A look at the crumb before they become a ham and Swiss sandwich.
Tartine Bread
- Thread starter Sullybob
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Amazing Bob. I would love to see you make some real deal pumpernickel. Please.
I will get there, but true pumpernickel is a pretty involved process.
I know that the supermarket stuff is not real...more like colored rye or something.
Yup. I have two recipes. One that is more like the old deli pumpernickels, which are deli rye types that have very dark caramel coloring (the recipe I have tells you how to make this stuff). I think that's what we're both used to.
The real stuff is actually simple. Take coarse rye meal (kind of a first pass of the rye berries through the grist mill), mix with salt and water, ferment with no yeast or starter overnight, give it a whirl in the mixer for about 10 minutes, and transfer to a Pullman loaf pan to bake at 225 for 24 hours. This is the square German and Scandinavian black bread that you've probably seen.
The real stuff is actually simple. Take coarse rye meal (kind of a first pass of the rye berries through the grist mill), mix with salt and water, ferment with no yeast or starter overnight, give it a whirl in the mixer for about 10 minutes, and transfer to a Pullman loaf pan to bake at 225 for 24 hours. This is the square German and Scandinavian black bread that you've probably seen.
I knew you would know what's right.
I had an interesting experience today. I was making a 50% whole wheat loaf following the Forkish method. I pre-fermented the white flour overnight as a poolish, and used freshly milled whole wheat flour that I got from a colleague at work. I followed the exact same process I always do, and the resulting mix had the consistency of a batter. It had no body whatsoever. I had to add in some additional white flour to provide enough gluten to make a dough.
It’s a wild card whenever you use freshly milled flour because you don’t know the protein/gluten content. The King Arthur and Pillsbury’s of the world test and adjust to ensure consistency from batch to batch. Today’s loaf was a lesson in this.
It still came out great, though.
Really good. Even though it was 40+% whole wheat, the flavor was much more mild than when using the store bought flour.
Posting almost a year since the last one. I continue to bake almost weekly with a couple of lessons learned for me:
1. I don't have the time to devote to establishing a sourdough culture and actually maintaining it consistently.
3. Yeast-leavened loaves made with your own hands taste worlds better than anything you can get from the bakery section in the store, and better than most bakeries.
4. Using yeast, you can play with all sorts of conditions and get really great, unique breads (Same day bakes, overnight rises, preferments, extended rises in the fridge).
5. You get great, unique-tasting breads by playing around with blends of different flours (white, whole wheat, spelt, einkorn, rye).
In hindsight, learning to do this kind of baking is a lot like shaving. Using yeast is like learning a DE, you pick it up pretty quickly and the combinations are endless. Using sourdough is like picking up a straight, be prepared for a learning curve. In the end, if time is limited, a yeast bread will get you a very good product reliably, just like your DE will. You will have a greater feeling of accomplishment, though, baking with sourdough, just like you will putting the straight down on the sink and luxuriating in a BBS.
1. I don't have the time to devote to establishing a sourdough culture and actually maintaining it consistently.
a. That means virtually no Tartine recipes, which almost all rely exclusively on natural leaven
b. That means few true rye breads, which need sourdough to keep the structures of high percentage rye loaves from turning into glutinous masses.
2. I don't really care.b. That means few true rye breads, which need sourdough to keep the structures of high percentage rye loaves from turning into glutinous masses.
3. Yeast-leavened loaves made with your own hands taste worlds better than anything you can get from the bakery section in the store, and better than most bakeries.
4. Using yeast, you can play with all sorts of conditions and get really great, unique breads (Same day bakes, overnight rises, preferments, extended rises in the fridge).
5. You get great, unique-tasting breads by playing around with blends of different flours (white, whole wheat, spelt, einkorn, rye).
a. Loaves with spelt flour taste great.
6. When doing the Forkish, Lahey and Robertson (Tartine) methods, don't be afraid to give the dough an extra stretch&fold....you'll enjoy the better rise and crumb from the loaf worked a little longer.In hindsight, learning to do this kind of baking is a lot like shaving. Using yeast is like learning a DE, you pick it up pretty quickly and the combinations are endless. Using sourdough is like picking up a straight, be prepared for a learning curve. In the end, if time is limited, a yeast bread will get you a very good product reliably, just like your DE will. You will have a greater feeling of accomplishment, though, baking with sourdough, just like you will putting the straight down on the sink and luxuriating in a BBS.
Excellent insights!
It's all about joy.
It's all about joy.
@beginish -
When you say you don’t have time to devote to a sourdough culture, what do you mean? I’ve never done it but want too. Reading about the process seems like it does not take much once started. Am I wrong?
Also, I read about drying it and then reconstituting when needed, was this not true?
When you say you don’t have time to devote to a sourdough culture, what do you mean? I’ve never done it but want too. Reading about the process seems like it does not take much once started. Am I wrong?
Also, I read about drying it and then reconstituting when needed, was this not true?
The drying/reconstituting is supposed to be just as involved as starting from scratch.
For my life right now, there are too many time pressures and distractions to reliably feed a culture to start one from scratch or maintain one.
You can take an established culture and put it into long term storage and bring it out again after several months. Personally, I’d just buy one from King Arthur to start a new one. I’d be baking with it in less than 10 days.
Not sure we have a general baking thread. Amish Bread.
That’s a great looking loaf. What’s in it?
Activated dry yeast with water and sugar, artisan flour, little bit of oil, and salt. Results in just basic white bread. Probably not the best for the round shape, but we don't have loaf pans. Came out pretty well. I think it needed some more time as it is fairly moist and delicate.
So far its made a damn good sandwich.
So far its made a damn good sandwich.
The loaves I make that disappear fastest are white loaves. There is something immensely satisfying about a piece of white toast and butter made with these breads.
After many years at this, I finally pulled off the near perfect loaf. Using a combination of the Tartine method, fresh local Red Fife whole wheat flour, and an incredibly active starter, I achieved this:
It’s a 70% whole wheat loaf, fully leavened with sourdough starter. The components were important, but I think that really following the involved loaf shaping process really produced the surface tension to help the loaf hold its shape in the Dutch oven. With that, oven spring could only go up. What a feeling of accomplishment, and it tastes great too.
It’s a 70% whole wheat loaf, fully leavened with sourdough starter. The components were important, but I think that really following the involved loaf shaping process really produced the surface tension to help the loaf hold its shape in the Dutch oven. With that, oven spring could only go up. What a feeling of accomplishment, and it tastes great too.
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- #460
What a great looking loaf Bob! Getting a 70% whole wheat dough to rise without any commercial yeast is not easy.
I've been baking from Ken Forkish's book for a year or so, using my own starter. His loaves with a mix of whole wheat and white flour are tasty and easy to make with his detailed directions. After visiting Tartine bakery in San Frisco twice and buying both the country boule and the whole wheat boule, I've been trying to recreate the flavors of Tartine's whole wheat boule. It is probably the best bread I've ever eaten.
I've been baking from Ken Forkish's book for a year or so, using my own starter. His loaves with a mix of whole wheat and white flour are tasty and easy to make with his detailed directions. After visiting Tartine bakery in San Frisco twice and buying both the country boule and the whole wheat boule, I've been trying to recreate the flavors of Tartine's whole wheat boule. It is probably the best bread I've ever eaten.
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