Suggestions on Milsurp?

[Gunney]

I am currently thinking about perhaps picking up the shooting sport once again, perhaps in the fall after I start university. (Don't worry, the firearm won't be stored at university! I won't have any room on account of all the fertiliser I have to store... ) However I will probably be looking for something cheap... milsurp certainly fits the bill... However I was wondering if the current Mosins that are on the market are of decent quality. I know a lot of them are from the Ukraine. Whilst they weren't manufactured there, Chernobyl stands testament to the Russia's Ukrainian construction.. lol..

Ultimately I have found a couple milsurps on the market that fit the bill, The Mosin Nagant M91/30 | SKS 7.62x54R, the Yugo M48A | M24/47 8mm Mauser, the Swiss 96/11 | K11 7.5x55

Certainly a good few that are in a lower-end price range. Whilst I realise that some of them like the SKS and suck are up near where you could get a contemporary Remington, I tend to find the old stuff more to my liking... that is of course with the proper butt-pad cover, since metal buttplates hurt!

I also realise that the Mosin isn't as great as the Mauser in terms of accuracy, but the rounds also cost much, much less... granted that the old ammo is corrosive...

Ultimately what I am looking for is something that is accurate (is capable of knocking out the centre of a target at 50m with just iron sights), is capable of killing a buck at 100m, is capable of stopping a black bear at 25m if necessary, and is capable of withstanding punishment that could be expected from hunting (not currently one, but leaving my options open!) Yet I would ideally be looking for something cheapish. Shooting a hole in the savings account is not one of my priorities! Furthermore I am not looking to 'sporterise' aka desecrate it... Neither semi-automatic nor magazine size are not a problem for me, since it isn't going to be used in WWIII...

Any suggestions as to what I should look for?

 

[Kilroy08]

The SKS rifle is a nice utility rifle. I have a couple and love them; however, they are becoming priced too high in comparison to what you are getting for your money. I bought mine back when paying $300 for one was considered highway robbery.

Mosin Nagants are a blast to shoot. In both the literal and figurative sense. I love my M44 carbine, everybody pays attention when I light it off. It's not a tack driver, but accurate enough to defend the eastern front.

Most importantly, apply for a C&R license! This allows you to have eligible firearms shipped directly to you. If it's more than 50 years old or on the curio and relic list, you can receive it direct without having to go through your local gun shop. The first time you use it, the license pays for its self as most shops charge at least $25.00 or more to do a transfer. Also, some shops won't transfer from certain wholesalers.

You fill out ATF forms 5330.20 (Certification of compliance) and 5310.16 (C&R FFL application). The application fee is $30.00. You also have to send a copy of the application to the chief law enforcement officer for your area. When you mail the copy of the application to your head law man, enclose a polite cover letter stating that this is to comply with ATF regulations and if they have any questions feel free to ask, no action is required on their part. If you are unsure who is your chief law enforcement officer, call the local ATF office. I had to, they were more than helpful.

It takes about a month for you to get your license. When you get it, DO NOT SIGN IT!!!!!!. Make copies and put the original in a safe place. Sign the copies in blue ink. Scan one and save it as a jpeg or pdf.

There is record keeping involved, though. You have to maintain a bound book listing date of acquisition, make, model, serial, caliber, and who you received it from.

A fringe benefit is dealer pricing on shooting supplies. Graf & Sons, Midway, Numrich Gun Parts, and Lee precision offer discounts to C&R FFL holders. Century International Arms, Southern Ohio Gun, Samco Global Trades, and Aim Surplus offer C&R eligible firearms for sale.

This is all just off the top of my head, go buy the latest issue of Shotgun News. Email everybody that deals in surplus stuff and attach the scanned copy of your license. Some companies are still kind of stuffy and required you to snail mail a copy of your license despite the ATF saying emailed copies are fine.

Lastly, be sure of your state firearms laws. Some places won't let you receive C&R pistols directly, or there are other restrictions on how you may go about things.

 

[Mick]

The 24/47 mauser is a nice rifle and 8mm mauser is a fine cartridge.

If you can find a 33/40 alpine/mountain mauser (19" barrel) even better

 

[Soldierdan]

I would say to go with the .338 Lapua, just my thoughts though....

