Not at all.
Technique for Jaw Line and Neck to avoid Razorburn
- Thread starter retroman_1979
- Start date
MWF stinks......................
Shouldn't use pressure. Just go xtg on jaw line and atg on neck.
- Thread starter
- #24
I just received an order of mitchells wool fat shave soap under the Kent Brand.
I was expecting a tough grind to get it to lather decently due to comments I've read in this community. I put some water on the soap bar for about 3 min, then used my damp (not crazy wet) silvertip badger and bowl lathered.
It got out of control fast and tried to eat my brush.......
The shave was very good with very good slickness and a great feeling afterwards. I did safety and straight razor. very little if any irritation from the straight other than the cut I gave myself. Using some Arko aftershave balm there was 0 razor burn. It is crazy rare that happens and proves this is a fantastic shave soap. So far my favourites in order are: Tabac/MWF (tie), razorock triple milled hard soaps.....no other top soaps yet. I have Arko on order. I like the softer soaps, but weirdly find them tougher to lather for me than the hard pucks.
I was expecting a tough grind to get it to lather decently due to comments I've read in this community. I put some water on the soap bar for about 3 min, then used my damp (not crazy wet) silvertip badger and bowl lathered.
It got out of control fast and tried to eat my brush.......
The shave was very good with very good slickness and a great feeling afterwards. I did safety and straight razor. very little if any irritation from the straight other than the cut I gave myself. Using some Arko aftershave balm there was 0 razor burn. It is crazy rare that happens and proves this is a fantastic shave soap. So far my favourites in order are: Tabac/MWF (tie), razorock triple milled hard soaps.....no other top soaps yet. I have Arko on order. I like the softer soaps, but weirdly find them tougher to lather for me than the hard pucks.
You won’t have any trouble lathering Arko and the performance is up there with MWF and Tabac.
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- #26
Thanks Steve! My magic method at this point is a nice silvertip brush 24mm - 28mm and MWF or TABAC. The bowl rather is really nice and satisfying. So much so I ordered a 17th brush for my collection (I will have some unused for the buy and sell soon). Really looking for to getting my Arko packs in the next couple days from your comment.
Wow, 17! I have two Omega 10048s and a 10049. I’m stuck on Omega.
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- #28
Ill make it worse.......17 since March 15. Yep, Hard addiction. Hoping to sell a few soon
I end up just doing a 1.5 or 1.75 pass shave most mornings, but everything will vary so much on each individual beard.
I go long passes down a cheek and straight off my jaw, then long passes jaw down my neck. It’s roughly WTG cheek and ATG neck, but doesn’t really bother me anywhere with the right angles. I’ve gotten in the habit of also skewing the blade a little bit heel leading so there may be just a bit of scything action and slightly lower effective angle against the skin.
Then I go right under my jaw bones from chin outward to just under ear lobes, blade skewed. Roughly XTG. Then another pass same way but up on top of my jaw bones each way.
Chin is just light small passes, blade skewed, try not to start or stop a stroke at a “high point” on your features. The whiskers that are RIGHT SMACK on your chin can usually be stretched either up or down onto a flatter section of your face and then taken out with one or two good side swipe passes.
Then I do the reverse strokes along my jaw bones and up my chin and up my upper lip. I find those are the whiskers that will give a 5 o clock shadow. By two passing there only I usually can be baby smooth well past noon, and it actually seems to let everything start growing back in more evenly than if I ATG everywhere.
The second reverse strokes aren’t necessary most days, just when you expect extra face time with the boss lady after work.
I go long passes down a cheek and straight off my jaw, then long passes jaw down my neck. It’s roughly WTG cheek and ATG neck, but doesn’t really bother me anywhere with the right angles. I’ve gotten in the habit of also skewing the blade a little bit heel leading so there may be just a bit of scything action and slightly lower effective angle against the skin.
Then I go right under my jaw bones from chin outward to just under ear lobes, blade skewed. Roughly XTG. Then another pass same way but up on top of my jaw bones each way.
