Tallow Vs. Lanolin

[Kentb]

Is tallow the magic ingredient that gets the thick creamy lather in certain shaving soaps? I seem to get the best lather from Tabac and a few other soaps and I believe that those particular soaps are tallow based. These pucks seem to last a long time too.

I might be considered a blasphemer for saying this, but I am not impressed with Mitchells Wool Fat. I just don't get the same great lather from MWF. When I first got my puck of MWF a couple months ago and started twirling my brush in it, the bubbles just "exploded" out of the puck! However, once I put it on my face, and before I was half finished with my shave, all the bubbles in the lather had popped and the lather had just disappeared. Too much water? I had noticed that the bubbles in the lather itself were bigger than those of other shave soaps; kind of like dish soap bubbles. I tried using less water in the brush and I had better results, but still not as good as Tabac. Of course, MWF is famous for being "the" lanolin-based soap. Is that what makes its lather different?

 

[Funkadelic]

Dont own any Tabac(yet) but I sure did get a close shave with the MWF that I bought today. Nice smooth skin afterwards. I hope this helps my razor bumps go away.

 

[Kentb]

Tabac produces the best lather of any soap I have ever tried. It's a favorite of many people on this forum, but it has an old "barbershop" scent that some aren't too fond of. Personally, I like it. You aught to try it. I'm not sure if it will bother your razor bumps.

 

[eyebright]

I think it's important to clarify that the choice is not between a lanolin "based" soap vs. tallow because lanolin is only an additive, not a base oil. Either tallow soap or a purely vegetable oil based soap can have lanolin as an ingredient. The amount of lanolin in even a famous "lanolin" soap like MWF is miniscule because you don't need very much to make a difference.

 

[Marco]

Making a quality shave soap is not an easy task. There are many factors to keep in mind and the ingredients list is only one of them. We have to take in consideration the proportions of the ingredients, how they are worked and "cooked", the quality of the water, the temperature, etc. ect. My opinion is that there are no magic ingredients and tallow tends to be highly overrated. Pretty much the same about lanolin. Two of my all-time favourite soaps lather up beautifully, give an extremely stable, slick and cushioning lather and simply work great. They have no tallow and no lanolin. My friends here on B&B already know which shaving soaps I'm talking about: Martin de Candre and La Toja. As always IMHO.

 

[jwilock]

Tabac produces the best lather of any soap I have ever tried. It's a favorite of many people on this forum, but it has an old "barbershop" scent that some aren't too fond of. Personally, I like it. You ought to try it. I'm not sure if it will bother your razor bumps.

I have no idea why they stopped making irisch Moos - same producct as Tabac but with a really nice scent. Luckily I was able to pick up a stick. You might keep an eye on BST where IM will show up occasionally. It would be the perfect solution to your dilemma.

 

[bosseb]

This question of which soap is best is one that seems to be eternal. I just like to add my 2 cents to this discussion.
The quality and suitability of the lather for a good shave is mostly dependant on how the lather is made and IMHO only remotely connected to the product itself. With a good technique and application almost any soap will work. The exception would be allergic reactions. My opinion is that the safest way to a good lather is to buy one of the known (here on B&B) soaps and a known brush (any of them). Then practice by palmlathering a lot. If you lather in the palm you can feel the lather building. Don't be afraid to add more water and more product!
If you think too much or take too much interest in the products you might end up like I did :

​

And that would perhaps not be where you would want to be, would it?

Watch out for the continuation of my PIFs!

 

[Dipesh]

Making a quality shave soap is not an easy task. There are many factors to keep in mind and the ingredients list is only one of them. We have to take in consideration the proportions of the ingredients, how they are worked and "cooked", the quality of the water, the temperature, etc. ect. My opinion is that there are no magic ingredients and tallow tends to be highly overrated. Pretty much the same about lanolin. Two of my all-time favourite soaps lather up beautifully, give an extremely stable, slick and cushioning lather and simply work great. They have no tallow and no lanolin. My friends here on B&B already know which shaving soaps I'm talking about: Martin de Candre and La Toja. As always IMHO.

I couldn't agree more with this. It should be a case of good soap and bad soap. Not tallow vs non tallow.

 

[Kentb]

I couldn't agree more with this. It should be a case of good soap and bad soap. Not tallow vs non tallow.

That would make sense. Thanks all for the advice. Although, I fear that I will end up with a collection of shaving paraphenelia like what can be seen in Bosseb's pictures above (although, my family is probably considering an intervention!)

 

[mretzloff]

Because tallow is a base oil and can be saponified, it, unlike lanolin, can make a difference, but only a marginally small one. Tallow is extremely overrated. The talk should be good vs. bad soaps. Very, very few people would ever be able to detect a difference between a good tallow soap and a good vegetable soap. The fact that an overwhelming majority of the best soaps contain tallow is nothing more than a coincidence.

I think it's important to clarify that the choice is not between a lanolin "based" soap vs. tallow because lanolin is only an additive, not a base oil. Either tallow soap or a purely vegetable oil based soap can have lanolin as an ingredient. The amount of lanolin in even a famous "lanolin" soap like MWF is miniscule because you don't need very much to make a difference.

