Being new to straight razor shaving there is always a issue I strop my razor prior to shaving 10-15 on canvas and 25-30 on leather with being said I start to shave 1/2 way on my cheek ok after that the razor has lost I guess sharpness I am really confused I recently purchased a Dovo hoping a better quality razor would help no go. Any ideas would be helpful Stan
Stropping
- Thread starter Stan
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rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
There are two main causes for an SR to loose its edge during shaving; a fin edge (honing error) and/or a too greater a shave angle (shaving technique).
Dovo's (and most other "mass" produced SR's) normally don't come truly shave-ready unless they have been honed by a private individual who really knows how to properly hone an SR.
Dovo's (and most other "mass" produced SR's) normally don't come truly shave-ready unless they have been honed by a private individual who really knows how to properly hone an SR.
You need to be 100% certain the blade you purchased was truly shave ready. If it really was shave ready there should be no need for you to strop it. Being a newbie you might round a truly shave ready edge until you become more proficient in stropping.
I would be certain you have really a shave ready razor and then avoid honing it. That way you’ll have a base line what a shave ready blade feels like on your face, IMHO
I would be certain you have really a shave ready razor and then avoid honing it. That way you’ll have a base line what a shave ready blade feels like on your face, IMHO
like above get a razor honed by known honer. it will be an eye opening experience you will then have reference for a proper edge. prolly not this case but poor stropping can cause issues. what part of country are you. if it a new dovo and doesnt need any major corrections, i will hone it for you just cover shipping.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
@Stan it is very unlikely that your stropping is causing the problem. Incorrect stropping will cause the edge to be rounded and the edge will then be dull from the first stroke.
If your shave angle is too high, you can dull the edge while shaving and having a fin edge will only exasperate the problem.
If the blade was received with a fin edge, stropping will not generally remove it. When shaving with a fin edge, even with the correct shave angle, the fin edge will quickly curl over making the edge dull. Correct stropping will then return the fin edge and the results will continue with each shave. Eventually the fin will break off but then you will just he left with a dull edge from the first stroke.
For the correct shaving angle with a truly shave-ready edge is with the spine about ½ to 1 spine-thickness away from the skin. Don't believe that 30° stuff that some say on youtube. One spine-thickness is about 17°.
If your shave angle is too high, you can dull the edge while shaving and having a fin edge will only exasperate the problem.
If the blade was received with a fin edge, stropping will not generally remove it. When shaving with a fin edge, even with the correct shave angle, the fin edge will quickly curl over making the edge dull. Correct stropping will then return the fin edge and the results will continue with each shave. Eventually the fin will break off but then you will just he left with a dull edge from the first stroke.
For the correct shaving angle with a truly shave-ready edge is with the spine about ½ to 1 spine-thickness away from the skin. Don't believe that 30° stuff that some say on youtube. One spine-thickness is about 17°.
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The importance of stropping and how you strop was not clear to me when I started using a straight almost six months ago. I now have a high-quality Tony Miller "value" strop, seem to be cracking the DNA of stropping, and am getting sharper and smoother edges - and passing HHT is no longer the challenge it once was.
If you do a little research, you will find legendary stories (both old and new) of guys keeping an edge going for crazy numbers of shaves. Two more recent stories are from @Doc226 and @Steve56.
The story seems to go something like this:
If you do a little research, you will find legendary stories (both old and new) of guys keeping an edge going for crazy numbers of shaves. Two more recent stories are from @Doc226 and @Steve56.
The story seems to go something like this:
- The bevel needs to be sound, passing the cherry tomato test for every mm of the edge. At this point the razor should shave hair, but you might not enjoy the shave.
- After using your finishing stone, the edge should appear very smooth under your loupe - almost mirror like under bright light. At this point, you should be able to shave with the razor, but the edge might feel harsh and might not pass the HHT.
- Now you need to rub that sucker on leather, using firm but gentle, smooth strokes - like stroking a cat. When the cat purrs, you know that you are dialed in. At this point, the razor should pass HHT and provide you with a sharp, smooth shave.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Dovo says their razors are shave ready. In fact, you void the warranty when you hone them.
