Strop balm has caused my strop to become tacky and makes the razor stick/drag. What do?

[DavidDavidson]

So, I got a new strop as a birthday gift and the suppliers (executive shaving) said that a strop balm should be used as it is "raw leather" (their words) so I went and bought a strop balm (the dovo stuff was far too expensive so I got 100mls of Haryali branded balm) and applied it as shown in a video online (they used a towel, I used my palm as the towel just seemed to soak up balm and stick to the strop, as well as cover it in lint) however now the strop is more supple but when I try to move a razor along it the razor just sticks or feels like its pulling the strop rather than gliding over it. I probably used too much as the postie left the package at the door so the strop balm hadn't come up to temperature so I put some pressure on it as it kind of softens under pressure like butter or lard or if you're being fancy; a thixotropic fluid. Anyway due to the fact that it probably hadn't thawed I rubbed some heat into it then found that if I pushed my finger down on it it would go much softer (like butter or lard, as mentioned) and could then be scooped up then rubbed into the strop. I used 2mls maybe 3 of the stuff on my strop (it is a very long wide strop, 8.5cm wide and a out 40cm long)
Did I just kill my strop? Is there a way to get the strop restored to working order? Shaving soap based lather on the strop maybe to help remove the oily, waxy strop balm? Or could I try getting some heat into the strop to see if the balm will permeate the leather.
Right now the strop looks a little darker and feels waxy and taxky, not soft and leathery.

 

[DavidDavidson]

Was going to edit but ran out of time. Gave it a really good rub down with a soft cloth and it feels better now, I tried it on my second razor and it isn't as grippy, but it isn't soft and glidey like new.

 

[Ridgeback]

I would say a good buffing by hand should remove excess balm.

 

[stone and strop]

Let it dry for 24 hrs then buff it with a clean piece of cotton.
Rub the crap out of it! If it is still tacky then try something else.

 

[DavidDavidson]

Thanks for the replies. They were quick and on point.
As said I did rub the crap out of it (I used the same cloth, it wasn't cotton but microfobre kitchen cloth (brand new out of the drawer) and it strops like a strop now, I can hear my razor 'singing' on it now like with a normal strop which it never did before and the lack of audible feedback caused me to put too much pressure on and lift the blade leading to a small nick (I'll include pics of the strop now but you probably won't see it as it is very, very small, maybe 3mm across) but now the strop seems to perform well and my razor now passes the HHT which it didn't after performing 10 laps right after treating the strop with the balm.
Only thing I'm slightly concerned about is the dark dots on the leather (it was originally all matte white) which I presume are bits of dust and lint trapped in the 'pores' of the leather. This wouldn't be a problem, would it? The blade was treated in a room free from any kind of hard or abrasive dust.
Pics related, does it look okay?

 

[alla2465]

This is why i NEVER use any products on my strop
I just rub it with my palm every day, that will give the leather everything it needs. Nothing more, nothing less.
No reason to do anything else imo.

 

[stone and strop]

Thanks for the replies. They were quick and on point.
As said I did rub the crap out of it (I used the same cloth, it wasn't cotton but microfobre kitchen cloth (brand new out of the drawer) and it strops like a strop now, I can hear my razor 'singing' on it now like with a normal strop which it never did before and the lack of audible feedback caused me to put too much pressure on and lift the blade leading to a small nick (I'll include pics of the strop now but you probably won't see it as it is very, very small, maybe 3mm across) but now the strop seems to perform well and my razor now passes the HHT which it didn't after performing 10 laps right after treating the strop with the balm.
Only thing I'm slightly concerned about is the dark dots on the leather (it was originally all matte white) which I presume are bits of dust and lint trapped in the 'pores' of the leather. This wouldn't be a problem, would it? The blade was treated in a room free from any kind of hard or abrasive dust.
Pics related, does it look okay? View attachment 1176231View attachment 1176230View attachment 1176231View attachment 1176230View attachment 1176231

What type of leather is that supposed to be?
Looks like hair left in the leather. If you have a loupe, look at it under magnification.

 

[DavidDavidson]

This is why i NEVER use any products on my strop
I just rub it with my palm every day, that will give the leather everything it needs. Nothing more, nothing less.
No reason to do anything else imo.

What type of strop is it? As I understand some of the more expensive ones are made of wax and oil impregnated leather and therefore will last a lifetime without any treatment. apparently according to executive shaving cheaper ones made from "raw leather" need some treatment and they recommend (the very pricey) Dovo strop balm.
It could just be that they're trying to sell extras, kind of like how you get asked if you want the magic water repelling spray when you buy a pair of boots, or maybe some leathers are different than other leathers.

