Suggestions for O/U shotgun

[Maximumsmoke]

Yes, those old original 101's made by Olin Kodensha are good. Find one with 30-inch barrels if you can. It might or might not be a problem that lots of guns from that era weren't rigged for interchangeable choke tubes. You also might like a Miroku or a Charles Daly -- beautiful well-made guns.

You probably already know this but all these Japanese clones of the Browning Superposed are related through Miroku. Miroku made some really good guns under their own name. They made the exact same guns for sale under the Charles Daly name. When Winchester Repeating Arms Corp. (owned by Olin in those days) wanted to have a O/U, they made a joint venture with Miroku to make the 101: Olin Kodensha. John Browning did not make guns, he designed them. Winchester made his designs -- until they didn't want to pay for any new ones, so also did Colt and others. Browning labeled guns have been made just about everywhere. Even Beretta, the largest small arms manufacturer in the world, and the 2nd oldest company on earth made or still makes some models for the Browning name. (The oldest company on earth is Zildjian -- makers of cymbals, once a Turkish company, now a US company, but I digress, yes I was a drummer in a high school rock band in the mid '60's.) When Browning wanted to keep the price low on their O/U's they got together with Miroku and came out with the Citori line. Those are even closer cousins to the original Mirokus than the Winchester 101. Browning might have assisted or maybe even licensed Miroku in the original design of Mirou O/U's for that matter - not sure. Of course Winchester and Browning are together as one company today -- U.S. Repeating Arms. The newest Winchester 101's are made with Beretta cooperation. Aside from barrel orientation, they are nothing like the Olin Kodensha original 101's. They are a good design, arguably better in some ways, but they are made to a price point and a style I don't particularly like, so I don't have time for them.

Good luck with your search!

Cheers!

 

[Maximumsmoke]

Lever Centering -- Hmm . . . Most breech locking systems in break-action guns have a locking "bolt" of some sort designed to compensate for wear to some degree, be it a round plunger underbolt as in old Remington doubles, or the flat Purdey underbolt most commonly seen, or the rotary bolt found in L.C. Smith's, Fox's and the Ithaca NID's. That "bolt" is a wedge and as it and it's mating surfaces wear, it travels further, and hence the top-lever moves further in the direction it moves on closing the gun -- to the right in most guns, as they were all designed for right-hand dominant folks. The poor lefties get left out in product design -- almost. Southpaws do make awesomely competitive athletes, great thinkers, and great women, though, but I digress. So anyway, the lever moves right with wear. Honestly, except for aesthetics, that is no big deal, until it runs out of travel and can't move left any further! The main thing to do about it is to check that a break action gun does indeed have a tight lock-up and doesn't have play in its hinge. Lever to the left? That's for brand new, very tight guns. The intent of the designer is to have the lever centered. It will be when the gun is "broken in". If the lever is centered or even a few degrees to the left, unless the locking parts are soft and wearing rapidly for some reason, or the gun has other problems such as a lot of hinge pin wear (gapped at the breach - "off face"), the gun still has a few lifetimes of use left in it.

Cheers!

 

[ColtRevolver]

With a Browning the lever is to the right when new or with a recent bolt replacement. It moves left with wear. It takes a pile of rounds to move the lever to center. Even at center, it usually takes a lot of shooting before it goes left and starts popping open. I wouldn't walk away from a Browning with a centered top lever. I wouldn't walk away from one to the left, either. I'd just use that fact in the negotiation of the price.

A Citori is good for tens of thousands of shells before it needs a locking bolt replacement.

 

[BigFoot]

This may work for you, Adam.

 

[Whisky]

I asked for suggestions over a year ago and I still haven’t purchased anything. The LGS has had exactly one used Citori come through in that time and it was sold before I could get up there to look at it. They do, right now, have a Ruger Red Label made in 1997. It looks to be in good used condition with the exception of a crack in the forearm which seems to be a common issue and easily repairable. I can probably get it for 900-1k because they’ve had it for a while and haven’t been able to move it.

Any thoughts on the Red Labels? I know they were never the most popular O/U made bud the folks that have seen to like them.

