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SV longevity test part 1

Dear sir, i am sure if one tries, he can manage to put 3g in a bowl. What he does with it, is another story! :laugh:

SV isn't luxury. MdC costs almost the double. It's simply in the upper part of the price spectrum. AdP and MdC are the real luxury products. And you don't count shaves when you pay luxury. It is like buying a Ferrari and then worrying about how much gas you consumed for a ride. :lol1:

I don't think MdC is any better than SV, I wouldn't even rate it the best around, and it certainly no Boellis, AdP or SMF for cost.

As for gas for the Ferrari or Lambo? I don't have those problems! 😜
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
You are correct on some things and very wrong on others.

Cosmetic makers introduce new lines to increase prices no doubt, restaurants introduce new menus for the same reason.

As a computer hobbyist that used to build computers, one always bought the most CPU and RAM that one could afford, not because you needed them now but because more CPU/RAM extended the useful life of the computer, sometimes by 2 years or more. You didn’t mention this.

MdC actually has two ‘conditioners’, glycerin as you noted, but you forgot the coconut oil superfat. MdC also sell citron scented coconut oil as an after shave product.

You’re also assuming that a similar ingredients list produces a similar product, again without trying different products. This is not true in my experience and also see post #16. The quality of ingredients and the manufacturing process also make a difference, but you did not mention these. It’s almost like you assumed that all ingredients are of the same quality and all manufacturing is the same.

You also seem to be assuming that the initial price of a soap is the only consideration. It is not. A better way to look at it, budgets notwithstanding, is how much does a soap cost to shave with for a year? You’ll find, if you try it, that you can likey shave for a year or more with $50 worth of MdC. @Marty M shaved for almost two years with a jar of MdC and a Wee Scott. The same cannot be said of many other soaps luxury or otherwise. Whether you like MdC or not is another thing, and I consider it an upper mid-tier soap not a luxury soap.

Most people on shaving forums will give you an honest opinion. That does not make it a true or valuable opinion. For example, if you ask ‘what’s the best soap’, and there are HUNDREDS of these theeads, people who are starting out and have only used three staple soaps will tell you which one they think is the best of the three, but they usually will not tell you that they’ve only tried three soaps. It will not tell you much about which of all or many soaps are good, but it is an honest opinion. There are many people that won’t pay more than ‘X’ for a soap, which is a perfectly reasonable limitation. So they will tell you the best soaps under ‘X’ that they’ve tried but not that they have this limit. Again an honest opinion. This is why when you ask ’what soap is the best?’ you get ‘everything‘ which is not particularly useful.

The judgement and opinions of people with a wide range of experience are usually worth more than those of people with limited experience. I understand respect for a dollar (or euro or pound), but experience is an education, and educations, whether poker or college, generally require an investment.
 
You are correct on some things and very wrong on others.

Cosmetic makers introduce new lines to increase prices no doubt, restaurants introduce new menus for the same reason.

As a computer hobbyist that used to build computers, one always bought the most CPU and RAM that one could afford, not because you needed them now but because more CPU/RAM extended the useful life of the computer, sometimes by 2 years or more. You didn’t mention this.

As a computer hobbyist that still build my own computers, i beg to disagree. If you visit any computer forum, 99% of the people do it because they are gamers. With the odd gentleman who is doing extreme photoshop, video encoding [email protected] or Boinc. And the reason was "longevity" on paper, only games wouldn't use those extra, slow cores. A faster 6 core was more useful than a slower 8 core. Only in recent years 8 cores made more sense for gamers. But people bought the "top of the line" for, as Americans said, "bragging rights". And then of course, they would upgrade, together with those who had bought 6 cores, because the new games didn't really bother about 8 cores yet, but they cared about more frequency. Of course the final blow came when AMD brought out cheap 8 cores at a fraction of the price... The "right" CPU is the one software developers work on. The rest, is better spent on GPU and RAM. Not on the most expensive CPU.

MdC actually has two ‘conditioners’, glycerin as you noted, but you forgot the coconut oil superfat. MdC also sell citron scented coconut oil as an after shave product.