 

[alla2465]

What type of strop is it? As I understand some of the more expensive ones are made of wax and oil impregnated leather and therefore will last a lifetime without any treatment. apparently according to executive shaving cheaper ones made from "raw leather" need some treatment and they recommend (the very pricey) Dovo strop balm.
It could just be that they're trying to sell extras, kind of like how you get asked if you want the magic water repelling spray when you buy a pair of boots, or maybe some leathers are different than other leathers.

It's a Kanayama

 

[DavidDavidson]

It's a Kanayama

Yeah, looking at the price range on Kanayama strops they're slmost certainly treated with some sort of special sauce, in comparison the strop I bought was on sale from £30 to about £23.
I couldn't ever picture myself spending so much (they retail for a few hundred, right?) on a strop since its eventually going to get nicked out of carelessness and knowing my luck that would be the day I first use it. Maybe if I was a professional barber but I think you have to use shavettes now because of HIV and Hepatitis.

 

[alla2465]

Yeah, looking at the price range on Kanayama strops they're slmost certainly treated with some sort of special sauce, in comparison the strop I bought was on sale from £30 to about £23.
I couldn't ever picture myself spending so much (they retail for a few hundred, right?) on a strop since its eventually going to get nicked out of carelessness and knowing my luck that would be the day I first use it. Maybe if I was a professional barber but I think you have to use shavettes now because of HIV and Hepatitis.

I paid like 150 USD for it, it's the 60K model
Before that I had cheaper strops, but I told myself I would get one good strop for the rest of my life when I was "ready"
The included instructions (which were in japanese) also said not to treat the leather with anything and just rub it with your palm.
After trying this strop, there is no way I could use a cheap strop again
Cheap strops are great to learn on, but once you get good at stropping, I would highly recommend upgrading to something better that you can keep for the rest of your life.
1-200 dollars for a strop that will last for the rest of your life is not that expensive.

 

[Tony Miller]

I suggest nothing more than palm rubbing even on "raw" leather strops. With experience and discretion one can very, very lightly apply Neat's Foot Oil if in a super dry climate but less is more. Neat's Foot Oil in the palm of the hand, rub hands together to barely leave a faint film of oil on the hand, then rub the strop, repeat as needed to slowly build up the oil. Easy to add oil, hard to remove when overdone. I still use nothing more than palm rubbing on my personal strops of "raw" veg tanned steer or horsehide. Most bridle, latigo and oil tanned leather have enough fats and oils they will never need anything and for many neither will plain veg tanned leather in my opinion.

Other have different methods and that is great but most of those have come from years of their own experience and experiments and what works for them is great.

I think a commong trait with many beginners is they get something new, are excited and want to go all out and make it "better" or "perfect". I always feel it is best to just try things the way they come, see how they work for you, then and only then, try improvements based on specific shortcomings.

 

[DavidDavidson]

@Tony Miller
Hit the nail on the head with "making it perfect" I was also following the manufacturers I structions but when the manufacturers are recommending you buy product B for their product A it may just be to get you to buy into something.
That said the leather seems to have absorbed the balm quite a bit now and the buffing with a cloth has left it smooth though it doesn't quite have the almost suede/velour like texture to it where it would look different if you rubbed it by hand one way however I've never heard of strops behaving like that.
One thing I have noticed was that the razor gives much more audible feedback when stropping with it now, before it was almost silent and that was very strange to me, now it 'sings' as I make strokes. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

Had a shave there and the shave felt better though this might just be to better technique as I've just gotten back into using straight razors after about 4 years of not using them. I do have a bit of razor burn and one small nick (right under my jawbone, hardest part for me to shave, especially on my left hand side as my hand blocks the mirror) I probably need to invest in a bigger shaving mirror as 6*6" (15*15cm) is quite small. Granted the lack of blood spots could be due to this being my third shave since I last honed my razor.

 

[Tomo]

It's a Kanayama

Ouch. That hurts even more.

 

[Slash McCoy]

A Kanayama should be good for years without any treatment other than hand rubbing and regular use. That is horse shell cordoban, a very very special sort of leather. The finish on the Kanayama is very smooth and glassy. And yet it has a soft buttery feel to it when stropping. There really is nothing you can do to improve it, and a million ways to make it anywhere from not quite as good to horrible.

Eventually the goop will all go away. You could speed up the process by packing it in kitty litter or paper towels to soak out the excess oil, then clean it with saddle soap and a clean cotton rag. But if you just rub it and use it, it will recover in time.