 

[ColtRevolver]

I'd pass on a Red Label. Parts are hard to find. I believe Ruger no longer works on them, either. Many people feel like recoil is harsh from them, also.

 

[FarmerTan]

I really want two guns, and I'm pretty sure my lovely War Department will allocate the funds; guns are usually fine with her because she out shoots me with my own dang guns!

I'd like a .410 and a 16 gauge. No good reason, I just want the blasted things!

 

[ColtRevolver]

I sold my only 16 gauge a few years ago. I don't want another. Shells are too hard to find.

 

[FarmerTan]

No one shotgun is a do it all for skeet, trap, and birds. Birds too, do best with different guns depending on the bird species and hunting environment.

Trap gunners tend to like longer barrels, but...I shot VTA with 26" barrels. Personal preference, shorter barrels swing better for me.

Skeet and clays, I prefer the same 26" barrels. Again, preference.

I hunted upland birds, Mr. Bobwhite, chucker, and others with 24" and 26" barrels. Prefer the 26" overall because it works well for me.

Never did waterfowl where shots are longer. Might want more barrel for those.

Owned a couple of 28" but never did care for the feel.

Citori is a fine shotgun that comes in many flavors. Each model, I owned plenty, has good features and bad. Those silver nitride finished guns wear well and develop character with age. The weakness is when a shooting line faces the sun. Glare is tremendous. But still my favorite finish. World of difference in feel between a Grand Citori forearm and a Citori with a Schnabel forend. Straight English or Prince of Wales stock? Different feels. Different strengths and weaknesses. Preference.

Beretta feels lighter and more elegant. But they never came up right to my liking. Sold mine years ago.

When shopping, swing the shotgun and also shake it up and down and barrel from ground to ceiling. Listen for any rattle. Rattle indicates the barrel joining is damaged, most likely from being dropped in the store. Run away from any double sbs or ou with that sound. Expensive factory fix.

Stick with 12 GA for the sports but you can shoot 20 at least you used to could. Never saw a 16 GA at any club shoot. But my knowledge may be a bit dated on the rules. My last years were exclusively hunting upland with 20 GA.

My advice is twofold. Find a few places that rent shotguns. Try a few different brands. Second, find a certified instructor, Find an Instructor - https://mynssa.nssa-nsca.org/instructors-2/. He can teach you how to fit a gun for you personally. Which chokes work best for a given situation. Valuable knowledge that can save a $$$$ mistake. Helps you figure out the closest fit off the rack. Makes differ in heel drop, comb height, cast, balance, and feel. Not every one will work well for every shooter. Two models of the same gun will pattern differently.


Hope this helps you out. Let me know if I can help out.

Genius advice right here. Thanks my friend.

 

[FarmerTan]

This is what I'm talking about, glare off the shotgun. Can happen, learn to deal with it.

View attachment 1538285

That dog is working, Baby! The most beautiful thing you'll ever see outdoors is a well trained bird dog.

 

[FarmerTan]

Yes, those old original 101's made by Olin Kodensha are good. Find one with 30-inch barrels if you can. It might or might not be a problem that lots of guns from that era weren't rigged for interchangeable choke tubes. You also might like a Miroku or a Charles Daly -- beautiful well-made guns.

You probably already know this but all these Japanese clones of the Browning Superposed are related through Miroku. Miroku made some really good guns under their own name. They made the exact same guns for sale under the Charles Daly name. When Winchester Repeating Arms Corp. (owned by Olin in those days) wanted to have a O/U, they made a joint venture with Miroku to make the 101: Olin Kodensha. John Browning did not make guns, he designed them. Winchester made his designs -- until they didn't want to pay for any new ones, so also did Colt and others. Browning labeled guns have been made just about everywhere. Even Beretta, the largest small arms manufacturer in the world, and the 2nd oldest company on earth made or still makes some models for the Browning name. (The oldest company on earth is Zildjian -- makers of cymbals, once a Turkish company, now a US company, but I digress, yes I was a drummer in a high school rock band in the mid '60's.) When Browning wanted to keep the price low on their O/U's they got together with Miroku and came out with the Citori line. Those are even closer cousins to the original Mirokus than the Winchester 101. Browning might have assisted or maybe even licensed Miroku in the original design of Mirou O/U's for that matter - not sure. Of course Winchester and Browning are together as one company today -- U.S. Repeating Arms. The newest Winchester 101's are made with Beretta cooperation. Aside from barrel orientation, they are nothing like the Olin Kodensha original 101's. They are a good design, arguably better in some ways, but they are made to a price point and a style I don't particularly like, so I don't have time for them.

