Stone ID Help Pls

[cotedupy]

I know, I know... this is meant to be my game innit. But when it comes to Japanese synths, especially the higher grits, I’m a bit lost.

I found these three at work today, caked in black dirt and ‘mystery spills’. This was the cleanest:

But after a fair bit of atoma-ing, they now look like this:

The one on the left is a pretty mint green colour. With speckles. I’ve not tried any of these yet, but from the feel of it this is quite a fine stone, high 1000s I’d guess (though my famous and much-admired ‘tooth test’ is less accurate when it comes to synths. Or maybe I just haven’t got my tooth in yet. ). Glued into a plastic holder which might help with id-ing. Could it be the Suehiro G-8 I’ve been wanting to try for a very long time?

Middle stone isn’t actually pink like it looks above, it’s more custard yellow like a typical coti colour. No speckles really, but it is cracked. This stone is coarser - early to mid 1000s at a guess. Glued onto a wooden dai. Under an Atoma this stone is quite a lot harder than the other two.

Last stone is a kinda light-greeny-yellowy-mustardy colour. With speckles. Feels back to being quite fine. Also glued on a wood dai, though I dunno if these wood dai are original, I assume not (?).

 

[Christian1212]

I think the left one is a naniwa and the right one maybe as well. Unsure of the middle

 

[cotedupy]

I think the left one is a naniwa

Ah yes, you’re right, thank you. (I knew I’d seen that style plastic dai before!)

From the feel when lapping I’d guess it’s a SS, but I’m sure all will be revealed when I actually get round to trying it out later...

 

[cotedupy]

This looks about right for the first I think:

And another emphatic victory for the tooth test!

 

[DrStrange]

My yellowist Naniwa is a 2000.

My beigeist is a 3000.

And the 400, the 1000, and the 10,000 are all slightly different shades of green.

 

[Empire straights]

@cotedupy I will only help you if you can Id this barbers hone(and the ark I believe) from one of the bays notoriously horrendous pictures! Then and only then! (I can't help you, I know nothing about synths) there's some stamp on the last picture but i can't make it out.

 

[ables]

@cotedupy I will only help you if you can Id this barbers hone(and the ark I believe) from one of the bays notoriously horrendous pictures! Then and only then! (I can't help you, I know nothing about synths) there's some stamp on the last picture but i can't make it out. View attachment 1657108View attachment 1657109View attachment 1657110

i believe that is a Reliance hone!

 

[Empire straights]

i believe that is a Reliance hone!

I will search that, but any other info you know about them? I bid on it because I want to try out a barber hone on an axe. I feel like a double side one will have something similar to an india and fine steel away, then some to smooth it. I didn't really plan on shaving off it but I figured tools and knives..

 

[Empire straights]

@cotedupy sorry I don't know about your synths, I can't to this thread too learn though. More jobs I do the more those glass and Japanese waterstones start looking good. For quick work if nothing else. It's why I bought those India combos. I've yet to put axe to the quick cut.

 

[ables]

I will search that, but any other info you know about them? I bid on it because I want to try out a barber hone on an axe. I feel like a double side one will have something similar to an india and fine steel away, then some to smooth it. I didn't really plan on shaving off it but I figured tools and knives..

I have one around here, I never shaved off it however. It struck me as a pretty typical barber hone similar to the dubl duck hone. It should be an American hone company hone, and they made the best products in my experience. The one in that photo seems to be in perfect condition which is the most important part for an old barber synth hones, so I expect it will function just fine and you might try it out for a razor. Both sides are much finer than any india stone, so an india stone then the barber hone will get an axe very sharp.

 

[cotedupy]

i believe that is a Reliance hone!

Top niche BH knowledge Able!

More jobs I do the more those glass and Japanese waterstones start looking good. For quick work if nothing else.

The Shaptons, both Pro and Glass, are very impressive and mostly really quite quick. There are a couple of others I slightly prefer for kitchen knives specifically (Cerax, King Deluxe), but the two Shapton ranges are easily the best all-rounders in terms of Japanese synths imo. They're also SnG and seriously undishy.

 

[cotedupy]

Well if it looks like a Superstone, and it feels like a Superstone, and it loads-almost-instantly-without-doing-any-meaningful-abrasion like a Superstone... then it's probably a Superstone.

The green one is, without a shadow of a doubt an SS10K.

Superstones do have one redeeming and quite fun feature though, in that they will polish anything to mirror. This is a wrought clad kiridashi, and the SS10K will take the *hagane* to pretty much full mirror. And all Superstones do this, a 3k finish would look pretty much the same just with a handful of deeper scratches. No other Japanese synths really act like this, to this extent.