A guy goes to his doctor once and says, "Doc, it hurts when I do THIS".
Doctor says, "Well, then don't do THAT."

The moral is, don't make the same mistake twice. Keep your leather strops, especially the Kanayama, nice and clean. Cowhide strops, add a few drops of neatsfoot every year, rubbed in with the palm of your hand. That's about it. If you make a new strop, you need a good bit more, depending on the leather. But not for ongoing maintenance. Sometimes the simple approach, not doing THAT, is the best way to get good results.

 

[DavidDavidson]

A Kanayama should be good for years without any treatment other than hand rubbing and regular use. That is horse shell cordoban, a very very special sort of leather. The finish on the Kanayama is very smooth and glassy. And yet it has a soft buttery feel to it when stropping. There really is nothing you can do to improve it, and a million ways to make it anywhere from not quite as good to horrible.

Eventually the goop will all go away. You could speed up the process by packing it in kitty litter or paper towels to soak out the excess oil, then clean it with saddle soap and a clean cotton rag. But if you just rub it and use it, it will recover in time.

A guy goes to his doctor once and says, "Doc, it hurts when I do THIS".
Doctor says, "Well, then don't do THAT."

The moral is, don't make the same mistake twice. Keep your leather strops, especially the Kanayama, nice and clean. Cowhide strops, add a few drops of neatsfoot every year, rubbed in with the palm of your hand. That's about it. If you make a new strop, you need a good bit more, depending on the leather. But not for ongoing maintenance. Sometimes the simple approach, not doing THAT, is the best way to get good results.

I think you've got me confused with Alla2465, the strop I have isn't anywhere near as special as a Kanayama strop, it's a basic cowhide strop that cost me less than £30, great as I'm getting back into straight razor shaving after a few years. I still have the muscle memory for stripping but only just and as such have already nicked my strop (though the nick is so tiny you probably couldn't see it on the picture of the whole strop I uploaded, unless you look carefully at the top right of the strop, under the maker's mark. I assume this is because I was putting loads of pressure on the strop as I wasn't getting the audible (or tactile) feedback from the strop that I'm used to.
For my strop buffing seemed to remove the excess balm and the rest seems to have soaked onto the leather. Kind of wish I'd known about neatsfoot oil however. It definitely sounds like the better option compared to this sticky tallow like substance.
That said this may work well in combination with neatsfoot oil (just how thick and viscous is neatsfoot?) if neatsfoot is a fairly thin oil it would probably remove any excess of this balm, or applying neatsfoot and balm might make it easier to wipe the neatsfoot off.

A quick question to everyone else. Are abrasive compounds any use? I know a strop that's been treated with one can't be untreated so would I be better off just doing a very quick and basic hone on my coticule rather than getting another strop and an abrasive to rub onto it?
Also does a straight razor edge have to be a certain degree angle, or does it matter if the razor has quite a whole lot of edge bevel? I ended up chipping my razor when I got given it years ago (vintage solingen) and had to hone the chip out leaving a lot of bevel exposed in the middle of the blade.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Oh okay. Did you try saddle soap?

Honing, like stropping, is done with the spine of the razor on the media. The spine is your honing angle guide. You absolutely must not raise the spine while the edge is still on the hone. So you really have for all practical purposes, very little choice in your bevel angle in normal honing.

You should NOT put any abrasive on your regular hanging strop. It defeats the whole purpose. If you want to use an abrasive, I suggest you read this thread:
(1) How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop | Badger & Blade

Read it beginning to end. Do it exactly the way the thread says do it. That is very important, particularly in light of your relative lack of experience. But if you do it correctly the results can be quite astonishing.

In fact you should do a lot of reading, before you touch razor to stone, to film, or to balsa. Make sure you are following a path well trodden by those who know what they are doing. If you freestyle it, it will end badly. Honing is not something you can do randomly and have any great success. In fact you can ruin a razor easily enough.

Rule number 1. Or is it 101? I don't know. Anyway don't chip your razor.

By honing the chip out, do you mean concentrating on the area of the chip? That would be quite wrong indeed.

Obviously you want to learn and to grow into the world of straight shaving. Without motivation it is hopeless. All the hurdles you will encounter will be only stumbling blocks for you, not barriers like for someone whose heart is not in it. You can do this but you got to earn your chops, do your homework, practice, and strive always to do a little better. Lots of guys here who are willing to help but their advice might at times seem sarcastic, or disrespectful, or argumentative, or patronizing or paternalistic or overly critical or just plain wrong. But they all mean well, and even if they don't, you can still glean some useful knowledge that you can put to work preparing, maintaining, and using your razors. This is the right place for you to be, and it's free. Just remember, do stuff the way everyone else does it, and you won't be far from wrong.