Chin is just light small passes, blade skewed, try not to start or stop a stroke at a “high point” on your features. The whiskers that are RIGHT SMACK on your chin can usually be stretched either up or down onto a flatter section of your face and then taken out with one or two good side swipe passes.
Then I do the reverse strokes along my jaw bones and up my chin and up my upper lip. I find those are the whiskers that will give a 5 o clock shadow. By two passing there only I usually can be baby smooth well past noon, and it actually seems to let everything start growing back in more evenly than if I ATG everywhere.
The second reverse strokes aren’t necessary most days, just when you expect extra face time with the boss lady after work.
- Thread starter
- #30
What is a reverse stroke? Against the grain?
Sorry just meant reverse of the first pass. First pass I go chin outwards toward ears, second ears back towards chin. It’s roughly WTG first/ATG second, but I do it that way along my jaw because my jaw is so pointed and angular not because of hair direction.
Neck is also my trouble area, with either razor burn or not getting close enough the usual consequence.
The right soap definitely helps - for me it was Arko puck, until I discovered Phoenix and Beau. Seems I need tallow soaps; results with Proraso were not good. YMMV of course.
Looking forward to trying some of the angle tricks. Nailed it on my cheeks; I get as close as with DE. But for me the problem is a wiry beard, sensitive skin and a left-to-right grain across my whole neck, which makes it very hard to go ATG due to hollows / angles (and if I don't, I don't get close). Discovered yesterday that a slight right-to-left motion while shaving gently down seems to help get closer. But you've got to be careful with that over your jugular...
The right soap definitely helps - for me it was Arko puck, until I discovered Phoenix and Beau. Seems I need tallow soaps; results with Proraso were not good. YMMV of course.
Looking forward to trying some of the angle tricks. Nailed it on my cheeks; I get as close as with DE. But for me the problem is a wiry beard, sensitive skin and a left-to-right grain across my whole neck, which makes it very hard to go ATG due to hollows / angles (and if I don't, I don't get close). Discovered yesterday that a slight right-to-left motion while shaving gently down seems to help get closer. But you've got to be careful with that over your jugular...
Here’s another thing to consider...
In western society when we struggle with something blade related, we often want to blame technique or try to grasp for some new gizmo to help solve this specific problem.
In Eastern society, you would likely just be told your blade is not sharp enough, try harder/better next time.
It’s an easy thought to test with some .3mu lapping film or “the method” and some very light stropping.
If you’re certain the tools are already up to par, the technique really does just come down to angles and pressure/lack of pressure. I like skewing the blade angle with the heel leading to get a little scything cut action, but I don’t recommend adding in any actual slicing blade movement. A slightly skewed blade angle with straight strokes will give you plenty of slice without any added risk, any attempt to intentionally slice with the blade movement will eventually have you slicing some skin. All this is on the foundation of a sharp blade that doesn’t need any tricks to push cut hair.
In western society when we struggle with something blade related, we often want to blame technique or try to grasp for some new gizmo to help solve this specific problem.
In Eastern society, you would likely just be told your blade is not sharp enough, try harder/better next time.
It’s an easy thought to test with some .3mu lapping film or “the method” and some very light stropping.
If you’re certain the tools are already up to par, the technique really does just come down to angles and pressure/lack of pressure. I like skewing the blade angle with the heel leading to get a little scything cut action, but I don’t recommend adding in any actual slicing blade movement. A slightly skewed blade angle with straight strokes will give you plenty of slice without any added risk, any attempt to intentionally slice with the blade movement will eventually have you slicing some skin. All this is on the foundation of a sharp blade that doesn’t need any tricks to push cut hair.
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Arko really is an excellent soap - one of my top favorites. When I shave my neck, I use my wrist to make arcing motions for the difficult areas and it works well. Give that a try and see if it works for your beard pattern. Also, skin stretching as needed.