Good luck with your search!

Cheers!

Oh my! I never knew that about Zildjian! I've lost count of my 1960's era ones. I've a "sizzler" I called it that has to be 18 or 24" across! Bunch of rivets all around it. And an old set of Gretsch drums with ugly wraps. I probably spent a million calories on those things.

Quite possibly the dumbest instrument to let an ADHD boy play! How my old man never killed me I will never know.

 

[ctr]

That dog is working, Baby! The most beautiful thing you'll ever see outdoors is a well trained bird dog.

Isn't that the truth! No finer day than one spent in the field. Watching dogs use their abilities, instincts, and smarts to work birds. Those are days the good Lord made just for bird hunters.

 

[DesertIguana]

If it was 1965, and you had money to spend a Belgium Browning Superposed.

 

[ColtRevolver]

You gotta be careful when considering one of those old Brownings. You don't want to end up with a salt wood gun. Allegedly, 1966 was the first year of them.

 

[KenM]

I asked for suggestions over a year ago and I still haven’t purchased anything. The LGS has had exactly one used Citori come through in that time and it was sold before I could get up there to look at it. They do, right now, have a Ruger Red Label made in 1997. It looks to be in good used condition with the exception of a crack in the forearm which seems to be a common issue and easily repairable. I can probably get it for 900-1k because they’ve had it for a while and haven’t been able to move it.

Any thoughts on the Red Labels? I know they were never the most popular O/U made bud the folks that have seen to like them.

I haven't had one to the range but have handled them (I really wanted the 20 gauge version 'cause they're pretty), the fit was really weird. It almost felt, to me, like one of the really old shotguns that you shoot without getting a cheek weld on the stock. Maybe that's the recoil complaints @ColtRevolver mentioned, a shotgun that gets a running start at your face is bad news. But fit is an individual thing.

 

[Lockback]

I asked for suggestions over a year ago and I still haven’t purchased anything. The LGS has had exactly one used Citori come through in that time and it was sold before I could get up there to look at it. They do, right now, have a Ruger Red Label made in 1997. It looks to be in good used condition with the exception of a crack in the forearm which seems to be a common issue and easily repairable. I can probably get it for 900-1k because they’ve had it for a while and haven’t been able to move it.

Any thoughts on the Red Labels? I know they were never the most popular O/U made bud the folks that have seen to like them.

I have a Red Label from that era and it's a wonderful shotgun. As others have stated, it's been discontinued and I'm not sure how hard it is to find spare parts but it's built like the proverbial tank and I've always shot it well.

 

[Whisky]

I have a Red Label from that era and it's a wonderful shotgun. As others have stated, it's been discontinued and I'm not sure how hard it is to find spare parts but it's built like the proverbial tank and I've always shot it well.

Rugers site says they’re still servicing these shotguns, so if anything happens it can go back to be repaired.

 

[ColtRevolver]

I believe there are two generations of Red Label. Ruger isn't servicing all of them. This list is from their site:

 

[Whisky]

I haven't had one to the range but have handled them (I really wanted the 20 gauge version 'cause they're pretty), the fit was really weird. It almost felt, to me, like one of the really old shotguns that you shoot without getting a cheek weld on the stock. Maybe that's the recoil complaints @ColtRevolver mentioned, a shotgun that gets a running start at your face is bad news. But fit is an individual thing.

This one has an aftermarket buttplate on it to adjust the LOP, maybe a Graco? What it actually means is I’d probably end up buying an aftermarket stock to put on it. There are surprisingly quite a few.

Screen shot from LGS website.

 

[ColtRevolver]

That doesn't look like it adjusts LOP