You’re also assuming that a similar ingredients list produces a similar product, again without trying different products. This is not true in my experience and also see post #16. The quality of ingredients and the manufacturing process also make a difference, but you did not mention these. It’s almost like you assumed that all ingredients are of the same quality and all manufacturing is the same.

You also seem to be assuming that the initial price of a soap is the only consideration. It is not. A better way to look at it, budgets notwithstanding, is how much does a soap cost to shave with for a year? You’ll find, if you try it, that you can likey shave for a year or more with $50 worth of MdC. @Marty M shaved for almost two years with a jar of MdC and a Wee Scott. The same cannot be said of many other soaps luxury or otherwise. Whether you like MdC or not is another thing, and I consider it an upper mid-tier soap not a luxury soap.

Most people on shaving forums will give you an honest opinion. That does not make it a true or valuable opinion. For example, if you ask ‘what’s the best soap’, and there are HUNDREDS of these theeads, people who are starting out and have only used three staple soaps will tell you which one they think is the best of the three, but they usually will not tell you that they’ve only tried three soaps. It will not tell you much about which of all or many soaps are good, but it is an honest opinion. There are many people that won’t pay more than ‘X’ for a soap, which is a perfectly reasonable limitation. So they will tell you the best soaps under ‘X’ that they’ve tried but not that they have this limit. Again an honest opinion. This is why when you ask ’what soap is the best?’ you get ‘everything‘ which is not particularly useful.

The judgement and opinions of people with a wide range of experience are usually worth more than those of people with limited experience. I understand respect for a dollar (or euro or pound), but experience is an education, and educations, whether poker or college, generally require an investment.

I have read the opinion of the creator of Nuavia soap on MdC. It is completely saponified, not superfatted and it seems pressed (not just cured). He also said, that what you gain in slickness in a soap, you will lose in post shave hydration , so it is a game of balance. MdC was very slick, because it was extremely saponified. And why it was drying for some. That was his opinion. He has an italian forum, you see. Coconut oil, is almost in any soap. Even in €1 soaps.

Dear sir, i may be blessed to be born under the African sun, but i can't discern the subtle differences in soaps some other gentlemen can. I consider it both a fortune and a misfortune. For instance, if i make Proraso thick, i don't see the difference from Lea or Haslinger. I didn't see what was special in TOBS or Truefitt either, aside the scent.

A proverb says: "Clever men learn from their own faults, wise men learn from others". If i were to take as granted everything i read in a shavign forum, by now i should have 100 Simpsons, 100 Palandins, 100 Declaration Groomings and so one. I can show you other gentlemen that have passed much less time with a jar of MdC. What gives?

I will tell you an explanation. These are images i just took from youtube, from different youtube celebrities:

a1.png

a5.png

s1.png


- You think they consume the same amount of soap?
- You think they will evaluate the same soap at the same way?
- You think they will have the same irritation afterwards?
- You think they will complain about the "postshave" at the same way?
- Do you think that all NEED a better soap?

* The 3rd gentleman, might actually be able to use 3g per shave. In other videos he uses a much more dense lather.

Some things, aren't a matter of money. It is also a matter of skin and...skill, if you allow me the joke. Ask professional italian famous barbers (there are still some) what they use on their customers. Not MdC. Do you know how much they charge? 30-50 euros. As much as a jar or MdC. And the customers leave content. Why? Certainly, especially the 2 gentlemen in the 1st 2 photos, need all the help they can get from the best soap! And i am not sure it will suffice... The 3rd one, has a fondness for "cement"-like lather. I don't know what he feels either. I took the most flattering lather i could.

But such is the way of men...and of wetshaving. No man has the same skin, skill, sensitivity, capacity to feel or to appreciate what he bought. Not the same needs either. The problem with "experience", is that it is so personal. My lather doesn't look like any of those 3 famous gentlemen. They have used more gear than all this forum together. To me, they would be of no help. And i am blessed with a very resilient skin. But i don't lather like any of them. And i don't have their razor either.

