Speaking of 1k shaves, do you strop 1st or do you do a shave test off the stone? ThanksPeople show all kinds of stuff on youtube, not all of it is accurate info. A stone that isn't flat won't stick, and pencil grids will lap off long before the stone gets to being anywhere near 'dead flat'. I only use grids to show me where the hills and valleys are. After that I use a good quality straight edge to check flatness across 8 axes.
If your stone is sticking to the DMT, then you are probably not getting a water bath under the Naniwas's working surface while you are lapping. In other words, water should be falling on the plate while honing. Otherwise, the slurry can/will build up which creats a vacuum. Too much pressure will exacerbate this tremendously, in fact you can press down on one of those 10 mm thick Specialty/Super Stones and if both surfaces are wet it can stick a bit even without any lapping. With proper lapping though, you will eventually create a very flat Naniwa which can stick a bit, but it usually won't 'lock on'.
Before dumping your Nani 8k, it migth be a good idea to learn how to set a bevel well enough to shave with first. That way, you'll be able to actually judge the performance of that 8k fairly. Because if you don't have the bevel set right, and I'd bet a dollar you don't, then there isn't an 8k on the planet that is going to improve your results.
"Sticking"
- Thread starter Dullasdishwater
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Speaking of 1k shaves, do you strop 1st or do you do a shave test off the stone? Thanks
Never... ever... EVER shave without stropping. You can't get a comfortable shave off anything without stropping.
I don't want to derail the OP's thread.
I’m certainly very sorry if some of my prior comments have pulled this thread off topic. It’s hard for me to stay focused sometimes because one factor can seem to easily cascade into all kinds of other aspects without realizing it...
That being said I seldom use the Naniwa 8k and one of the main reasons is that I don’t really like the sensation I get while lapping it. Maybe not the greatest reason for not using it but mostly it just sits around because I just get a better feel when lapping other stones that may be comparable in in honing performance.
That being said I seldom use the Naniwa 8k and one of the main reasons is that I don’t really like the sensation I get while lapping it. Maybe not the greatest reason for not using it but mostly it just sits around because I just get a better feel when lapping other stones that may be comparable in in honing performance.
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OP, definitely be sure to lap under running water. Also to use as little pressure as possible. In addition, especially with soft hones/stones, it's helpful to only lap for a short time, then separate the hone and diamond plate and thoroughly remove any slurry by rubbing both the hone and diamond plate whilst rinsing with running water. This should only take a few seconds, then resume lapping. Doing these will help make the sticking less, but won't eliminate it entirely.
Rather than an interrupted DMT plate, I'd recommend using an Atoma plate.
Rather than an interrupted DMT plate, I'd recommend using an Atoma plate.
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- #26
Thanks lads. There's some very interesting (and even intriguing) responses to my OP.
After reading all of your posts, I've taken a more philosophical attitude toward lapping and honing. I guess my first mistake was that I took a brute force, palaeolithic approach to both tasks - trying to batter the stone into submission (and my straight blade). I don't really appreciate the finer points - no pun intended - of lapping and honing. So, I think I need to rethink how I perform these tasks, reduce pressure here, increase pressure there etc. I was thinking of buying new plates/stones etc., but I'm thinking now that that would be a kop out.
Mind you, the sticking problem that I highlighted can be really, really infuriating. The dishing on the 8K stone is infuriating too, but less so.
I have used a straight edge, although only along the longitudinal axis of the honing stone. As mentioned before, it is invariably the 8K that shows marked dishing. My other stones, particularly the coarser specialities show little to no dishing.
Anyhoo, if at first you don't succeed.....
After reading all of your posts, I've taken a more philosophical attitude toward lapping and honing. I guess my first mistake was that I took a brute force, palaeolithic approach to both tasks - trying to batter the stone into submission (and my straight blade). I don't really appreciate the finer points - no pun intended - of lapping and honing. So, I think I need to rethink how I perform these tasks, reduce pressure here, increase pressure there etc. I was thinking of buying new plates/stones etc., but I'm thinking now that that would be a kop out.
Mind you, the sticking problem that I highlighted can be really, really infuriating. The dishing on the 8K stone is infuriating too, but less so.
I have used a straight edge, although only along the longitudinal axis of the honing stone. As mentioned before, it is invariably the 8K that shows marked dishing. My other stones, particularly the coarser specialities show little to no dishing.
Anyhoo, if at first you don't succeed.....
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- #27
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- #28
Point taken.
However, by what yardstick does one measure properly honed bevel? I always assumed that progressive strokes on coarser stones were sufficient to produce a properly bevelled blade, but now I'm thinking that there's more to it than that. Do I apply less pressure on the coarser stones etc.?
Can you clarify what you mean by progressive strokes? Now when it comes to conveying the idea of pressure on a forum I might use a parallel like similar pressure to using a pencil eraser early on until you get good undercut across the length of the blade. You know, enough pressure to make a rickety table rock a little bit. But once you get that undercut you can begin to scale down your pressure to near weight of the blade near the end of your work on 1k.
At the risk of further muddying the waters, you may find this interesting. Naniwa stabilization
In other words, when you can do a 3 pass shave off your bevel setter, you're probably 'there'.
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- #32
Yes, I mean progressing from 1K to 3K to 5K....
I think my biggest problem is applying too much pressure to the blade - way too much.
Moreover, I have probably been doing too many strokes - like 150 hundred on a 1K.
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- #33
Yes, that is interesting, thank you.
I live in Ireland, so dampness would be more of an issue. After use, I leave my stones leaning against the splashboard beside the sink. They usually dry within 24 hours.
So you reckon a 20mm Naniwa is better? Simply because it's bulkier?
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- #34
Ok, I have a spare dovo, so I'll give that a try out on the 1K this weekend.
I shaved this morning with my other dovo (an astrale) and it went ok. I started on the left cheek - of my face
- and the blade removed the hairs easily. However the right cheek and my chin wasn't as smooth. The neck was ok when I went against the grain on my left side. The right side was a bit rough again. Anyway, long and short of it, it wasn't a bad shave, but I believe it can be better. Thing is my right shoulder is "frozen", so stretching the skin on the left cheek is a bit painful - but it still cut the hairs easily.
So, I've a bit to go before I get the knack of this dark art.
PS: I stropped before shaving - about 50 strokes on a Malewski paddle strop.
Yes, for the relatively small increase in price you avoid having to supply a backing plate. For what it is worth, my Naniwas seem to be much more stable now than when they were new.
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