Stropping

[Proinsias]

Interesting stuff, thank you.

Will play around with some heavy stropping in the near future.

I am a little jealous of all your toys

 

[jlcampi]

I do tend to use a fair amount of pressure when I first start to hone on a stone. I usually start doing circles. The number of circles on each side depends on how much I think is needed. I might start with 40 circles on a dull blade and then drop to 35, 30,25,20, 15, 10, 9,8,7,6,5, 4, 3,2 then x-strokes with pressure gradually becoming lighter. Others use axe strokes. Others use nothing but x-strokes.

I know some folks here use the burr method, but I have never done that. There are lots of ways of checking to see if the bevel is set. I have used most of them. I use the thumb nail test, the thumb pad test, the three finger test, the paper cut test, the cherry tomato or grape cut test, and visual inspection using a USB microscope. I also do the arm hair test. A razor with a set bevel should shave arm hair at skin level.

Once you get the bevel set, everything else is just refining the edge, making it sharper and smoother. I tend to go back to circles with the intermediate hones, but start at 15 and work my way down to x-strokes. As you get to higher grit hones, the edge is becoming quite thin. You have to be very careful not to roll the edge as you flip the blade.

Once I get past bevel set, the only tests I use are the three-finger test and microscopic inspection and the arm hair test. Be sure you strop the blade before the AHT as the razor edge needs to be properly aligned to pass the test. Once I get to my finishing hones, I can pop arm hairs at 1/4" - 1/2" above skin level.

I was using a similar program. I have the usb microscope as well. What really seemed to help make small incremental changes was using the shapton reference lapping stone. If you are not familiar with this model it's bronze and extremely flat. They have 2 models, one in the $350 and one in the $500 range. This is the latter. One side is used to flatten stones, the other is used to flatten blades. Another option is to use blade sharpening side to scratch the surface of a polished edge. If the entire surface is not scratched, then you know your blade is not flat...this is how SharpeningSupplies.com recommended using the unit and I follow this method. I don't want to take any changes damaging this unit. When I made the decision to buy I must say I felt like it was wrong spending that much on a lapping place, particularly when I have the DMT's unit. In hindsight it was worth the cost. It did reveal problems that none of the other methods I had employed detected.

When I am honing, I hold only by the blade tank (area between the edge and scales). This allows me add pressure on either end of the blade to ensure that an equal amount of water is moving just in front of the blade. Of course this indicates equal contact along the surface of the stone. This also helped to to increase edge sharpness.

I will use a technical metaphor or two to try and describe the difference heavy stropping made. Keep in mind I reported this as soon as I discovered what was occurring. So I don't have any more experience that what I indicated above. At this point I see no reason to use any other method of stropping. I also will not hone until this doesn't work. Normally I am attempting some new method of sharping/honing/stropping after each shave as I never really had the blade sharp enoug for my liking. I have not has the stones out for a week or so. That is odd for me. The technical metaphors. Moving from the standard stropping method to the high pressure, low lap count is like going to dial-up to broadband internet or more recently like going from a a hard disk (mechanical spinning) to a solid state disk (SSD). Hopefully this means something to most or all of you guys.

I want to say that I have been impressed by the sophisticated nature and thoughtful replies of this forum. It very nice to be able to throw out a hypothesis and have it taken seriously with applicable replies.

 

[duke762]

Unreal!!! This is the first I've heard of a quantified method to test sharpness. Totally amazed! My arm hairs are telling me I must have one. As a compulsive sharpener of all things, this would come in useful!! I'm 3 years into straights and I don't feel I've mastered stropping yet. But every 6 months I months I look back and chuckle at what I thought was a good edge 6 months earlier. As far as stropping knives goes, hunters I've sharpened for prefer a toothier edge and the Benchmade that's been in my front pocket for 10 years is slightly toothy. It's purpose is to cut away my apron or clothing in case of entanglement at work and not much else. Opens easily with one hand and cuts like a fiend.

How do I know if the bevel is set properly?

I'm a big Benchmade fan and I've resharpened all of mine using the burr method just like you would with a razor.

 

[Joshua223]

Sharpness tester?! That is pretty cool. Never heard of anyone else on the razor forums utilizing those. Interesting.