Happy shaves! YMMV.
 
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There is no way he is using 3gs. Did you see the video I posted of the extreme bowl lathering? Even that is nowhere close to 3g. You couldn't lather 3g of soap without a ton of water and HUGE mixing bowl. It depends a lot on the soap and water, but I've had lathers that thick with around a 0.3g, especially with something like Boellis or MdC.
 
There is no way he is using 3gs. Did you see the video I posted of the extreme bowl lathering? Even that is nowhere close to 3g. You couldn't lather 3g of soap without a ton of water and HUGE mixing bowl. It depends a lot on the soap and water, but I've had lathers that thick with around a 0.3g, especially with something like Boellis or MdC.

Dear sir, no, i don't see any video. I have no idea how one uses 3g per shave, what do i know what one does in his home? The gentleman that says so, is a 3 year old member in that forum. Without having count, myself, i would say i used 1g when using a pour and melt soap like Haslinger. More or less. The gentleman with the "cement"-like lather, i have seen him doing incredible waste of soap, maybe he can consume 3g. But he is a youtube celebrity. Why someone would manage to do that at home, i don't know.
 
There is a similar expression that works well here: Learn to shave on someone else's face.:straight:

This works for computers. Because there is objective data and one component will work exactly the same in any computer, be it in Africa or in Alaska. They even put up videos on youtube to show FPS comparisons in games. So get an idea before you buy.

With shaving it is all YMMV... For instance, i can shave just fine with virtually any blade. I have a few favorites, but i can do with just about any blade. Most people stay with few blade types. I use about 15 types of blades. My favorite won't help someone else pick it as his favorite. I have seen very few soaps that i could tell that this "is missing something". For the rest, i can tell if something lathers easily, but on use, i can all make them work more or less the same. Post shave was never a problem for me either. I just use an aftershave and sometimes a balsam. I have never had a need for "residual slickness" either. I can buff with any soap. Others can't. Others find Proraso extremely lacking.

Others yet, have tried everything and went back to more "mundane" products. Ask Mr. @Marco , which i remember saying that after using all, he now uses some of the classics,Haslinger, La Toja and Ach Brito Mogno, because "as good as anything". This might not be the absolute truth, but they might be now as good as anything, for HIM. Or maybe in the meantime, he got better, so that he doesn't see the difference any more.
 
Haslinger is not a pour and melt, those are glycerin-based soaps like Col Conk. Haslinger is a traditional soap. Also, it was asked of that person to provide the proof, he left the thread after he was challenged on his claim.

I don't think that thick of a lather on the 3rd person isn't necessarily a good shaving lather, it could be too dry. A soap like Valobra, Boellis or GD will make a thick lather like this easily, that is well hydrated and shavable but many lathers that thick are for lather porn and not shavable. If I'm shaving with a straight I'm no going to try anything that thick lol.
 
This works for computers. Because there is objective data and one component will work exactly the same in any computer, be it in Africa or in Alaska. They even put up videos on youtube to show FPS comparisons in games. So get an idea before you buy.

With shaving it is all YMMV... For instance, i can shave just fine with virtually any blade. I have a few favorites, but i can do with just about any blade. Most people stay with few blade types. I use about 15 types of blades. My favorite won't help someone else pick it as his favorite. I have seen very few soaps that i could tell that this "is missing something". For the rest, i can tell if something lathers easily, but on use, i can all make them work more or less the same. Post shave was never a problem for me either. I just use an aftershave and sometimes a balsam. I have never had a need for "residual slickness" either. I can buff with any soap. Others can't. Others find Proraso extremely lacking.

Others yet, have tried everything and went back to more "mundane" products. Ask Mr. @Marco , which i remember saying that after using all, he now uses some of the classics,Haslinger, La Toja and Ach Brito Mogno, because "as good as anything". This might not be the absolute truth, but they might be now as good as anything, for HIM. Or maybe in the meantime, he got better, so that he doesn't see the difference any more.