Follow the correct whisker grain path when doing WTG, XTG and ATG passes. This alone will significantly reduce and even eliminate burns assuming quality lather and technique.
I have patches where there are two separate grain patterns. There is a spot on my neck, a little bigger than a thumbprint where I have hair that grows intermixed with almost opposite grain patterns. This is not a whirl or swirl, or a spot where grains change, they are truly mixed.
If I am extremely careful I can shave across both grains and get a passable first pass. Two passes across, from opposite directions leaves this area socially acceptable. A third pass across one grain or the other can leave it a pretty good CCS to almost DFS, but a fourth pass leaves it red, regardless of direction.
I commonly walk around with a red thumbprint just on the right side of my windpipe.
You have a tricky spot, the only advise in addition to what is already given is lots of skin stretching in multiple directions when shaving this area with zero pressure. Try using pre-shave oil on the trouble area. I hope you find a workable solution, it will come just keep experimenting.
I’ve got a crazy reverse grain strip right over my left jugular man, I feel your pain. Oddly enough, Now I just ignore grain direction and shave it all downwards so that’s the only WTG section below my jaw.
It’s really just the right combination of stretching, blade angle off your skin, pressure/no pressure, and sometimes a slight skew from direction of blade travel.
The chemical solutions can help quite a bit reducing irritation, but personally I don’t pre-treat and I use whatever soap my wife buys for me to try. Currently I’m on some glycerine nonsense but the best to reduce irritation would be a real thick tallow or lanolin type product like has already been recommended here.
My salvation was really finding the right edge at about the same time my technique got good. Did OP mention what he’s honing with currently or what he’s tried previously? Some honing methods have the distinct reputation of making less irritating edges, and it’s a widely shared experience by most users. The point where I could suddenly ignore grain direction was the point where I could reliably hone an excellent natural edge. How much of it was technique developing and how much of it was purely honing I couldn’t really say, but don’t ignore or overlook any aspect of the shave that could be contributing to the issues.
1. Use a good soap. If the razor is clinging to skin, relather.
2. STRETCH THE SKIN. This is so damn key, especially for the neck. If you don't stretch the skin of the neck very taut, you'll never get a close shave, and if you try, you will mangle your neck.
3. The Neck doesn't fit in with the old 3pass shave style... because there is no WTG XTG ATG on the neck, hair grows every direction imaginable and you need to learn which way and where it goes. For me this means ATG around my Adams apple is holding the blade vertical and cutting straight inward towards my Adams apple. This is very difficult to do, but key to getting a smooth shave... and I'm sure most if not all beards have spots like this. You have to develop methods that let you properly stretch and shave the area, otherwise you'll rub your neck raw trying to get ATG smoothness from an XTG pass because you haven't developed the angle/dexterity to get every spot ATG. That's the real trick to the neck in my opinion.
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- #40
Tonight I decided to use the straight dovo inox for the first time in awhile. Gave it a strop on green paste and leather. Broke out the mwf and lathered up. A weird thing happened. The razor felt to me like it was very dull, or something different. I did my normal shave but felt like it was dull but i couldnt put my finger on it. Completed passes, re lathered and for the first time attempted atg on my neck with a straight. Tried and tried to get smooth and it went very well. Left handed needs lots of practice though. All in all skin came out smooth with no burn even though I was fairly careless, or at least I thought.
Thinking about it afterwards I wonder if my blade was sharper than I thought? Also, mitchell wool fat must be incredible. So much shave work to have no rash and no nicks? Technique is improving a little due to practice and working on technique with de as well. Im very pleased and excited with this. I rewarded myself by purchasing about 7 vintage razors I dont need but look like fun
Anyone else have success stories to share?
Thinking about it afterwards I wonder if my blade was sharper than I thought? Also, mitchell wool fat must be incredible. So much shave work to have no rash and no nicks? Technique is improving a little due to practice and working on technique with de as well. Im very pleased and excited with this. I rewarded myself by purchasing about 7 vintage razors I dont need but look like fun
Anyone else have success stories to share?
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