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Straight razor forging

I was bored the other day and as things are these days, when you have nothing to do, you can always find something interesting on YouTube. I have a wide variety of interests, and I find it interesting to learn something new through other's experience.

I love watching forge masters at work, making knives and swords, one of my favourite series to watch on tv is Forged In Fire. I have gained so much understanding about the process that I often find myself shouting at the contestants when they are making, what I would consider stupid decisions. Typically it's easy to criticise, never having done any forging myself. I know that in reality it would be much more difficult to do, especially under pressure like they do.

So to get to the point, I searched for videos about forging razors, and I was really disappointed. Very few videos on the subject. Apart from the few masters like Jerry Stark, it would seem that most of these smiths have very little understanding about razors.

Just watching them, it was clear to me that even while they are masters of their craft, in general, straight razors are in a class of their own.

Is it a lost art, bound to disappear soon?

I hope not!
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
I was bored the other day and as things are these days, when you have nothing to do, you can always find something interesting on YouTube. I have a wide variety of interests, and I find it interesting to learn something new through other's experience.

I love watching forge masters at work, making knives and swords, one of my favourite series to watch on tv is Forged In Fire. I have gained so much understanding about the process that I often find myself shouting at the contestants when they are making, what I would consider stupid decisions. Typically it's easy to criticise, never having done any forging myself. I know that in reality it would be much more difficult to do, especially under pressure like they do.

So to get to the point, I searched for videos about forging razors, and I was really disappointed. Very few videos on the subject. Apart from the few masters like Jerry Stark, it would seem that most of these smiths have very little understanding about razors.

Just watching them, it was clear to me that even while they are masters of their craft, in general, straight razors are in a class of their own.

Is it a lost art, bound to disappear soon?

I hope not!
I misread the thread title as "Straight Razor foraging". I thought it going to be about yard sales, eBay searches and Etsy finds, with a few antique shops thrown in for free. ;)
 
This thread makes me wonder what makes Gold Dollar still exist in the system. As in, they must make profits to continue making them.

Experienced members of the wet shaving forums know the art of taming one. Removing metal , shoulder, spine thinning etc. But with most global videos of barber shaving videos show use of half de blade shavettes, what are their target markers?

Where is the demand for these coming from ?

How are those buyers making these in to usable shavers ?

That would make an interesting documentary perhaps. At the price point they sell at and the labor involved, to make decent profits to make the product viable, they would have to sell them in large volumes in multiples of 1000 pieces per month.
 
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rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Ningbo Gold Dollar Razors & Scissors Manufacturing Co. Ltd. don't just make GD straight razors. They also manufacture many other cutting implements. Their market for SRs is ¼ of the world's male population plus men living outside of the PRC. They are the main and only major manufacturer of SRs in the PRC. Their SRs are made in batches, it's not a continual process.

If just 0.1% (that's 1 in 1,000) of the shaving males in the PRC (only) wanted a SR, 1,200,000 would be required. That's a big market.
 
This thread makes me wonder what makes Gold Dollar still exist in the system. As in, they must make profits to continue making them.

Experienced members of the wet shaving forums know the art of taming one. Removing metal , shoulder, spine thinning etc. But with most global videos of barber shaving videos show use of half de blade shavettes, what are their target markers?

Where is the demand for these coming from ?

How are those buyers making these in to usable shavers ?

That would make an interesting documentary perhaps. At the price point they sell at and the labor involved, to make decent profits to make the product viable, they would have to sell them in large volumes in multiples of 1000 pieces per month.
Yeah that is what was so surprising to me - that a smith that clearly knows what he is doing in terms of knives, swords, axes, ect, doesn’t understand straight razor geometry.

That leads me to think that it is not something that is, in general terms, popular to do, otherwise they would have known better.

The other thought that crossed my mind is that people think a straight razor is just a hyper-sharp mini knife. We know it’s not. If you don’t make it the way it’s supposed to be, it will never be a good shaver.