Welcome to the forum btw.

 

[FlScott]

Other than the OP'er has anyone purchased and used the "Edge-On-Up Industrial Edge Tester?" I'm interested in reading about other's use of this product to quantifying sharpness.

Has anyone else used the heavy stropping technique, and if so, what are your findings?

Cheers

 

[Joshua223]

Other than the OP'er has anyone purchased and used the "Edge-On-Up Industrial Edge Tester?" I'm interested in reading about other's use of this product to quantifying sharpness.

Has anyone else used the heavy stropping technique, and if so, what are your findings?

Cheers

I'm wondering how much pressure he used myself. When I saw Maestro Livi stropping in a video it looked like he used more pressure than I do.
Is there a stropping pressure gauge I don't know about too!?

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Other than the OP'er has anyone purchased and used the "Edge-On-Up Industrial Edge Tester?" I'm interested in reading about other's use of this product to quantifying sharpness.

Has anyone else used the heavy stropping technique, and if so, what are your findings?

Cheers

I'd love to know too.

 

[FlScott]

This thread piqued my curiosity, so I ordered the "Edge-On-Up Industrial Edge Tester" today. I'm sure I'll eventually start a thread with pictures as I test this tool out.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

This thread piqued my curiosity, so I ordered the "Edge-On-Up Industrial Edge Tester" today. I'm sure I'll eventually start a thread with pictures as I test this tool out.

I am so excited for you, and for the rest of us as we follow along. Very cool! Real objective science and engineering tools will take us to the edge of the universe, right?

 

[azwetshaver]

I know of at least one other person who uses pressure when stropping. He also told me it requires less passes.

Very interesting discussion in this thread.

 

[Lord Fatboy]

Saw that device on Burrfection (a channel on the youtubes) and would love to have that much money, . It's a cool bit of kit though.
I tend to do a couple of deep, slow laps on a newly honed razor, followed by "regular" stropping.
It never gets rounded out beyond comfort, and it suits some razors (and leather types) more than others, but it has it's place.

 

[FlScott]

My initial plan is to hone several razors with the same type of edge. My test razors have a Norton 1000 bevel, 4000 and 8000 progression. I have a coticule and an ILR (I'm planning on getting a Black Arkansas). I'll exam each razor and take a picture of each razor and reading on the tester. I'd like to get a before sample for a foundation.

Then test out various pressure levels (on two Heirloom strops) and re-exam and photograph them while on the tester. I'll try to be methodical in the testing.

I am open to, any and all, suggestions for this testing.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I've been pondering the top post of this thread over night. Never before had I read about an instrument which actually measures and and quantifies the sharpness of an edge.

Sharpening Supplies sells these babies, and they have more than one model. There are at least two methods of testing the edge using the devices (according to what I've read). Link. The instruments are available elsewhere, too, of course. I've not shopped around. I'm not fixing to buy one of these instruments.

It's amazing to me I've not seen or heard of this device before. I'm embarrassed that I hadn't conceived of such an instrument and searched to see if one had been invented. Of course this sort of tool is in existence. It's necessary in many settings to quantify and accurately compare as opposed to guessing and sharing vague information.

View attachment 968120

Thank you, Jim @jlcampi, for starting this thread and for bringing to my attention this instrument. Perhaps instead of buying endless stones we should all buy one of these devices, quit guessing, and share actual data with one another.

We could even have a sub-forum to argue discuss the best way to use the PT50 Series Sharpness Testers from Edge-On-Up!

View attachment 968115

I've read this thread a number of times and pondered everything a bit. I can not discount your findings. If you're right, and I don't see how you could not be right as you have the numbers to back you up it's important stuff in my view that you've introduced here.

I do have a couple of questions and/or comments.

• I know the instrument is not measuring the edge's mellowness, but what is your impression of how your extreme stropping changes or improves or degrades the comfort and smoothness and mellowness of your edges.
• Could you go into some detail in describing exactly how you're stropping?
• How are you insuring you're not rolling your edges?

I'm assuming you're using regular stropping along with the extremely heavy stropping, but maybe not. Maybe all you're doing is a few laps of extremely heavy stropping?