I think lanolin has turned into a very effective sugar pill. The amount of lanolin in any soap, as you mentioned, is small.

 

[TallyShave]

Very, very few people would ever be able to detect a difference between a good tallow soap and a good vegetable soap.

I completely agree, although when I made this statement in the AOS reformulation thread several self-appointed soap experts felt otherwise.

 

[brucered]

^ agreed.

I own tallow and veggies soaps and couldn't tell you which is which, unless I looked at the ingredients.

If it works well and my face agrees, I use it.

 

[Price]

Most of the soaps I've kept around are tallow-based. I'm also a well-known MdC junkie. I try to evaluate based simply on the quality of the lather and the shave experience - for me. I will take others' opinions onboard when weighing a purchase, but by now I've pretty much determined what I like and what works for me, and that's where my money goes...tallow or not.

 

[mretzloff]

I completely agree, although when I made this statement in the AOS reformulation thread several self-appointed soap experts felt otherwise.

The problem is that companies screw up their reformulations. That is their fault, not the fault of the new oils. If a company substitutes palm oil for tallow, the soap should perform very similarly, if not the same.

 

[lu20vt]

Making a quality shave soap is not an easy task. There are many factors to keep in mind and the ingredients list is only one of them. We have to take in consideration the proportions of the ingredients, how they are worked and "cooked", the quality of the water, the temperature, etc. ect. My opinion is that there are no magic ingredients and tallow tends to be highly overrated. Pretty much the same about lanolin. Two of my all-time favourite soaps lather up beautifully, give an extremely stable, slick and cushioning lather and simply work great. They have no tallow and no lanolin. My friends here on B&B already know which shaving soaps I'm talking about: Martin de Candre and La Toja. As always IMHO.

1

The tallow is no magic, really magic is in mixing quality ingredients, this is my opinion.

 

[TBoner]

I agree that tallow is not magic. I also concur with the notion that lanolin is a nice sugar pill. I would love to find a good artisan shave soap without it, as it irritates my skin in small quantities and really does little for good lather IMO. I think many guys like the way their skin feels afterward, but a well-made soap won't dry your skin anyway, so for me, lanolin is a non-starter.

Coincidentally or not, though, every shave soap I have around is tallow-based.

 

[brucered]

I agree that tallow is not magic. I also concur with the notion that lanolin is a nice sugar pill. I would love to find a good artisan shave soap without it, as it irritates my skin in small quantities and really does little for good lather IMO. I think many guys like the way their skin feels afterward, but a well-made soap won't dry your skin anyway, so for me, lanolin is a non-starter.

Coincidentally or not, though, every shave soap I have around is tallow-based.

i've cut out lanolin for that reason, as well as our youngest has very sensitive skin and likes to mock shave. if it's in my den, i want it to be family friendly. so no lanolin in my den.

luckily there are tons of great products out there that do not use it.

 

[bemiller]

the bubbles just "exploded" out of the puck! However, once I put it on my face, and before I was half finished with my shave, all the bubbles in the lather had popped and the lather had just disappeared. Too much water? I had noticed that the bubbles in the lather itself were bigger than those of other shave soaps; kind of like dish soap bubbles. I tried using less water in the brush and I had better results, but still not as good as Tabac. Of course, MWF is famous for being "the" lanolin-based soap. Is that what makes its lather different?

Question, and I'm unsure why no one else has commented on this. Why are there bubbles in your lather? And why are you using bubble size as a gauge of lather quality? Sounds like you completely under-lathered imo. I use MWF often, and certainly if I had bubbles in the lather I would not be putting it on my face until it was better lathered. Just curious what brush you are using for this?

 

[Kentb]

Why are there bubbles in your lather? And why are you using bubble size as a gauge of lather quality? Sounds like you completely under-lathered imo. I use MWF often, and certainly if I had bubbles in the lather I would not be putting it on my face until it was better lathered. Just curious what brush you are using for this?

I was getting bubbles because that's what happened when I twirled my brush around on the soap as I would with any of the other soaps I've been using. I have a few different brushes and the same thing happens with all of them and the Mitchells. Mostly I use a Frank's Shaving silver badger brush. Or a Lijun finest badger. My other soaps mostly get nice, creamy lather (like cool whip) and that has been great. When I got bubbles off the MWF, I thought, "That's different!" I used what I produced thinking that I was either doing something wrong or this soap was just over-rated. With the rep that MWF has, I was suspecting that it might be the former. Do you find MWF as easy to get good lather off MWF as other soaps? Could I simply have a bad puck? Seems unlikely, but I'm still a newb.

 

[brucered]

too many bubbles, usually means you haven't worked the lather long enough or have too much water.

MWF is notorious for taking a bit more work to lather, but it products thick and creamy lather one you have it dialed in.

I'm not one to believe there are "bad pucks". Soaps are made in giant batches and if it was bad, they would likely all be bad.