Gold Dollar’s business plan remains a mystery to me. Clearly focus is on selling as much as possible as cheaply as possible. As pointed out, their market is huge, so if one in a thousand buy a razor, even just to try, it may be enough to be profitable.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
This thread makes me wonder what makes Gold Dollar still exist in the system. As in, they must make profits to continue making them.

Experienced members of the wet shaving forums know the art of taming one. Removing metal , shoulder, spine thinning etc. But with most global videos of barber shaving videos show use of half de blade shavettes, what are their target markers?

Where is the demand for these coming from ?

How are those buyers making these in to usable shavers ?

That would make an interesting documentary perhaps. At the price point they sell at and the labor involved, to make decent profits to make the product viable, they would have to sell them in large volumes in multiples of 1000 pieces per month.
GD razors exist because the Chinese can mass produce them very cheaply. A good new razor from a Japanese, European, or American maker will cost at least $140. A GD66 can be had for about $4 if you shop around a bit. Significant price difference, wouldn't you say? Even a good vintage razor is going to cost you about $20+, and the sky is the limit. Curious wannabes are going to pick what... the $140 razor? No, but maybe something like one of the horrible Dovo entry level razors. A "used" one? Ick. Remember, these are guys who know nothing about straight razors. Ah. Here is one for $7.99 on AliExpress. I'll get that one. And if he is lucky, the one he picked out is a Gold Dollar. Of course no matter what he gets, he will soon discover that it won't shave because it isn't sharp. That's another topic. But maybe he can find a decent honemeister selling the GD, shave ready, for about what a not shave ready vintage razor in good condition will go for. (and remember, he probably has a thing about shaving with some dead stranger's old razor anyway!) If he is unlucky, he gets a piece of Chinese or Pakistani junk, not fit to open the mail with. But the GD brand is well known, praised, vilified, disregarded, recommended, but never forgotten. They have an apparent extensive product line. They are cheap as chips when bought by the hundred from the factory. They sell hundred lots. They sell thousand lots. They also make scissors and other cutlery. It is a fairly solid business with a large market share, especially in China itself, but also online, where everyone wants to try this or that but won't spend the money or don't have the money to go top shelf. Look at all the "Damascus" knives on fleabay. AFAIK, there has never actually been a real Damascus steel knife sold on fleabay. Even many of the PWS steel knives are actually fake PWS, etched to resemble PWS, and made out of junk refrigerators and salvaged pipe, rebar, and maybe a leaf spring or two, so fakes of fakes. The ones that sell are the cheap ones. Price matters, and when the buyer does not know the product, the only things that matter are "kewl" appearance, flashy marketing, and most importantly, price. There was a brand called ZeePK that made razors out of truly awful steel, and they (the company/brand) lasted for years, in spite of the product being totally useless. If you looked for the cheapest straight razor, that's what you found, so they sold. GD came on the scene and being NOT totally useless and even cheaper than the ZP razors, absorbed their market share. I did run across some ZeePK razors with Solingen stamped on the tang, probably cheaply bought blanks that nobody else wanted, and they were hone-able and usable, but definitely still lower quality than the GD razors, or their poor cousins, the Gold Monkeys. GD came in as a juggernaut, with a usable razor (once honed) and an unbeatable price, even by RSO's.

GD has a viable business model. Their product is pretty shoddy but still usable. Wholesale prices are low enough to resell to first world buyers at a high percentage of markup, or to improve (honing) for value added, and still sell at a fair price. GD is here and isn't going away any time soon.

You know a brand has "arrived" when someone is selling counterfeits. There have actually been reports of fake GDs out there, particularly on Ali Express.