BWAAAAAAAAAhahahahahaha! Not even close to shave ready, fresh from the factory. And if it is an entry level Dovo, then IMHO it is far from being high quality, though the steel itself is very good. If you want high quality in a Dovo, you need to go up a shelf or two from the "Best Quality" and the "Special" and the ones rebranded for "Colonel Conk".
You will need to get your razor or razors honed by someone who actually knows how it is done. Many people, even women, believe it or not, claim to be able to hone a razor. Guess how many actually have a clue? Let me give you a hint. Never trust someone to hone your straight razor if he doesn't shave every day with a straight razor. How would he even have a clue? Pick a honer that is part of our community or recommended by members of the community. That pretty much means this forum or other straight shaving forums.
Once you actually have a shave ready razor, you can learn how to shave. A few things to remember are:
1. Shave angle. A shave angle that is too high is not shaving. It is scraping. Lay the razor flat against your face. Now tilt the spine out away from the face until the gap between spine and face equals one spine thickness. That is your standard shave angle. A dull razor will need a slightly wider gap, maybe one and a half spine thicknesses. A very sharp razor, about a half spine thickness.
2. Stretch the skin tightly. Pull the skin upstream, against the direction of the whisker growth. Stretch tightly. Help out by making "shaving faces".
3. I should have mentioned this first, but proper prep is incredibly important. A good slick lather, and well hydrated whiskers. That takes a whole post in itself to explain.
4. Don't press hard against the face. Think of it as just scooping the lather away from your face. If the razor is sharp and your technique is good, it will also scoop away the whiskers.
5. Don't try to get a perfect shave. It is NOT IMPORTANT. Closeness will come with experience. Meanwhile, concentrate on not cutting or over-exfoliating or otherwise traumatizing your face. Comfort first.
6. Go WTG only, your first couple dozen shaves. Shave, then re-lather, and shave again, WTG both times. That should give you a decent shave without any discomfort.
7. Make sure you actually know how to strop. You don't need to strop a true shave ready razor the first time you shave with it, just every subsequent shave after the first one. Stand by for howls of outrage, but I absolutely do not believe that linen, canvas, firehose, or any other fabric component stropping is necessary or in any way more beneficial than just stropping on leather. Linen and canvas have hosed up many an edge. HAHAHAHA Pun alert. Make sure you pull your strop tight, but not like full bodyweight tight. Always touch down on the strop with the spine, never the edge. The spine contacts the strop before the edge. The edge comes up off the strop before the spine. This is very important. And at the end of the stroke when you turn around to strop the other way, flip the EDGE up and over, not the spine. The spine stays on the strop. Don't press the razor down hard on the strop, either.
BWAAAAAAAAAhahahahahaha! Not even close to shave ready, fresh from the factory. And if it is an entry level Dovo, then IMHO it is far from being high quality, though the steel itself is very good. If you want high quality in a Dovo, you need to go up a shelf or two from the "Best Quality" and the "Special" and the ones rebranded for "Colonel Conk".
You will need to get your razor or razors honed by someone who actually knows how it is done. Many people, even women, believe it or not, claim to be able to hone a razor. Guess how many actually have a clue? Let me give you a hint. Never trust someone to hone your straight razor if he doesn't shave every day with a straight razor. How would he even have a clue? Pick a honer that is part of our community or recommended by members of the community. That pretty much means this forum or other straight shaving forums.
Once you actually have a shave ready razor, you can learn how to shave. A few things to remember are:
1. Shave angle. A shave angle that is too high is not shaving. It is scraping. Lay the razor flat against your face. Now tilt the spine out away from the face until the gap between spine and face equals one spine thickness. That is your standard shave angle. A dull razor will need a slightly wider gap, maybe one and a half spine thicknesses. A very sharp razor, about a half spine thickness.
2. Stretch the skin tightly. Pull the skin upstream, against the direction of the whisker growth. Stretch tightly. Help out by making "shaving faces".