I'm trying to avoid the sidetrack of PC building because that's where I started in my profession and still do it. Yes, definitely done almost by gamers now, but the issues with memory and GPU availability these days are pretty frustrating. I'm happy I'm not looking to spec out anything for a build right now. I'll wait till the supply chains are back to full, and this crypto mining has died down!
 
Haslinger is not a pour and melt, those are glycerin-based soaps like Col Conk. Haslinger is a traditional soap. Also, it was asked of that person to provide the proof, he left the thread after he was challenged on his claim.

I don't think that thick of a lather on the 3rd person isn't necessarily a good shaving lather, it could be too dry. A soap like Valobra, Boellis or GD will make a thick lather like this easily, that is well hydrated and shavable but many lathers that thick are for lather porn and not shavable. If I'm shaving with a straight I'm no going to try anything that thick lol.

My mistake, i thought they were called pour and melt vs milled. I am not sure i follow. What person was asked for proof? Where? You mean the gentleman who said he uses 3g per shave? What proof could he provide anyway? A series of videos going back in time showing how he eats away the soap? :laugh: There is another gentleman, i posted, who says he consumes 1, max 2g per shave. Still, this is too much, but what do i know of what one does over his sink!

The 3rd lather is amongst his best lathers. He does much denser, but i don't want to offend anyone, so i preferred to take one of his more flattering lathers. He is well known for his heavy lathers.


I'm trying to avoid the sidetrack of PC building because that's where I started in my profession and still do it. Yes, definitely done almost by gamers now, but the issues with memory and GPU availability these days are pretty frustrating. I'm happy I'm not looking to spec out anything for a build right now. I'll wait till the supply chains are back to full, and this crypto mining has died down!

These are bad days to build a PC. I am glad i upgraded when the Ryzen 2600-GTX 1650 Super was new. I am a retro gamer now, of course. But the prices with covid are obscene.
 
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The proof is pretty easy, show the scale before and after the shave, or keep a record of your number of shaves. Those on the 3017 thread are usually very accurate at assessing their use, and 1g of soft soap, with high water content, would be a heavy brush, but those with some of the large, soap hog brushes can accomplish that. I saw one that could polish off a 4oz RazoRock softsoap in around 30 shaves, and that's amazing. I can only imagine how often they have to scrub their sink lol.

Retro is my favourite right now too!
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
I typically get four shaves per gram from a hard soap, and two to three shaves per gram from soft soaps. I generally need about 1ml of cream. With Saponificio Varesino, I would get three to four shaves per gram. I forget what the weight of one of their soaps is, but it's an easy calculation thereafter.

Unfortunately it's not a great soap for me though, and so that makes it exceeding poor value for money, even if I got a full four shaves per gram. I tried a sample recently (moulded into a pewter dish, so it loaded like a regular soap), and I was glad to see the back of it. However Keith @musicman1951 our initial poster, absolutely loves the stuff. I'm sure he'll still think it supremely good value at two (or less) shaves per gram.
 
The proof is pretty easy, show the scale before and after the shave, or keep a record of your number of shaves. Those on the 3017 thread are usually very accurate at assessing their use, and 1g of soft soap, with high water content, would be a heavy brush, but those with some of the large, soap hogs can accomplish that.

The soap after the shave, has more water than before. In addition, digital kitchen scales have +-1 or +-2g tolerance. Mine has +-2, i remember reading the leaflet. So there is problem in that. Keeping a record, is safe, but one can forge this, to defend his previous statement...

The amount of soap, depends very much on various factors, one big being water hardness. I have been to other locations, where the soap would improve visibly, just because it was much softer water than my usual one. Even the size of the face and the brush impacts the amount of soap. Now i am keeping record for the Lea puck out of curiosity, but this was a very hard puck, much harder than Haslinger.
 
The soap after the shave, has more water than before. In addition, digital kitchen scales have +-1 or +-2 tolerance. Mine has +-2, i remember reading the leaflet. So there is problem in that. Keeping a record, is safe, but one can forge this, to defend his previous statement...

