Taming a Razor that Doesn't Want to Behave.

[5whiskey]

The title says it all. Anyone here have a razor that, for whatever reason, they just want to make it shave well but the razor doesn't want to cooperate? I have a Frederick Reynolds near wedge that I really want to like for a number of reasons. Given it has horn scales, is a near wedge, and was obviously manufactured before the McKinley Tariff Act, my guess of it's age puts me in the mid-1800's. Possibly a touch later, like the 1870s, but it's still obviously the oldest razor I currently have by at least a couple decades. Plus horn scales are cool. And near wedges are cool. Just lots of reasons why I really want to like this razor and have it be a shaver.

Alas, I have honed, stropped, shaved (sort of), and just fooled around with this razor for a while. I did FFFMM with it and I started getting tired of it. Sure I talked it up a little in the FFFMM thread, mostly to soothe my hurt pride. It would get sharp enough to shave, but just barely and not very smooth despite a number of laps on a black arkansas stone. Then a smooth canvas strop with some CROX. Then to leather for 70-80 passes. Then repeat the process all over again because I'm not satisfied. I tried one piece of tape on the spine, then two. This razor has gotten under my skin as I want to like it, but at best I've gotten mediocre shaves that take buffing and effort to get to better than socially acceptable.

Just then, the other night I brought it back out and once again was disappointed. I started to put it back away, but decided to try a 300 more laps on the black Ark. Then 50 laps on the canvas strop (very light pressure), then 100 laps on leather. The first shave after was better, but not anywhere near my best razor. Some more laps on leather and my 2nd shave was...... NOT BAD! I can now get it to tree top hair, and it's much smoother to boot. I can get a DFS without buffing, and BBS is obtainable in easy areas without irritation. I'm by no means a professional honer, and this is my only wedge. My only thought is it's very hard steel and I've finally accumulated enough laps on the black Ark to smooth it out (probably have 700 laps on a black Ark since it last touched a different stone). I've read several times here that FRs are a bear to hone. I can attest to that, but I think I've finally tamed this one. Anyone else had a similar experience?

 

[Eastcoast30]

I hear you. I have a kamisori razor that I am trying to tame. Just seems to tug, although it was sold as shave ready. Finally, using a sharpie I saw that the geometry just was not there. No amount of laps on a Shapton 1K would catch the entire edge. I finally started a progression with wet/dry paper from 220 to 600. I just got the geometry right and am on the wy to setting the bevel. I'm hoping this will work. A big part of honing these vintage razors is fixing the mistakes that the previous ham-fisted owners made.

 

[rbscebu]

.... A big part of honing these vintage razors is fixing the mistakes that the previous ham-fisted owners made.

Now you have me worried. I pick up my first vintage (antique about 1870) SR today. A sharpie pen test will probably be first.

 

[haggis]

I *am* a ham-fisted owner, busy making tomorrow's fleabay bargains. Thank me later.

 

[rbscebu]

I *am* a ham-fisted owner, busy making tomorrow's fleabay bargains. Thank me later.

I'd like to put in an order for 7 matching Filarmonica 14 SR's in mint condition. Willing to pay up to USD 1k for the lot. PM when you are ready to list (buy now only thank you).

 

[haggis]

I'm still waiting for a pristine 14. I'll be sure to give you a heads up after I've found and thrashed one.

 

[Herrenberg]

A big part of honing these vintage razors is fixing the mistakes that the previous ham-fisted owners made.

Truth. That is exactly it. I want to shout at the previous honers. Didn't you notice that you are wearing down the toe on one side, and the heel on the other, consistently, for years?

 

[Herrenberg]

Now you have me worried. I pick up my first vintage (antique about 1870) SR today. A sharpie pen test will probably be first.

Oh, no, it's all part of the fun. Yes, there is some grumbling involved. But it's mostly fun to solve these problems.

 

[Herrenberg]

It would get sharp enough to shave, but just barely and not very smooth despite a number of laps on a black arkansas stone. Then a smooth canvas strop with some CROX. Then to leather for 70-80 passes. Then repeat the process all over again because I'm not satisfied. I tried one piece of tape on the spine, then two. This razor has gotten under my skin as I want to like it, but at best I've gotten mediocre shaves that take buffing and effort to get to better than socially acceptable.

I hope I'm not pointing out the obvious, but it really seems as though you need to make a fresh bevel on that razor, starting with something like 1000 grit.

 

[5whiskey]

I hope I'm not pointing out the obvious, but it really seems as though you need to make a fresh bevel on that razor, starting with something like 1000 grit.