 

[Synack]

Everything Kilroy08 said...

The Mosin Nagant M91/30 is a perfect place to start with milsurps. Be warned however, cruffling is a disease that happens very quickly...

Picked up my first M91/30 in December (naturally right when it hits the fan). Then I picked up a Nagant revolver (gotta have the matching officers sidearm, right?) Then I picked up a Tula M91/30 (if the first one was Izveshk you have to have a matching Tula...) And then I got to try a M44... Which led to a Type 53 impulse buy (Gotta have the folding bayonet!)

So yea, since December, 4 milsurps, one spam can, quite a few additional packages of ammo, C&R license and NRA membership to boot... The wife is totally bewildered with the sudden obsession...

Edit... If my enthusiasm isn't enough, here is some eye candy...

 

[Gunney]

Most importantly, apply for a C&R license! This allows you to have eligible firearms shipped directly to you. If it's more than 50 years old or on the curio and relic list, you can receive it direct without having to go through your local gun shop. The first time you use it, the license pays for its self as most shops charge at least $25.00 or more to do a transfer. Also, some shops won't transfer from certain wholesalers.

I don't think I can apply for one, since I am only 18... The government has no problem telling us 'youngins' to go die in a foreign country, but they don't like the idea of us acquiring firearms at home...
--I find the whole matter a bit convoluted...

SoldierDan: Only if you're sending me the ammo! lol.. Lapua is expensive enough to nearly rival .50BMG...

 

[jkingrph]

The two Swiss you mentioned, K 11 and 96/11 are excellent. The Swiss K-31, a bit more common and modern is also a good choice and shoots the same cartridge. Ammo is not the cheapest going, but the GP-11 is probably the highest quality military surplus ammo out there, literally match grade. My next choice in rifles are the Swedish M 96 rifles, including the shortened as we call it the M 38 version. The Yugo 48a is also very good. I have no experience with the SKS, AK 47 or the Mosin types.

 

[mongoose]

Since you are planning for your education the best choice is the M91/30. It may be the last high power plinking rifle that we may ever see with the price of about $100.00 and the ammo is affordable if you don't mind spending the time cleaning it after shooting corrosive surplus ammo.

 

[MrMurphy]

I started out with a No.4 Mk1 Lee-Enfield at your age, currently, Mosins are cheap and reliable with a good history behind them. Just be aware they're not for the recoil-shy.

I love Mausers, but for budgetary reasons I'd get the Mosin first.

The Swiss rifles are outstanding, but the ammo was never cheap even when they were issued, and will never ever be cheap now.

 

[Devilpup]

Around 5 years back I picked up an Russian M44 made in 1943 from an estate auction for $50. Since then I've thrown a synthetic stock on it (at the end of the war the stocks were basically a 2x4 with a steel buttplate) and the thing drives tacks. With the factory sights it will shoot 1" all day long and on occasion .5" at 100 meters. The ammo is cheap, readily available and if you clean the rifle fairly soon after shooting you should have no problems even with the corrosive stuff. Ukranian guns are fine weapons, a couple friends had M44 from there and they work just fine. Not quite as accurate usually 1.5-2" at 100 but so far they've been great.

 

[Gunney]

I started out with a No.4 Mk1 Lee-Enfield at your age, currently, Mosins are cheap and reliable with a good history behind them. Just be aware they're not for the recoil-shy.

I love Mausers, but for budgetary reasons I'd get the Mosin first.

The Swiss rifles are outstanding, but the ammo was never cheap even when they were issued, and will never ever be cheap now.

Hehe most of those bolt gun's aren't... First time shooting a Mauser... that was.. interesting... I vaguely recall an oval shaped bruise on my shoulder for about a week from the butt-plate... granted that I was probably only 13 at the time...

I entirely intend to put a nice soft cover on the butt... (who doesn't like a nice soft butt... )

 

[Devilpup]

Hehe most of those bolt gun's aren't... First time shooting a Mauser... that was.. interesting... I vaguely recall an oval shaped bruise on my shoulder for about a week from the butt-plate... granted that I was probably only 13 at the time...

I entirely intend to put a nice soft cover on the butt... (who doesn't like a nice soft butt... )

Check out ATI stocks for the Mauser and the Mosin. They alter the comb from a European style (damn near straight) to an American style (larger drop) and add recoil pads. Helped a ton with my M44.