The amount of soap, depends very much on various factors, one big being water hardness. I have been to other locations, where the soap would improve visibly, just because it was much softer water than my usual one. Even the size of the face and the brush impacts the amount of soap. Now i am keeping record for the Lea puck out of curiosity, but this was a very hard puck, much harder than Haslinger.

Water is true, I was thinking when dry, but should have specified. Most hard soaps have chelating agents so that really helps, but artisan soft soaps generally do not. Of note here, if you run into hard water try a bit of citric acid as this acts a good chelating agent and many find this really helps.
 
Water is true, I was thinking when dry, but should have specified. Most hard soaps have chelating agents so that really helps, but artisan soft soaps generally do not. Of note here, if you run into hard water try a bit of citric acid as this acts a good chelating agent and many find this really helps.

Ah, dry, yes! I see. Still, the scale tolerance remains a factor. I know the citric acid trick, but by now i am so used that i manage to lather anyway. I just add a bit of glycerin to the lather or use glycerinated preshave. This helps the lather to keep hydration and not dissipate and gives slickness. This might also have an impact on improving soaps. The extra glycerin boosts them.
 
I typically get four shaves per gram from a hard soap, and two to three shaves per gram from soft soaps. I generally need about 1ml of cream. With Saponificio Varesino, I would get three to four shaves per gram. I forget what the weight of one of their soaps is, but it's an easy calculation thereafter.

Unfortunately it's not a great soap for me though, and so that makes it exceeding poor value for money, even if I got a full four shaves per gram. I tried a sample recently (moulded into a pewter dish, so it loaded like a regular soap), and I was glad to see the back of it. However Keith @musicman1951 our initial poster, absolutely loves the stuff. I'm sure he'll still think it supremely good value at two (or less) shaves per gram.
I too absolutely love Opuntia and quite frankly I couldn't care less if it'll give me 35 or 235 shaves per puck. I'm long over 35, just to be clear.

The boxes any soap has to tick in my book are: scent, residual sickness and post shave feel. Price is not one of them.

If it smells great, shaves great and leaves my skin feeling great, it's "priceless" to me.

Life's too short to miss out on the joy of those 15 minutes of zen, each day.

To each his own.
 
I typically get four shaves per gram from a hard soap, and two to three shaves per gram from soft soaps. I generally need about 1ml of cream. With Saponificio Varesino, I would get three to four shaves per gram. I forget what the weight of one of their soaps is, but it's an easy calculation thereafter.

Unfortunately it's not a great soap for me though, and so that makes it exceeding poor value for money, even if I got a full four shaves per gram. I tried a sample recently (moulded into a pewter dish, so it loaded like a regular soap), and I was glad to see the back of it. However Keith @musicman1951 our initial poster, absolutely loves the stuff. I'm sure he'll still think it supremely good value at two (or less) shaves per gram.

So 0.25g for hard soap.
0.33-0.5g for soft soap.
1 ml of cream.

This is certainly much, much better than i get. I can say for sure that i use 2-2.5ml for cream.
 
I too absolutely love Opuntia and quite frankly I couldn't care less if it'll give me 35 or 235 shaves per puck. I'm long over 35, just to be clear.

The boxes any soap has to tick in my book are: scent, residual sickness and post shave feel. Price is not one of them.

If it smells great, shaves great and leaves my skin feeling great, it's "priceless" to me.

Life's too short to miss out on the joy of those 15 minutes of zen, each day.

To each his own.

Oh, he is more of a fan of the Felce:

 
Are you talking soft artisan or hard pucks? There's a huge difference. I load fairly heavily too and soft soaps last around 3 months or so but most hard pucks go around twice that, I find. If we are talking about soaps heavy with non-saponified ingredients (butters and waxes) it can be even less than 3 months for me.
Your probably right there. 3 months is an average. The soft stuff goes faster maybe two months. When used daily the hard stuff gets softer with use. I might get 3-4 months from the really hard stuff. Big brushes loaded heavily.
 
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