I would be surprised of GD doesn't sell 250k razors a year. Do you know of anyone who can top that? I sold well over 300 myself, not really trying, and had to keep raising my prices to slow down the orders to a volume I was comfortable with and had time to manage. I don't do that anymore, no time for that. But it can be done, just saying, and I would love to see someone else selling Method honed Gold Dollars. It would bring a lot of new blood into the community, and keep the curious noobs from getting discouraged, particularly those with minimum wage level jobs. The guy mowing lawns or unloading trucks to make ends meet in college might be a lawyer or executive or business owner making bank, and buying fine razors, 30 years from now. Get the noobs in, and keep them in. It is good for the community.

So, back to your questions...
This thread makes me wonder what makes Gold Dollar still exist in the system. As in, they must make profits to continue making them.
Above! Believe me, they make plenty of profit. They totally dominate their price bracket. Titan dips down into the upper level of GD pricing, with their cheapest offering, but really, when it comes to the $20 and down category, GD has no competition. They make pretty good profit per razor, and they sell a LOT of them.

Experienced members of the wet shaving forums know the art of taming one. Removing metal , shoulder, spine thinning etc. But with most global videos of barber shaving videos show use of half de blade shavettes, what are their target markers?
Many places no longer allow barbers to shave with a straight razor. Many barbers are paranoid about being sued or accused of spreading diseases. Some can't be bothered with honing. Most, do not know how, some can't even strop properly. Barber shaves are rare, now, though they were common when I was a kid. Shavettes are simple, and disposable blades make hygienic practices very easy. Even so, few first world barbers would bother with a GD. They would go with a "respected" brand like Boker or Dovo, knowing that it is after all a tool for making money and not a simple personal expense. Yes, an unmodified GD kept very sharp, could be used in a barbershop for shaves, but most barbers would rather that the customer sees them using a famous brand, not an infamous one.

Where is the demand for these coming from ?
You make it and list it, and someone will buy it. You see it enough, you will think it must be worth buying or nobody would be able to sell it. Demand comes from internet word of mouth, attention given to the brand on these and other forums, and simple exposure. Google will throw a pic or two in your ad feed, if you seem to be in a viable demographic.

How are those buyers making these in to usable shavers ?
Some are learning online. Some are sending them to others to hone. Some are NOT making them usable, and giving up, but the sale has already been made! SCORE for GD LOL!

That would make an interesting documentary perhaps. At the price point they sell at and the labor involved, to make decent profits to make the product viable, they would have to sell them in large volumes in multiples of 1000 pieces per month.
LOL I am pretty sure that is way less than what they actually sell!
 
Speaking of Gold Dollar, I've been seeing this model in the usual places lately at a higher price point.
71jBv8RkcML._SX466_.jpg



Apparently one of the selling points is this:
"NO STABILIZER :More and more people are starting to like straight razors without stabilizers, because it not only looks more beautiful, but more importantly, it is easier to sharpen and is suitable for newbie"

(emphasis is mine)
 
GD razors exist because the Chinese can mass produce them very cheaply. A good new razor from a Japanese, European, or American maker will cost at least $140. A GD66 can be had for about $4 if you shop around a bit. Significant price difference, wouldn't you say? Even a good vintage razor is going to cost you about $20+, and the sky is the limit. Curious wannabes are going to pick what... the $140 razor? No, but maybe something like one of the horrible Dovo entry level razors. A "used" one? Ick. Remember, these are guys who know nothing about straight razors. Ah. Here is one for $7.99 on AliExpress. I'll get that one. And if he is lucky, the one he picked out is a Gold Dollar. Of course no matter what he gets, he will soon discover that it won't shave because it isn't sharp. That's another topic. But maybe he can find a decent honemeister selling the GD, shave ready, for about what a not shave ready vintage razor in good condition will go for. (and remember, he probably has a thing about shaving with some dead stranger's old razor anyway!) If he is unlucky, he gets a piece of Chinese or Pakistani junk, not fit to open the mail with. But the GD brand is well known, praised, vilified, disregarded, recommended, but never forgotten. They have an apparent extensive product line. They are cheap as chips when bought by the hundred from the factory. They sell hundred lots. They sell thousand lots. They also make scissors and other cutlery. It is a fairly solid business with a large market share, especially in China itself, but also online, where everyone wants to try this or that but won't spend the money or don't have the money to go top shelf. Look at all the "Damascus" knives on fleabay. AFAIK, there has never actually been a real Damascus steel knife sold on fleabay. Even many of the PWS steel knives are actually fake PWS, etched to resemble PWS, and made out of junk refrigerators and salvaged pipe, rebar, and maybe a leaf spring or two, so fakes of fakes. The ones that sell are the cheap ones. Price matters, and when the buyer does not know the product, the only things that matter are "kewl" appearance, flashy marketing, and most importantly, price. There was a brand called ZeePK that made razors out of truly awful steel, and they (the company/brand) lasted for years, in spite of the product being totally useless. If you looked for the cheapest straight razor, that's what you found, so they sold. GD came on the scene and being NOT totally useless and even cheaper than the ZP razors, absorbed their market share. I did run across some ZeePK razors with Solingen stamped on the tang, probably cheaply bought blanks that nobody else wanted, and they were hone-able and usable, but definitely still lower quality than the GD razors, or their poor cousins, the Gold Monkeys. GD came in as a juggernaut, with a usable razor (once honed) and an unbeatable price, even by RSO's.

