Looks to be in the neighborhood of 7 cents per test. Not to bad.
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Stropping
- Thread starter jlcampi
- Start date
Looks to be in the neighborhood of 7 cents per test. Not to bad.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Scott, I've ordered the same model, from Sharpening Supplies. I couldn't find a better price, and Sharpening Supplies is run by people who've always been helpful and straight with me. I'd still have ordered elsewhere had I found a significantly better price from a reliable vendor.
I didn't order any extra media. I have no idea of doing any big research with the device. Actually I'm not entirely sure how I will use the tool. I'm going to play with it and get a feel for how useful it is and test my edges, but what else will I do? I have no idea.
Is this a tool any of us really need? I suspect many gentlemen don't need it, but many would enjoy it and find it useful. I find the various tests (other than the shave test) for ultimate razor sharpness beyond my abilities or understanding. In other words, I can't figure out how to do them worth a flip.
For anyone like me, or for anyone who finds the idea of actually knowing in a precise, objective, and defined manner how sharp the edges really are, this looks like the instrument to own.
This thread is interesting to me, but it is probably more about stropping, albeit heavy stropping, than anything else. It will be interesting to see what develops with the thread started on the PT50A. I would assume most of us (the true crazies) would buy the same model. It's more expensive, a lot more expensive, but, for us, because we're crazy about the subject, the difference between the models is quite significant.
My tester should arrive on Thursday according the tracking information which I just checked.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Mine is getting delivered today, but I work nights and have a VERY busy week/weekend, mothers day stuff, etc... so while I'm sure I'll get it out and play a bit... probably won't have much to say on it until next week.
There's a youtube video that mentions how many tests you get out of the included media with the model we're buying... I remember it being a lot, I want to say at least 300+. So you should be good with that for awhile unless you're checking every edge at multiple points. Let's ignore his heavily bandaged thumb.
It's not that video... Hmmm. I know I saw it somewhere... maybe on their site?
Ok, the site says media included, and has a picture of the media refill which is good for 325 tests... so hopefully we can assume the included media is a full refill kit... haven't found confirmation yet.
I could see MAYBE getting away with a B... depending on what your goal is (checking your honing maybe)... but for comparing stones, an A is necessary in my opinion. I think the C is basically pointless for us.
Also, the A includes both fixtures and a warranty that the others lack... really well worth it imho.
There's a youtube video that mentions how many tests you get out of the included media with the model we're buying... I remember it being a lot, I want to say at least 300+. So you should be good with that for awhile unless you're checking every edge at multiple points. Let's ignore his heavily bandaged thumb.
It's not that video... Hmmm. I know I saw it somewhere... maybe on their site?
Ok, the site says media included, and has a picture of the media refill which is good for 325 tests... so hopefully we can assume the included media is a full refill kit... haven't found confirmation yet.
I could see MAYBE getting away with a B... depending on what your goal is (checking your honing maybe)... but for comparing stones, an A is necessary in my opinion. I think the C is basically pointless for us.
Also, the A includes both fixtures and a warranty that the others lack... really well worth it imho.
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Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
The device has enough testing media for a lot of tests, 350 tests, included in the price, and can be refilled of course.
325 tests in the refill (and with the product as shipped; I'm pretty sure) for $23.
Then there are the test clips. I don't understand exactly how to use them or how accurate they are, but 25 are included with the product and refills are available, link. They're considerably more expensive per test and I don't know their advantage.
None of us have any idea why his thumb might be heavily bandaged I'm sure.
325 tests in the refill (and with the product as shipped; I'm pretty sure) for $23.
Then there are the test clips. I don't understand exactly how to use them or how accurate they are, but 25 are included with the product and refills are available, link. They're considerably more expensive per test and I don't know their advantage.
None of us have any idea why his thumb might be heavily bandaged I'm sure.
I don't think they have an advantage strictly speaking. I suspect they're slightly better for certain tools maybe, but based on most of what I'm seeing, they're the old tech (included with the C), the B gets the upgraded (media-based) tester. The A gets both.
I wouldn't be surprised if you get very slightly more accuracy at the higher cost per test, and the new tech was mostly a cost reducing change but I don't see any evidence of that in the descriptions... just my suspicion.
I'm sure one of us will compare and see if the results with the clips differs from with the media.
I'll mention that I didn't buy a refill media, because I suspect that I can find a cheaper alternative (weedwacker line is my first guess).
I wouldn't be surprised if you get very slightly more accuracy at the higher cost per test, and the new tech was mostly a cost reducing change but I don't see any evidence of that in the descriptions... just my suspicion.
I'm sure one of us will compare and see if the results with the clips differs from with the media.
I'll mention that I didn't buy a refill media, because I suspect that I can find a cheaper alternative (weedwacker line is my first guess).
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
I've watched some videos on the device. The advice was to stick with the more accurate proprietary media. Of course that advice may be driven by an excessive quest for absolute accuracy. I don't suspect the company makes much money on the refills, but maybe I'm wrong.