 

[Gunney]

Check out ATI stocks for the Mauser and the Mosin. They alter the comb from a European style (damn near straight) to an American style (larger drop) and add recoil pads. Helped a ton with my M44.

I don't think I could stomach the idea of putting a sporterised stock on one a classic rifle... Maybe though... I think I could get used to the kick though...

 

[Kilroy08]

I vaguely recall an oval shaped bruise on my shoulder for about a week from the butt-plate

So funny you mention that. I'm what I guess would be considered a seasoned shooter. I've shot everything fro pea shooters to punt guns.

I had my M44 Mosin out at the last informal target meet, little did I know it would prove to be so popular. You can actually feel the shock wave from the muzzle blast when you fire it! After banging away with it, everybody else had to see if they were man enough to handle it. This included one fellow who's only prior experience was a Red Rider. With proper instruction, they were let loose. Hold it tight and fall in love with it!

We all had butt plate shaped badges of honor and the guys who had never shot an old WW II rifle had smiles you couldn't beat off of their faces with a 10 lb sledge hammer.

 

[Gunney]

hehe It's an excellent feeling firing an old WWII rifle for the first time. Built when things were mean't to last; built to be used not only as a weapon, but as a club and tool too. Sure beats the plastic Armalite (although my people do swear by them as useful tools for gaining independence...)

I had another question: Since I am only 18 I know that I cannot, myself, buy a pistol. But how about ownership? Could one be gifted to someone under 21 legally? I am finding myself drawn to the Nagant Revolvers... I know they are C-R... Although again, nothing urgent I am talking months out.

 

[Kilroy08]

It really depends on your state laws, I see you are from New England. May I ask which state? Some places up there aren't too terribly friendly.

As far as the ATF is concerned, 21 to purchase handguns and 18 to own.

 

[Devilpup]

It really depends on your state laws,
As far as the ATF is concerned, 21 to purchase handguns and 18 to own.

big + 1. Some states can require that the person giving the firearm be certain relationship (close relative, spouse, common-law marriage). Also it it illegal for you to give them money, them to buy it and then give it to you. If one of you gets into hot water and they look and find that you withdrew $200 from your bank and three days later bob bought the pistol for $200 and then a couple weeks later gave it to you it could mean jail time. If the buyer is a direct relation (parent, grandparent, legal gardian, or sibling) the laws are much more relaxed. I've also run into the problem of gifting across state lines, as I'm a MO resident and my dad is an IL resident, but thats a whole different can of worms.

 

[Uncle Brian]

I had a Swedish Mauser in 6.5 x 55 and it was a very nice accurate rifle. That would be my pick if it's available, not sure on the ammo price.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/

 

[Gunney]

It really depends on your state laws, I see you are from New England. May I ask which state? Some places up there aren't too terribly friendly.

As far as the ATF is concerned, 21 to purchase handguns and 18 to own.

Rhode Island

big + 1. Some states can require that the person giving the firearm be certain relationship (close relative, spouse, common-law marriage). Also it it illegal for you to give them money, them to buy it and then give it to you. If one of you gets into hot water and they look and find that you withdrew $200 from your bank and three days later bob bought the pistol for $200 and then a couple weeks later gave it to you it could mean jail time. If the buyer is a direct relation (parent, grandparent, legal gardian, or sibling) the laws are much more relaxed. I've also run into the problem of gifting across state lines, as I'm a MO resident and my dad is an IL resident, but thats a whole different can of worms.

I would just use a parent of mine... and in the same state... Besides by the time I get signed on with a Range it will probably be closer to Xmas anyway...

I had a Swedish Mauser in 6.5 x 55 and it was a very nice accurate rifle. That would be my pick if it's available, not sure on the ammo price.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/

Ammo would probably be difficult to get a hold of and expensive... cheaper than dirt has it for a little over $1/rnd. I have heard that the Swedish Mausers are wonderful though.

 

[Uncle Brian]

Rather than pick a rifle and then wonder if the ammo is too expensive look for a good supply of cheap ammo and then find the best rifle in the caliber.
Maybe 5.56 of 7.62x52 ? an old AR-15/M16 or something American in 7.62 like a M14