3. I should have mentioned this first, but proper prep is incredibly important. A good slick lather, and well hydrated whiskers. That takes a whole post in itself to explain.
4. Don't press hard against the face. Think of it as just scooping the lather away from your face. If the razor is sharp and your technique is good, it will also scoop away the whiskers.
5. Don't try to get a perfect shave. It is NOT IMPORTANT. Closeness will come with experience. Meanwhile, concentrate on not cutting or over-exfoliating or otherwise traumatizing your face. Comfort first.
6. Go WTG only, your first couple dozen shaves. Shave, then re-lather, and shave again, WTG both times. That should give you a decent shave without any discomfort.
7. Make sure you actually know how to strop. You don't need to strop a true shave ready razor the first time you shave with it, just every subsequent shave after the first one. Stand by for howls of outrage, but I absolutely do not believe that linen, canvas, firehose, or any other fabric component stropping is necessary or in any way more beneficial than just stropping on leather. Linen and canvas have hosed up many an edge. HAHAHAHA Pun alert. Make sure you pull your strop tight, but not like full bodyweight tight. Always touch down on the strop with the spine, never the edge. The spine contacts the strop before the edge. The edge comes up off the strop before the spine. This is very important. And at the end of the stroke when you turn around to strop the other way, flip the EDGE up and over, not the spine. The spine stays on the strop. Don't press the razor down hard on the strop, either.
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I live upstate NY thank you
jackgoldman123
Boring and predictable
Are X-strokes necessary even with a 3 inch leather strop, or could you just go straight up and down the pipe? I've been reading the pdf on pasted balsa strops and it states to use X strokes. Should that stropping technique apply to leather also?
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
IMHO, yes, you should use a bit of an X stroke, even when your strop is wide enough to carry the entire length of the blade.
I agree with both of the above posts. X-stokes are ideal. They allow the blade to contact different areas of the strop and give a slight longitudinal action that cleans up the apex. The problem is that wide 3” strops are not well suited to x-strokes. Almost all strops have a pivot on the top. Once the blade starts coming off the strop past halfway the strop starts to tilt and becomes unstable.
The more experienced I become with straight razors the more I prefer narrower strops and hones. 2 to 2.5 inch used to be the standard. People weren’t too poor to afford an extra inch of leather or stone in the old days. They were popular because they work better. Less is more here. More versatile. It allows you to do x-strokes with a more stable stropping platform. It allows you to get more even wear on the blade, work sections of the blade and hone razors with less than perfect geometry.
A 3 inch strop is a compromise. It’s easier to use straight up and down. But this comes with increased risk of cupping, poor contact areas at the edges and limited capacity to perform effective x-strokes. With a three inch strop straight up and down is ok. A slight x is good too. Narrower strops are in my view more effective.
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Thanks Slash. I see a $70 strop on maggards that looks pretty decent to start with- it has a canvas side also. 3" Latigo from Mountain Mike. Is that Ok to start out with or something cheaper? I'm planning on starting with 3 homemade balsa strops and just use the 0.1 after my first shave then strop it on leather.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
I have that same strop. I don't care for it much, and I hardly ever use it. don't like the draw, but it is well made, nothing cheap about it. My two favorite strops are my Kanayama and a pressed cowhide one I made a few years ago. You might like the MM strop, but I would gently steer you toward one of Tony MIller's veg tanned cowhide offerings, or maybe a horse butt model if he has any. The MM will work just fine, though.
Latigo is a very grippy strop in use. The oils make for a heavy draw.
Its just a preference for some.
Slick is best for me.
The TM strops seem a great value to me. While you may nick your first strop, I believe TM can provide replacement components at a reasonable price and you get to use a high quality strop the whole time. Agree that the MM is nicely made so it may just be a matter of draw preference. I use a kanayama about 90% of the time and a TM horsehide the rest. I like a light draw. I have a MM bridle leather (indeed it was my first, also from Maggards) and it is a very nice piece, just a heavier draw than I prefer.
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