I suspect that the clips are just pre loaded media to save time in high volume production applications. Probably not of much use in 'our' application.
While I view all tests and feedback valuable, the device only tests three things that I can think of. 1. The force required to cut the media (a foil or toothy edge may look best here) 2. Edge durability (probably best to compare after a number of shaves as testing the same spot on media would be difficult) 3. Uniform sharpness along edge.
I see it as being used somewhat the same as the way I use HHT in that the results will need to be weighed along with what preceded and what followed the test. As in 'This test result following, this honing sequence, on these hones will likely translate to this shave.
I do look forward to hearing about the results and how the people using this device utilize it.
While I view all tests and feedback valuable, the device only tests three things that I can think of. 1. The force required to cut the media (a foil or toothy edge may look best here) 2. Edge durability (probably best to compare after a number of shaves as testing the same spot on media would be difficult) 3. Uniform sharpness along edge.
I see it as being used somewhat the same as the way I use HHT in that the results will need to be weighed along with what preceded and what followed the test. As in 'This test result following, this honing sequence, on these hones will likely translate to this shave.
I do look forward to hearing about the results and how the people using this device utilize it.
It's a good way to quantify max potential sharpness off a stone or of a particular grind/steel/razor. Gives a quantifiable measure other than rubbing your hands on your face after a shave. I think it'd be a waste of media to use it to judge uniformity (just learn TPT or HHT for that). And like you said, better ways to test durability, certainly.
Refills might not make much money, but if shark tank taught me anything it's that a sustainable business model is priority one. Scales that last decades don't create sustainable income, refill packs of media do. My guess is they have a 80% or better margin on the media, and it's their primary source of income any quarter they don't release a new model. That said, they aren't terribly expensive for small-scale use, so if it's a significant difference in accuracy, yeah I'll use them, but most plastic and nylon thread should be fairly consistent in force required to cut, so if I find some that fit in it, I'll probably be testing them against the media.
Refills might not make much money, but if shark tank taught me anything it's that a sustainable business model is priority one. Scales that last decades don't create sustainable income, refill packs of media do. My guess is they have a 80% or better margin on the media, and it's their primary source of income any quarter they don't release a new model. That said, they aren't terribly expensive for small-scale use, so if it's a significant difference in accuracy, yeah I'll use them, but most plastic and nylon thread should be fairly consistent in force required to cut, so if I find some that fit in it, I'll probably be testing them against the media.
There are 25 test metal clips. There is also a separate clip holder to be used that is included. The written material has a quick conversion method for the metal clips to get an accurate number. You basically multiply the grams by 1.2.
From my quick usage the metal test clips are self contained and easy to use. It takes a second or two to reload..
The other testing media is a spool (similar to a thread spool) that needs to be threaded after each use. Once proficient the company estimates it will take 10 second to reload.
To ensure that I have ample supplies of each I purchased 3 packs of 100 metal clips, and 1 package which contains 2 spools of the thread-like test material.
So if a refill kit is 2 spools and the device only comes with 1 spool, does that mean it comes with 325/2 tests worth of media? About 160 tests worth?
That's one of the things that you guys are going to clear up for us.
I like your idea of using thread or other as the media. It may not be certified accurate from spool to spool, but I'll bet it will be repeatable within the spool. Just one of the offshoots of volume manufacturing that everything intrinsically stays to pretty close tolerances.
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Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Each media canister does about 325 tests. It comes with a media canister.
That's my understanding from the SS website information. I'll perhaps know more when I receive my package. I'm sure you could talk to or email the SS people to get their answer.
What I know for sure is it's $23 (plus shipping) for 325 tests. That's all that I care about.
This video doesn't answer your question but it is interesting and helpful.
This one, too.
Happy shaves,
Jim
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Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Here's the link to another view. Link. This is the manufacturer showing the instrument. I can not embed the video but it is worth watching.
What they're doing in this video is showing something most of us know already. Feather blades (28) are sharper than Gillette blades (48).
This also is a nice reference point for those of us who'll be looking at our straight razor edges.
Here's another video. Link. It argues that perhaps we don't need to buy the most expensive of their models. It also talks about a couple of things very important to us.
This video is about the least expensive model intended for the home kitchen, but it has information of interest to us concerning the test clip system and basic operation of the instruments. Link.
All the video mentioned in this post can be found here.
Happy shaves,
Jim
What they're doing in this video is showing something most of us know already. Feather blades (28) are sharper than Gillette blades (48).
This also is a nice reference point for those of us who'll be looking at our straight razor edges.
Here's another video. Link. It argues that perhaps we don't need to buy the most expensive of their models. It also talks about a couple of things very important to us.
- Rolled edges.
- Oxidation.
This video is about the least expensive model intended for the home kitchen, but it has information of interest to us concerning the test clip system and basic operation of the instruments. Link.
All the video mentioned in this post can be found here.
Happy shaves,
Jim
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The instruction manual states: "You should have enough test media on the spool to conduct at least 100 tests."
