Stropping & the Edge-On-Up Industrial Edge Tester

[FlScott]

I received the Edge-On-Up Edge Tester, PT50A Industrial and this is the initial post for discussion.

To begin this thread I'm posting pictures to show the item.

The first photograph shows the scale, the black fulcrum, and the aluminum test media fixture.

The next picutre is a side-by-side showing the black test media clip fixture which hold holds the disposable test clips and then the aluminum test media fixture which holds a spool of test media.

I'll be adding more to this thread but I thought I'd get this discussion moved over to it's own dedicated heading.

Let the conversation begin...

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

There is another thread containing some relevant information on this instrument and its uses. That thread is linked here. Several people including Scott (the OP) have posted good stuff there some of which might also end up here.

I have purchased the A version of this instrument but haven't received it yet. Mine should arrive on Thursday according to the tracking number stuff.

Anybody considering this instrument should be aware that the B instrument might be sufficient for our needs. A video by the manufacturer pretty much makes that argument, and is linked in a post I made on the other thread.

I also notice that Scott is a cold water shaver (like me). That tells me I'm right in thinking that he should be committed to the asylum (BOSC) as should anyone else even thinking about buying one of these tools.

My first project should be to test the G-F blade but I'm pretty sure I sent my last G-F blade to Joel or somebody considering shaving trying to shave with it. I'd love to know how it tests with the Edge On Industrial Edge Tester.

This is going to be a lot of fun and very helpful to me. The instrument is simple to use (from the videos I've watched, etc.) and will furnish reproducible, accurate, objective information about how sharp our edges are. I anticipate becoming much better at honing.

I also know that one of my big questions will be answered. That question? When should I stop honing?

On the other thread I posted links to videos showing the numbers for a Gillette DE blade and a Feather DE blade. Gillette 48. Feather 28. Can I get my SR edges to a 27? We'll see.

My favorite DE blade is a Polsilver SI because I find it both sharp enough and comfortable. Can my SR edges beat the Polsilver? We'll see.

Is a coticule edge sharper using my patented Dilucot Oil Honing method or should I go back to water? We'll see.

What kind of edge am I really getting with my Zulu Grey? Is my Double Duck Shorty really as sharp as I think it is? We'll see.

You see where this goes I'm sure.

Since you don't have one of these instruments (and I soon will) and since you are dying to know exactly how sharp the edges off your jnat are, and since I'm willing to provide both the data and supply the testing media, I want you to know that I'll be happy to hone one of my razors with the jnat you send me so that I can tell you whether jnat edges are really all that sharp.

Spoiler: Legal notice

I said nothing here to imply I would return your jnat, but maybe I will.

You won't get a deal like that just anywhere.

I'm sure this instrument won't answer every question anyone might have. It's not going to tell us if an edge is comfortable for example. Still, I know for sure I'm stoked about it.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[SliceOfLife]

Mine was here when I got home but I have a busy day tomorrow. Took 3 razors to it and can confirm, it likes a heavy hand on the strop. I’m going to have to shave with a razor honed how this thing likes and see how it feels. Quick and dirty results were basically the same as op pointed out ~30 on razors stropped heavy. I’ll get to tests and comparisons as soon as I have the time.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Mine was here when I got home but I have a busy day tomorrow. Took 3 razors to it and can confirm, it likes a heavy hand on the strop. I’m going to have to shave with a razor honed how this thing likes and see how it feels. Quick and dirty results were basically the same as op pointed out ~30 on razors stropped heavy. I’ll get to tests and comparisons as soon as I have the time.

30...That's a big time wow! If a Feather DE is a 28...

 

[ajduplessis]

I found it easier and a lot cheaper to just shave, I know within a stroke or 2 if she is sharp enough.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I found it easier and a lot cheaper to just shave, I know within a stroke or 2 if she is sharp enough.

You make a good point or two. Nobody has to have this instrument. That should be obvious and clear to everyone. If you can manage to get by without it you'll save some money for sure, or at least I would think so.

It is certainly simpler to just shave, but is it easier? Maybe. After all, even with this instrument, even knowing for sure via the objective evidence we should gleam using it exactly how sharp our edges are, we won't know until we shave with them how comfortable our edges are.

I'd suspect it's easier to determine sharpness with this device, but I've not used it yet. Maybe you have as you found it easier to just shave. If so, how'd using the instrument go for you?

This device looks to offer advantages to the obsessed, fanatical, nerdy, hobbyist honer. It might help an unseasoned honer like me not sure when to quit honing, sometimes not sure when the edge is sharp enough. Obviously, the shave test is the final exam for all edges, but the quizzes and midterm tests might be a lot of fun in an endeavor which is inherently enjoyable.

