaps GN has some nice Black Badger.

 

[woodfluter]

From what I've read, cracks in Blackwood clarinets can't be successfully glued. They need to be pinned to be repaired. So I don't have high expectations for the glue sticking to it.

Hi Aloxite -

From my username, you might guess why I'm writing. I play African blackwood flutes (Dalbergia melanoxylon).

I've repaired a couple of old ones that had cracks using clear epoxy glue (sometimes mixed with wood shavings when filling gaps), or cyanoacrylate where a perfect match was possible. I added a block to the surface of another flute.

Repairs are quite commonly done and pinning isn't generally needed with modern glues. Here's an example repair, done by the guy who made my favorite flute:
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/headcrack.html

This supplier says it glues OK:
http://www.cookwoods.com/Blackwood.htm

I would certainly use alcohol to degrease the surfaces as far as possible.

The wood should be an excellent choice for a brush handle as it is very dense and absorbs exceptionally little water.

By the way, has anyone given consideration to making a non-turned handle? Perhaps hexagonal or octagonal, or even square in section like some Omega brushes? I can see facets, grooves, all sorts of possibilities - things that can be done freehand with planes, files, knives.

- Bill

 

[Aloxite]

I've repaired a couple of old ones that had cracks using clear epoxy glue (sometimes mixed with wood shavings when filling gaps), or cyanoacrylate where a perfect match was possible. I added a block to the surface of another flute.

Repairs are quite commonly done and pinning isn't generally needed with modern glues. Here's an example repair, done by the guy who made my favorite flute:
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/headcrack.html

Cool. Thanks for the information. I guess it pays off to be crafty when you are baroque.


Thanks folks. I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your wait staff.

 

[tachi1247]

Another option would be to make a taller handled brush and try to screw something into the wood that the glue would attach to. If you made a thimble out of something thing then you could screw that to the bottom of the bore hole and glue the knot to the thimble.

 

[cooncatbob]

I've got a small lathe. It's an old Craftsman metal lathe with a four jaw chuck. It's real small. I haven't measured it but it's probably a three inch throw. The tailstock uses a 'Zero' size Morris taper. I need to get a motor on it but that should be pretty straightforward. I picked it up at an antique tractor swapmeet for $60.
Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

Craftsman lathes were usually rebranded Atlas lathe.
You can make a lot more things with machine lathe then you can with a wood lathe, you can make your own wood working lathe, I did.
This forums has a section on Atlas Lathes.
http://www.machinistweb.com/forum/

 

[Aloxite]

Another option would be to make a taller handled brush and try to screw something into the wood that the glue would attach to. If you made a thimble out of something thing then you could screw that to the bottom of the bore hole and glue the knot to the thimble.

That makes all sorts of sense. I am already going to be drilling and tapping the handle for the mandrel. So I can screw in a bolt and glue the knot to the bolt. Or I might be able to glue the knot to the bolt and then screw it in. I'm leaning toward the former.

 

[skipnord]

The threaded mandrel is used to attach the turning stock to the lathe, using a drill chuck on the motor end. This is removed when the turning is complete, and the hole filled with epoxy. Then the knot is glued into the hole with epoxy. The knot gluing and hole filling can be done in one operation. I think there is a how-to on the Golden Nib site, or on Tony's personal site. I'll check that out and get back to you.
Yep. There is a tutorial on shaving brush turning on the Golden Nib site - check it out. The use of a mandrel is explained. Good luck! Keep asking questions - we are all glad to help out.

 

[Aloxite]

Thanks. Somehow I missed the tutorial link the first time.

 

[Aloxite]

I will certainally post pics when I'm done. But don't hold your breath. This type of project will most likely wait until the weather turns foul. I can do this type of thing in the basement next to the wood burning furnace. I have too many projects to do outside and in the garage while the conditions are decent.

Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I will be able to get the replacement F engine dropped into my '64 Toyota Landcruiser Station Wagon. That one hasn't been on the road in years. Maybe next summer I can finally take it camping again.