 

[alla2465]

Ouch. That hurts even more.

Don't worry I'm not the OP, my kanayama is good.

 

[LJS]

This is why everyone will say never add oils or wax of any type and I don’t blame them. Such a fine line of perfect (which is almost unnoticeable) and too much which is a soggy sticky mess.

Hard to get it out of leather really. Wrap it in towels or paper towels and change daily might help draw it out. I actually read some Japanese info suggesting to soak in gasoline to get it out - yikes! I would NOT do that by the way and recommend new strop over that extreme.

Really good leather will require almost nothing. No oils and little working.

Live and learn. Try to soak the oil out is all you can really do now.

 

[DavidDavidson]

Oh okay. Did you try saddle soap?

Honing, like stropping, is done with the spine of the razor on the media. The spine is your honing angle guide. You absolutely must not raise the spine while the edge is still on the hone. So you really have for all practical purposes, very little choice in your bevel angle in normal honing.

You should NOT put any abrasive on your regular hanging strop. It defeats the whole purpose. If you want to use an abrasive, I suggest you read this thread:
(1) How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop | Badger & Blade

Read it beginning to end. Do it exactly the way the thread says do it. That is very important, particularly in light of your relative lack of experience. But if you do it correctly the results can be quite astonishing.

In fact you should do a lot of reading, before you touch razor to stone, to film, or to balsa. Make sure you are following a path well trodden by those who know what they are doing. If you freestyle it, it will end badly. Honing is not something you can do randomly and have any great success. In fact you can ruin a razor easily enough.

Rule number 1. Or is it 101? I don't know. Anyway don't chip your razor.

By honing the chip out, do you mean concentrating on the area of the chip? That would be quite wrong indeed.

Obviously you want to learn and to grow into the world of straight shaving. Without motivation it is hopeless. All the hurdles you will encounter will be only stumbling blocks for you, not barriers like for someone whose heart is not in it. You can do this but you got to earn your chops, do your homework, practice, and strive always to do a little better. Lots of guys here who are willing to help but their advice might at times seem sarcastic, or disrespectful, or argumentative, or patronizing or paternalistic or overly critical or just plain wrong. But they all mean well, and even if they don't, you can still glean some useful knowledge that you can put to work preparing, maintaining, and using your razors. This is the right place for you to be, and it's free. Just remember, do stuff the way everyone else does it, and you won't be far from wrong.

I'm not as inexperienced as you might think, however I'm far from being as experienced as I want to be. I've a lot of experience in sharpening blades, though that would be with a lansky system which involves moving the hone over the blade and not the blade over the hone. I have watched and read a lot into honing straight razors and as I said, I took a 3 year break.
That chip in the razor (I'll include pictures of the razor) happened when I first got given the razor (most people here don't understand how good a straight razor is and as such undervalue them greatly) and bought a hone, I was honing the blade and rinsing the excess cotocule mud off the razor in a bowl (I now know I should have used a towel) anyway I was talking or not paying attention and the razor edge ended up landing right on the ceramic rim of the bowl. Lesson learned I guess. Now I won't let my razor anywhere near ceramic or any material harder than it is. I followed an online guide (or advice here) to, I think, I've not exactly got it committed to memory first put the blade edge down on a hone and rub the majority of the chip out, then re-bevel the razor as is necessary. Obviously I didn't hone only the chip out as that just creates a bigger curved chip and a straight razor which isn't straight. The chip did hone out but the bevel angle is much shallower than when I first got the razor as the bevel angle follows with the width of the spine, which wears down as you hone it. Right now the razor is perfectly servicible and gave a great shave last night, though I did miss a spot as I was very concentrated on getting either side of my chin sonoletely smooth against the grain and there isn't much skin to pull on there that's easy to reach.

As for talk of using an abrasive on a strop, I would have gone for a second, low cost strop to add abrasive to, however your diamond paste in balsa method.

Here's the photos of the razor. Maybe you'll see what I mean about bevel angle from them. From sharpening knives for years I know that a shallower bevel (more acute) angle tends to lead to a sharper edge but one which is less hard wearing and more prone to chipping or turning whereas a wider (less acute) angle is less prone to chipping or turning but often isn't as sharp. Not sure if that carries over to straight razors however.

Quick edit: Was speaking to my mum there and as she does horse riding she has neatsfoot oil, however when I mentioned it being used on the strop she said it would ruin a strop and that its 'very strong' are there different grades? Or is she just totally wrong.