GD has a viable business model. Their product is pretty shoddy but still usable. Wholesale prices are low enough to resell to first world buyers at a high percentage of markup, or to improve (honing) for value added, and still sell at a fair price. GD is here and isn't going away any time soon.

You know a brand has "arrived" when someone is selling counterfeits. There have actually been reports of fake GDs out there, particularly on Ali Express.

I would be surprised of GD doesn't sell 250k razors a year. Do you know of anyone who can top that? I sold well over 300 myself, not really trying, and had to keep raising my prices to slow down the orders to a volume I was comfortable with and had time to manage. I don't do that anymore, no time for that. But it can be done, just saying, and I would love to see someone else selling Method honed Gold Dollars. It would bring a lot of new blood into the community, and keep the curious noobs from getting discouraged, particularly those with minimum wage level jobs. The guy mowing lawns or unloading trucks to make ends meet in college might be a lawyer or executive or business owner making bank, and buying fine razors, 30 years from now. Get the noobs in, and keep them in. It is good for the community.

So, back to your questions...

Above! Believe me, they make plenty of profit. They totally dominate their price bracket. Titan dips down into the upper level of GD pricing, with their cheapest offering, but really, when it comes to the $20 and down category, GD has no competition. They make pretty good profit per razor, and they sell a LOT of them.


Many places no longer allow barbers to shave with a straight razor. Many barbers are paranoid about being sued or accused of spreading diseases. Some can't be bothered with honing. Most, do not know how, some can't even strop properly. Barber shaves are rare, now, though they were common when I was a kid. Shavettes are simple, and disposable blades make hygienic practices very easy. Even so, few first world barbers would bother with a GD. They would go with a "respected" brand like Boker or Dovo, knowing that it is after all a tool for making money and not a simple personal expense. Yes, an unmodified GD kept very sharp, could be used in a barbershop for shaves, but most barbers would rather that the customer sees them using a famous brand, not an infamous one.


You make it and list it, and someone will buy it. You see it enough, you will think it must be worth buying or nobody would be able to sell it. Demand comes from internet word of mouth, attention given to the brand on these and other forums, and simple exposure. Google will throw a pic or two in your ad feed, if you seem to be in a viable demographic.


Some are learning online. Some are sending them to others to hone. Some are NOT making them usable, and giving up, but the sale has already been made! SCORE for GD LOL!


LOL I am pretty sure that is way less than what they actually sell!
That's an encyclopedia of an answer. Thank you kind sir, I tip my hat in respect to all the perspectives to my myopic guesstimate or how large a market exists out there.

Especially the part of the budget conscious wannabe first time straight razor users. I removed the power of the internet and youtube from the equation, which is a big miss.