How heavy? How much pressure? Are you using any particular strop (board, paddle, hanging) or type of leather or what exactly?

I realize it's not so easy explaining or describing stropping. Even more difficult is describing something which is marked different from the norm? How different? It probably needs to be quantified but I don't see any way to do that, so I'll try to listen carefully to what you say.

To a degree any of us can test (shave test) your heavy stropping method, right?

Thanks again, and happy shaves,

Jim

Very neat. I looked into these sorts of things years ago, but only found the real industrial models (used by scalpel manufacturers) which were tens of thousands of dollars for the intro-level ones.


I like this thread. I've for years maintained that DE blades are incredibly dull next to a well honed and stropped straight, and people called me crazy. Now I can call them bad at stropping. I mean let his initial results sink in the first time he even TRIED this (with an edge he admits wasn't close to perfect)... his edge immediately went to requiring 55-82.5% of the force of a DE. That is MASSIVELY, WILDLY sharper... and that's the first attempt on what was probably a relatively dull shaving edge.


How many tests does the media included last for and how much does replacement media cost? (edit: Nevermind, found that info on their site... so already ordered mine. Been wanting this tool for a damn decade. Thank you!)

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Very neat. I looked into these sorts of things years ago, but only found the real industrial models (used by scalpel manufacturers) which were tens of thousands of dollars for the intro-level ones.


I like this thread. I've for years maintained that DE blades are incredibly dull next to a well honed and stropped straight, and people called me crazy. Now I can call them bad at stropping. I mean let his initial results sink in the first time he even TRIED this (with an edge he admits wasn't close to perfect)... his edge immediately went to requiring 55-82.5% of the force of a DE. That is MASSIVELY, WILDLY sharper... and that's the first attempt on what was probably a relatively dull shaving edge.


How many tests does the media included last for and how much does replacement media cost? (edit: Nevermind, found that info on their site... so already ordered mine. Been wanting this tool for a damn decade. Thank you!)

You gentlemen buying this are heroes to our movement.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I'd give you suggestions, but I'm going to be doing them myself, so you should take other people's instead.

Of course I'm going to compare every damn stone I have
Dark Blue against YG thuri
Slurry on my Jnats vs water
Fresh Slurry on my Jnats vs "broken down" slurry
Palm stropping vs real stropping
Suede vs Canvas stropping
Canvas vs Leather stropping
I could go on for days. I'm going to have to start budgeting for buying new spools of media every month.

 

[SliceOfLife]

You gentlemen buying this are heroes to our movement.

I'm not kidding, I was close to buying one of the $10k ($13k I think it was actually) machines a few years ago. I mean... who really needs a new car? Then my fuel pump went.

 

[FlScott]

I'd give you suggestions, but I'm going to be doing them myself, so you should take other people's instead.

Of course I'm going to compare every damn stone I have
Dark Blue against YG thuri
Slurry on my Jnats vs water
Fresh Slurry on my Jnats vs "broken down" slurry
Palm stropping vs real stropping
Suede vs Canvas stropping
Canvas vs Leather stropping
I could go on for days. I'm going to have to start budgeting for buying new spools of media every month.

I have a bunch of different comparisons running through my head. This should be entertaining.

 

[weston]

Sorry if this has already run through the forum, but I found this site cool: scienceofsharp

Apparently, the site provoked some passionate views in another forum; I'm not offering this to do the same here.

I find the imagery amazing. Correlating the imagery with a sharpness tester, and shave experience, and hone method, could be a genuine advance. Lots of ways to proceed. Thoughts?

 

[Dzaw]

I’ve had my links to that site broken by some mods who say we’re not supposed to hit link to sites that “duplicate” content on B&B. Since I never did find that information here, I didn’t think it duplicated anything here, but I learned long ago that one does not argue with moderators on message boards, so I let it lie.

The simple razor honing method laid out over at science of sharp is how I hone my razors right now. Works like a charm! The only thin I change is I use pasted balsa strops after the denim instead of putting paste on a leather strop.

 

[weston]

Oh - yeesh, sorry - (sheepish shrug) - Mods, please edit as you see fit


Weston