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
The instruction manual is I believe for material which has been updated so some of what it says is outdated.
Again, I'm no expert. I'm just trying to figure it all out and reading the websites (the manufacturer and SS) and the material, and watching the videos.
I started a separate thread: Stropping & the Edge-On-Up Industrial Edge Tester
I believe this is the tester that was used by the author of The Refined Shave web site when he tested the sharpness of 47 different blade brands.
Razor Blade Sharpness Summary with Comparison Chart » refined shave
He found that some blades like Feather are quite sharp out of the wrapper, but tend to dull quickly during use, something that is confirmed by many subjective experiences.
In contrast, most DE blades have a coating that makes them smooth on the first shave, but slightly less keen. As the coating wears off, the blades become sharper. In some cases the improvement in sharpness is dramatic. A couple of examples of this are the BIC Chrome Platinum blades that become sharper on the second shave than a Feather blade on the first shave. Personna Comfort Coated Lab Blue blades also are much sharper on the second shave.
I have found that my subjective evaluation of about 20 different brands tends to parallel the Refined Shave test results. I love the blades at the upper end of the sharpness scale, but not in the most aggressive razors. Blades at the lower end of the sharpness scale do not work with my beard. Blades like Lab Blues and Astra SP blades are not quite sharp enough for my beard on the first shave, but are better on the next couple of shaves.
I am quite interested to seeing the results of others who have invested in the testing device.
Razor Blade Sharpness Summary with Comparison Chart » refined shave
He found that some blades like Feather are quite sharp out of the wrapper, but tend to dull quickly during use, something that is confirmed by many subjective experiences.
In contrast, most DE blades have a coating that makes them smooth on the first shave, but slightly less keen. As the coating wears off, the blades become sharper. In some cases the improvement in sharpness is dramatic. A couple of examples of this are the BIC Chrome Platinum blades that become sharper on the second shave than a Feather blade on the first shave. Personna Comfort Coated Lab Blue blades also are much sharper on the second shave.
I have found that my subjective evaluation of about 20 different brands tends to parallel the Refined Shave test results. I love the blades at the upper end of the sharpness scale, but not in the most aggressive razors. Blades at the lower end of the sharpness scale do not work with my beard. Blades like Lab Blues and Astra SP blades are not quite sharp enough for my beard on the first shave, but are better on the next couple of shaves.
I am quite interested to seeing the results of others who have invested in the testing device.
WARNING
The included media CHIPS RAZORS.I think it's actually some kind of teflon or kevlar product. I can't bite through it without sawing. Use with care and test with your less precious razors first. I have to take chips out of five razors from a 200 yr old seven day set now.
The included media CHIPS RAZORS.I think it's actually some kind of teflon or kevlar product. I can't bite through it without sawing. Use with care and test with your less precious razors first. I have to take chips out of five razors from a 200 yr old seven day set now.
Which version of the device did you purchase? There are three versions. The two least sensitive versions are more suited to knives than razors. The most sensitive version (and the most expensive) is the Industrial tester. It is supposed to have a sensitivity of 1 gram. The Industrial tester is supposed to come with both the aluminum holder and a spool of test media. Is the "sawing' motion required with both the disposable and spooled media?
I got the PT50A, but the media is the same between all three anyway. The difference is which media/fixtures are included (all 3 can use all both, but you must buy one or the other aftermarket for the B and C, the A comes with both). I only used the spool so far, but I believe the clips are the same media, it's just preloaded and at a consistent tension.
I don't saw on the device... you can't really because you have the blade in the gelatinous pivot-holder. Sawing would destroy that. I was saying I had to saw with my teeth to get through the media... meaning it's probably WAY too durable for testing a shaving razor (try biting though a piece of hair, it isn't hard).
I've bought light monofilament fishing line to try that. It'll be here tomorrow. Until then I might actually see if my hair is long enough to get into both clips and use that just to get practice with it. Edit: Hair is probably a no go... not strong enough for the tension screws. I think the lightest possible monofiliment fishing line is gonna be our answer.
I posted a picture in the other thread of the chips. These aren't little chips. On all but one razor they are pretty easy to see naked eye... ~1/5-1/4 the bevel deep. These are SERIOUS chips. This media is NOT suitable for a straight razor.
I don't saw on the device... you can't really because you have the blade in the gelatinous pivot-holder. Sawing would destroy that. I was saying I had to saw with my teeth to get through the media... meaning it's probably WAY too durable for testing a shaving razor (try biting though a piece of hair, it isn't hard).
I've bought light monofilament fishing line to try that. It'll be here tomorrow. Until then I might actually see if my hair is long enough to get into both clips and use that just to get practice with it. Edit: Hair is probably a no go... not strong enough for the tension screws. I think the lightest possible monofiliment fishing line is gonna be our answer.
I posted a picture in the other thread of the chips. These aren't little chips. On all but one razor they are pretty easy to see naked eye... ~1/5-1/4 the bevel deep. These are SERIOUS chips. This media is NOT suitable for a straight razor.
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