I'm interested in using the instrument during the honing process to guide me along and monitor the process and better inform what I am doing. I hope it helps me climb faster and further on the learning the curve. That's just me. No reason anybody else should have this device; you're exactly right about that.

I think the key word here is fun, but I've not even received my instrument yet so there's some wishful thinking at play. I could be wrong about the key word.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[stone and strop]

I'm interested in using the instrument during the honing process to guide me along and monitor the process and better inform what I am doing. I hope it helps me climb faster and further on the learning the curve.

No doubt this will be interesting! But.....
IMO - A microscope is the most useful tool you can own to help learn what is going on at the absolute edge of a razor.
Shaving confirms what you are seeing.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Speaking of a microscope... BE FOREWARNED this media chips razor edges. I did a test on six razors this morning on 8k and thuringian edges, every single one got a chip visible to the naked eye exactly where it contacted the media. Here's a closeup. We'll have to find an alternative media for use with razors.

Here's a picture of a big one.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Ordered some 4lb test monofilament fishing line overnight shipped. Hopefully that will fit and won't have this problem.

 

[stone and strop]

Ouch!
I'm sure this was designed for knives with a more stout edge but that sucks.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Even DE blades are in the 20+ degree range now, so they probably survive it. One blade did survive it last night... at least the chip isn't eye visible if its there, (not from the 7 day set). I'll do some edge angle calcs to see the difference.

7 day set is 13.8*, survivor is 14.4* So probably has more to do with steel hardness than angle at these low (<20*) angles. I'm gonna scope the survivor now to be sure Im not missing a chip.

 

[SliceOfLife]

It's there on the "survivor" just not deep enough to be naked eye visible.

Shame, this was gonna be my shave today.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Changed out the razors, changed out every stone in progression, changed every variable. This device chips razors. Now we gotta find a media that is usable with it that won't. I'm even trying thread, and several kinds of durable threads are creating chips. I think we're going to be looking for the softest material that has enough durability to go into the tension screws.

Chips are sizable enough to impact shave and remain after stropping.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Oh, my!

Mine's arrived and I'm afraid to use it.

 

[SliceOfLife]

It's ridiculous. I tried packing foam... PACKING FOAM chipped the razors. I think it's the hinging action putting strong lateral pressure right at the apex of the edge... I may try to rig up a way to go straight down.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Ok Here's my fix, confirmed working with the fishline, but probably fine with the media as well (both put similar chips in the razors before).
Don't use the magnetic hinge-brace thing.
Put a soft (I used tissue paper folded up a bunch of times) cover on the interior of the clamp to protect razor if you lose it.
Hold the razor with both hands and cut straight down.

No chips, cut right through nice and easy.

Also need to try normal vs heavy stropping as I think the heavy stropping being so favored may have been related to the device chipping the ever loving hell out of the razors.

But I gotta go to work now. Good luck all.



HAVING SAID THAT...

Cheaper alternative if you want to use my technique:

Buy the ATF-10G fixture (I think they're like $40, someone could probably rig up their own with a little work for <$10 though).
Buy monofilament fish line (or the media if it works) ($2-25).
Buy a 1 gram accurate scale that can export data or aim a camera at it and film the display during use (Not sure the cost here, but gotta be less than $200).


Frankly, I can't imagine that this thing doesn't chip finely ground knives as well. Questionable usefulness as they've designed it, but I think it may just work as advertised with my modified technique.

 

[bluesman 7]

A lot of volt meters will record max and min readings. I was thinking that a recording DVM and a load cell might be usable assuming that you already have the DVM. Purchasing the DVM for the purpose would put the cost above the 'Edge-On-Up'.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I was thinking that if you wanted to try using that fulcrum, the best option to try to avoid chips would be to ignore their advice to go as slowly as possible. You don’t want to chop of course, but I think the major issue is once the razor starts cutting into the media any slight shakes or shifts that will occur if you’re trying to be extremely deliberate just tear the edge up against the media that’s holding it. If you can manage a clean smooth slicing motion that is still slow enough to get an accurate reading, you may be able to avoid the chips. I’m curious to see if other people run into the same issues I’m having.

Also building a brace that holds the razor and lets you drop it straight down seems ideal. A vertical track and some form of clamp to hold the razor.

 

[FlScott]

I've only done a few tests so far and have not had a chip issue. Admittedly, when I did the testing I did not go as slow as they suggested. I've been pretty swamped so I haven't had time to put it through any rigorous test.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I've only done a few tests so far and have not had a chip issue. Admittedly, when I did the testing I did not go as slow as they suggested. I've been pretty swamped so I haven't had time to put it through any rigorous test.

I’m at work now wondering if that was the only problem. Sadly stuck here six more hrs before I can test more.