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Technical issue with tape..or not

So...mostly because using tape on an oil stone can sometime turn into a sticky mess, I'm considering abandoning the tape all together on each of my razors.
Now...all 30 straights or so have properly set bevels. To re-hone these blades without tape, am I going to have any problems? I do NOT want to completely re-do these.
Thanks for any advice....
 
My only advice is to bite the bullet and rehone them as you go.

Tried tape many moons ago when it was the rage. My conclusion is that it works but for a properly made straight it isn't necessary.

Chris
 

steveclarkus

Goose Poop Connoisseur
So...mostly because using tape on an oil stone can sometime turn into a sticky mess, I'm considering abandoning the tape all together on each of my razors.
Now...all 30 straights or so have properly set bevels. To re-hone these blades without tape, am I going to have any problems? I do NOT want to completely re-do these.
Thanks for any advice....
I run into this frequently because I finish on diamond pasted balsa so a taped edge is not an option. The dealer I buy from uses tape as is typical of restorers. I have to reset the bevel on every razor and take it to finish. It is time consuming but there is no alternative for me. Generally, I don’t “believe” in taping as razors were not designed to be taped. Wedges are, of course, a different animal and I own none.
 
I never use tape.
But then again I seldom use a stone below 8000.
Once honed I never touch anything below 8000.Most of the time (99%) I use a simple 12000 touch up.Very lightly.
No need for tape.
 
I started learning how to hone using tape, then slash's comment on the board made sence when he said the edge and the spine have to wear together to keep the geometry the same throughout the blades life. I stopped taping and my edges improved because of the increased feedback. The only blade I have to tape is a 180-190 y/o wade and butcher because its a wedge.

Larry
 
I’ve used gorilla tape a couple times. Does not wear through and come apart or shed glue like electrical tape did. (on a bevel created using tape-since reset w/o)
 
I started learning how to hone using tape, then slash's comment on the board made sence when he said the edge and the spine have to wear together to keep the geometry the same throughout the blades life. I stopped taping and my edges improved because of the increased feedback. The only blade I have to tape is a 180-190 y/o wade and butcher because its a wedge.

Larry
If you honed a 7/8 down to a 5/8 while using tape it would certainly mess up the geometry. If you are taking care of the razor and touching up the edge as needed, you probably aren't going to put enough wear on the blade to adversely effect the bevel angle.
What size is the W&B?
 
It only took me a couple minutes on my stones to hone out the microbevel created by tape. Just hone as you normally would on a coarser stone and it will fix itself in no time.
 
If you honed a 7/8 down to a 5/8 while using tape it would certainly mess up the geometry. If you are taking care of the razor and touching up the edge as needed, you probably aren't going to put enough wear on the blade to adversely effect the bevel angle.
What size is the W&B?

I get your point, but why would i hone a 7/8 down to 5/8? I look at it this way, the blade on my W&B is 7/8 and is basically a block of cheese. If you use a cheese grater on a block of cheese and have it totally flat on it, you will great the entire block with each push in the grater. But if you lift the rear slightly you will grate only a bit of the point of the cheese and create a bevel. We can discuss all day about weather to use tape or not, but on a true wedge you have to beef the rear slightly with electrical tape to hone correctly or else you will be honing the entire width of the razor which will never cut anything except used as a letter opener. There are plenty of wedge blades on the bay where you see a wide swath of hone wear at the spine and towards the edge and the reason is the rear was never lifted slightly to hone and create a bevel. On a regular full hollow blade I don't tape, I'm not taking off that much material or honing with that much pressure to visually make a difference in how the razor looks or functions and a perfect bevel is made almost automatically. I also don't hone on synthetics which cut fast, I use Coticules and Arks. I use films when i get a new blade AFTER honing on a Coti or Ark dosen't give me a result in the end...then the films come out, I start from scratch, make a new polished clean bevel and work my way up...then from then on its Coti and Ark for that blade for the rest of its life. I start out with minimum first, if minimum dosen't work, I go for more material removal.

Larry
 
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I get your point, but why would i hone a 7/8 down to 5/8? I look at it this way, the blade on my W&B is 7/8 and is basically a block of cheese. If you use a cheese grater on a block of cheese and have it totally flat on it, you will great the entire block with each push in the grater. But if you lift the rear slightly you will grate only a bit of the point of the cheese and create a bevel. We can discuss all day about weather to use tape or not, but on a true wedge you have to beef the rear slightly with electrical tape to hone correctly or else you will be honing the entire width of the razor which will never cut anything except used as a letter opener. There are plenty of wedge blades on the bay where you see a wide swath of hone wear at the spine and towards the edge and the reason is the rear was never lifted slightly to hone and create a bevel. On a regular full hollow blade I don't tape, I'm not taking off that much material or honing with that much pressure to visually make a difference in how the razor looks or functions and a perfect bevel is made almost automatically. I also don't hone on synthetics which cut fast, I use Coticules and Arks. I use films when i get a new blade AFTER honing on a Coti or Ark dosen't give me a result in the end...then the films come out, I start from scratch, make a new polished clean bevel and work my way up...then from then on its Coti and Ark for that blade for the rest of its life. I start out with minimum first, if minimum dosen't work, I go for more material removal.

Larry
You wouldn't hone it down to 5/8, I was just using that was just an illustration since you made a reference to the spine and edge having to wear together. Hypothetically, If you honed a razor down that much over years of heavy use and honing with the spine taped then you would end up with a bevel angle that was too obtuse. A significant amount of wear has to occur in the edge for the tape to be a problem.

Yeah, some of those older razors are on their way to becoming true wedges from all the hone wear. If the bevel angle is good they will still shave, it just looks really bad. I hone with and without tape depending on the razor. I've never argued for doing it one way exclusively. If the bevel angle is good and it shaves great that is the important thing.

I like naturals, but none of mine are good for bevel setting so I use synthetics to start out with. I want to get a good progression of Arks eventually.
 
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You wouldn't hone it down to 5/8, I was just using that was just an illustration since you made a reference to the spine and edge having to wear together. Hypothetically, If you honed a razor down that much over years of heavy use and honing with the spine taped then you would end up with a bevel angle that was too obtuse. A significant amount of wear has to occur in the edge for the tape to be a problem.

Yeah, some of those older razors are on their way to becoming true wedges from all the hone wear. If the bevel angle is good they will still shave, it just looks really bad. I hone with and without tape depending on the razor. I've never argued for doing it one way exclusively. If the bevel angle is good and it shaves great that is the important thing.

I like naturals, but none of mine are good for bevel setting so I use synthetics to start out with. I want to get a good progression of Arks eventually.

LOL all good, but if I honed my 7/8 wedge to a 5/8 I'd either be old, honed it like I was king kong on the stones or decided to be nuts and use my bench grinder. All points aside yes the angle would be obtuse if tape was used for quite a long time, its one of the drawbacks. But most of us rely on more then just 1 razor so we hone a lot less that say a person with only 1 blade did back in the day. If I bevel set I use films, its cheap and effective then I hit the cotis and arks for a polised edge. Film edges are effective I just find it a bit harsh for my face. I love the feel on a natural stone and feedback, plus i can see the displacement of water or oil easily as hone my blades. Naturals are not for everyone but they so much because of the challenge to get that perfect edge. Pastes work well, my biggest issue is knowing when you have enough on the leather and when to add more.

Larry
 
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