 

[Gamma]

I will search that, but any other info you know about them? I bid on it because I want to try out a barber hone on an axe. I feel like a double side one will have something similar to an india and fine steel away, then some to smooth it. I didn't really plan on shaving off it but I figured tools and knives..

Ables called it, American Hone Co. Reliance. May have been re-branded at some point though, like the Frictionites were.
Average b-hone for razors. Was sold as a dry hone, for whatever that's worth. The binders in them get sketchy, I would avoid hot water. Lapping them can prove to be problematic once they start getting weird. Similar to a Lithide in that way.

if its a racing axe, a lot depends on steel and existing edge. But a Swaty surfaced to 100 grit on one side and polished on the other can be interesting for a high polish edge, even with a non-competition axe. Too fine for my normal needs though.
The small DMT 'cards' work wonders. Combo Carborundums are cheap as chips and are pretty good. There's a round 'axe' version out there, usually cheap too.

 

[Empire straights]

Ables called it, American Hone Co. Reliance. May have been re-branded at some point though, like the Frictionites were.
Average b-hone for razors. Was sold as a dry hone, for whatever that's worth. The binders in them get sketchy, I would avoid hot water. Lapping them can prove to be problematic once they start getting weird. Similar to a Lithide in that way.

if its a racing axe, a lot depends on steel and existing edge. But a Swaty surfaced to 100 grit on one side and polished on the other can be interesting for a high polish edge, even with a non-competition axe. Too fine for my normal needs though.
The small DMT 'cards' work wonders. Combo Carborundums are cheap as chips and are pretty good. There's a round 'axe' version out there, usually cheap too.

I've got a SiC puck. Nah I don't have a speed a axe but I like to use different finishes for different stuff. My little cheap hatchet will do just fine with a coticule axe stone then a washita to put teeth back on it. I've got a fiskars axe that it made of a much, much harder steel and I can use coarse coticules, the quick cut or India combo for most of what I'm doing but I need a fine option for smoother cutting that's overkill for finer cleaning on timbers so I don't have to spend a much time with the draw knife, chisels or plane. I think a barbers hone will probably be good on my draw knife too.

 

[Gamma]

With axes, some SIC pucks do ok, others not so much. There are some (vintage) with a side that is finer than others. Same for barber hones. I've worn channels into many Carborundum 100 series hones, with oil I can get a pretty fine edge. For my needs, the main hurdles are loading, surfaces wearing too fast, size/weight. That's why I turned to the DMT cards, they tick all the boxes.

 

[cotedupy]

Tried the other two this afternoon, and the middle one is easily the quickest of the lot - really quite a fast stone for the level. The scratch pattern here is somewhere around 3-5k at a guess. It's been a while since I last used one so not 100% sure, but I think this may be an old King Ice Bear 4k.

Third stone is a little less fine that the SS 10K I think, certainly faster, and doesn't load/clog/glaze at all really. It also does kasumi properly with quite nice detail (this is impossible to pick up on my phone camera, so you'll have to take my word). It's a suspiciously similar colour to an SS 8k, but far, far better than any Superstone I've used before... so god knows!

 

[captaincaed]

Jon from JKI told me that some synthetic stones (including his synthetic natural) get better once you grind through a bit. May have to do with a harder crust from baking. I found after a mil was removed, that was true. It's gotten better since. Maybe you're having a similar experience?

 

[rbscebu]

Jon from JKI told me that some synthetic stones (including his synthetic natural) get better once you grind through a bit. May have to do with a harder crust from baking. I found after a mil was removed, that was true. It's gotten better since. Maybe you're having a similar experience?

Now you are giving me ideas. I have a Jsynth of unknown make I was told is rated at 10k. It has never really worked for me. I might give it a good lapping on course SC powder to see if it removes the "crust".

 

[cotedupy]

Jon from JKI told me that some synthetic stones (including his synthetic natural) get better once you grind through a bit. May have to do with a harder crust from baking. I found after a mil was removed, that was true. It's gotten better since. Maybe you're having a similar experience?

You mean to try to improve the Superstone...?

These stones are all quite old and have been used a fair bit, I had to lap through a fair bit of dishing already. Every SS I've tried above 1k has this problem; they load with any level of pressure above zero, the natural instinct is to up the pressure to get it working, which then means you dig in cos they're also very soft.

They're just awful stones for knives. But very good for razors, and feel lovely for honing. Of all the Jsynth ranges, Superstones are the one most suited to one thing over the other.

Though what you/Jon say is certainly true, particularly SnG stones do usually benefit from some material removal to begin with. It doesn't seem to be necessary with soakers, ime.

 

[captaincaed]

Ah gotcha! I agree I needed to learn a new stone paradigm going to razors from knives. After getting a couple naniwa, honing got way better. Maybe I should try them on knives to see what I’m not missing.

The JKI synth Nat is a soaker. No idea about others, could be a one off!