Oh I did when I first worked on it. When I got it the thing wouldn't cut tissue paper if you sawed on it. It was pretty rough. Spent a long time on a 220 bench hone that I bevel set wood chisels with... I made sure to flatten it first. Which is actually probably my problem. I may not have spent enough time at each step of my progression and didn't smooth the edge enough. I do not have a loupe, and I do realize I should probably invest in one. Despite spending what felt a VERY long time on a soft and then hard arkansas after the course hone, I'm now beginning to realize it wasn't long enough.

Doing a progression with Arkansas stones and a course bench hone really is a labor of love. It takes a long time to smooth things out. I need something better for bevel set, and a few more years honing to boot. I do get great edges out of my Arks though, despite my lack of experience. Well, I get great edges most of the time.

I can attest that a FR near wedge is not very easy to hone. I've brought a few razors back so far, and this one was the most difficult by far.

 

[camoloc]

have no experience with wedges but I'd imagine the conventional wisdom applies.

if the bevel set is not spot on........doesnt matter what magical stone or material progressions follow. that was one of my earliest honing epiphanies......that changed everything in my world.

camo

 

[LJS]

+1 on the fact that the bevel sounds like it really wasn’t set. Wedge blades can be tough to reach that very edge. Glad you got some improvement on it though.

 

[totorlekiller]

The bevel might be fine in most area of the blade or even most of it, and that is still not good enough. When things do not work out, my experience is that it is always cutting corner at the bevel stage. On near wedge, it can take a really long time for some reason and I have often have had to add layers of tape to speed up the process.

 

[Eastcoast30]

Someone here said something like honing without a good bevel is like putting makeup on a pig.

 

[Eastcoast30]

I'd like to put in an order for 7 matching Filarmonica 14 SR's in mint condition. Willing to pay up to USD 1k for the lot. PM when you are ready to list (buy now only thank you).

I can sell you a set of seven pristine Filarmonicas 14s for $1,000 USD. Right now they are on backorder, but send in your order and I will ship as soon as they come in.

 

[rbscebu]

I can sell you a set of seven pristine Filarmonicas 14s for $1,000 USD. Right now they are on backorder, but send in your order and I will ship as soon as they come in.

The cheque is in the mail! It should arrive about the same time as you get them in.

 

[Gamma]

Freddie R's are not known to be extra hard, on the contrary, they're usually on the softer side of things.
And that can cause a hurdle when attempting to bring an edge to super-keen levels.

I've had, literally - dozens of Freddie Rs... the steel being a hair softer than I'd expect has been par for the course. Lummus referenced this in one of his articles actually. Still, all the FRs I've had shaved very well. Some took way longer than others to get 'done'.

Bevel angle has to be confirmed across the blade. Those old warbirds may have seen tons of use and abuse. If you're looking at 20+ degrees across the blade, it'll be hard to get 'that edge' without geometry correction.
If you are way under 17 degrees, the steel might not be holding the edge. Takes a while, sometimes, to dope out what the blade can and can't do.

If the blade is smiling - most of them are - then it takes exponentially longer to get each stage 'there' because a rolling stroke only has part of the blade on the stone at any one time. With an extreme roll, 5-8x 'passes' to equal one non-rolling stroke is not out of the question. And that's for all stages.
Most lack of sharpness/smoothness starts with a less than on-point bevel. No one ever wants to hear their bevel isn't up to snuff but that's just how it is and if that bevel is taking 5-8 times longer to get done that imagined, well, it's easy to see how these things start to snowball.

The other thing is micropitting - old heavy grinds have been sitting in boxes in attics and basements for centuries, hot/cold, humid/dry, etc - you wind up with swiss-cheese steel. Gotta cut through it - all the way through it - until you hit pristine clear steel.

This is how wedges get a bad rep, it can take, seemingly forever, to get the grunt work done. A full hollow with that much micropitting will be toast, no one will touch it. But a wedgey grind has a ton of meat and if/when you invest the time you can get through the grief to get a serviceable edge. Once done, it's done and that's that and future hone work goes easy. But the start up work can be a bear due to age, mistreatment, etc.

Long ago - I had an GR Wade & Butcher that took like two hours to set the bevel. Might have taken longer actually. I remember hating that blade for a long time... I had to back bevel it first and then go to town to get past the Finlandia.
Whenever I have a trouble blade (often) I remember what it took to get that W&B into fighting shape.

Moral of the story is...it's not so much that a blade isn't behaving, it's just that all of the parts of the puzzle haven't been sorted out yet.

 

[Rusty Blade]

I agree with others -- the issue is likely your bevel was not set properly. If not set properly -- and by that I mean perfectly --then nothing that follows in terms of stones or stropping will make much difference.