If not for the internet, youtube and shave forums I might have been happily scraping my face with multi blade razors in my part of the world, and here I am connected , learning to hone and shaving.with a straight razor.
 
Speaking of Gold Dollar, I've been seeing this model in the usual places lately at a higher price point.


Apparently one of the selling points is this:
"NO STABILIZER :More and more people are starting to like straight razors without stabilizers, because it not only looks more beautiful, but more importantly, it is easier to sharpen and is suitable for newbie"

(emphasis is mine)
Very interesting. A welcome trend. But...isn't that a stabilizer in that pic? Just a shortened one?
 
Speaking of Gold Dollar, I've been seeing this model in the usual places lately at a higher price point.
View attachment 1480712


Apparently one of the selling points is this:
"NO STABILIZER :More and more people are starting to like straight razors without stabilizers, because it not only looks more beautiful, but more importantly, it is easier to sharpen and is suitable for newbie"

(emphasis is mine)
Any links of those usual places you can publish ? Especially if it's aliexpress ?
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Could you forge a SR from used DE blades?
I wouldn't bother trying, myself. You would have a lot of impurities. And with 1095, 1086, O1, etc which are very easy to work with, available so cheaply, you wouldn't be saving a ton of money or anything like that. I am sure someone has tried, probably many guys have tried, and if it worked it would be a thing, sort of like making razors out of old files. (Which BTW doesn't work with modern files as most of them are just case hardened.)

COULD you do it? To win a bet, maybe. I don't think it would be much of a razor. You would do better to stick with an alloy that has a proven track record and not try to use salvaged metal.
 
I wouldn't bother trying, myself. You would have a lot of impurities. And with 1095, 1086, O1, etc which are very easy to work with, available so cheaply, you wouldn't be saving a ton of money or anything like that. I am sure someone has tried, probably many guys have tried, and if it worked it would be a thing, sort of like making razors out of old files. (Which BTW doesn't work with modern files as most of them are just case hardened.)

COULD you do it? To win a bet, maybe. I don't think it would be much of a razor. You would do better to stick with an alloy that has a proven track record and not try to use salvaged metal.
Yes, impurities, I can immagine all the soap and skin residue...I forgot about that
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Yes, impurities, I can immagine all the soap and skin residue...I forgot about that
Coatings, mostly. Plating and coatings. Platinum, teflon, etc. You can wash soap and skin debris off easily enough, and even automate the process so just plain filth and dirt would not have to be an issue.

There is also the question of whether the steel itself is suitable for making a blade that isn't a flat wafer. Is it? Or not? I don't know. What is the carbon content? Any alloying elements? Just get a bar of 1095 and download some user/maker data so you know temps and soak times for annealing, normalizing, hardening, and tempering, and do it the same way thousands of other home workshop razorsmiths do it successfully. Most random experiments do not work very well. Exactly duplicating the methods already used successfully is generally successful.
 
May I chip in with some Chinese perspective? I have been a long-time lurker. In Chinese forums (Baidu), most users are collectors who are a little bit older with a bit more money, therefore, they appreciate things that are more expensive. Most Chinese care about social status that's why you see a significant percentage of luxury goods bought by the Chinese. So in Chinese forums majority will be praises for imports like DOVO, Boker, Zwilling, Filarmoncia (fap) and Theiers Issard. Like you don't hear many people talk about their Prius when everyone else is talking about Porsche 911 and Lamborghini. I think Gold Dollar is still in business from the volume of sales they make and affordable wages, but I don't think this will last for long. Once middle class grows, the government attacks them on reducing waste, and older generation dies out. The younger generation is all about fast and easy electric shavers. @Slash McCoy how much do you offer to sell one of those gold dollars? I need one for practice. I have links for the Chinese forums and shaving suggestion website and I don't know if I should post them here. *edited for grammar*
 
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I am so happy to see the gold dollar competition every year in this forum though. It is so amazing and I wonder if the company knows about it.
 
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