Not a big fan. I prefer much stronger coffee than what is served at Starbucks, however when traveling it is a safe choice since it is normally the same no matter where you are and it is better than some other chains.
Starbucks? How are they viewed among the coffee guys and gals?
- Thread starter DaveNJ74
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GWYM, I see your point, I just think there is a more substantive difference - it's not just about which "scene" you prefer, at least in my eyes, or maybe more accurately...in this part of the country. Fresh roasted coffee has not caught on all that much on the east coast, it may be different where you are with a bunch of irritating hipsters crowding independent coffee shops and talking about how lame Starbucks is. I'm in it for the flavor, not the culture.
Don't get me wrong, if one likes a dark roast there is absolutely nothing wrong with that (and I do like the occasional cup), I just think everyone should at least try the "indie scene" as you put it to see if it is something they like - when done right you can taste things you never knew were possible with coffee. But who knows, you may not like it as much as Starbucks. Drink what you like, like what you drink.
For those who are wondering what the heck I am talking about, here's how I would explain it. Like wine, green coffee beans have different characteristic flavors which they get depending on where they are grown - floral notes, citrus notes, chocolatey notes, earthiness, etc. When you roast the beans to give it that 'roasty' flavor you basically have to decide, do you want the natural flavors of the coffee to dominate with a light roast flavor, or do you want a dark "bold" coffee which sacrifices those regional differences. A skilled roaster (which I don't claim to be) can find that perfect balance for each particular type of bean (or blend of beans) to bring the most out of it, or suit their tastes the best. The importance of having the coffee freshly roasted is simple - the longer the coffee sits, the more of these flavor compounds leave the beans, eventually rendering the coffee stale.
If you want a hand grinder, Zassenhaus makes a good one - I have one and am satisfied with it. It did cost maybe $80 though, so it's not that cheap. It will do a passable espresso grind, and makes for a great moka pot grind, but it does take a lot of hand cranking. Really wakes you up in the morning.
(sorry for the long post)
Don't get me wrong, if one likes a dark roast there is absolutely nothing wrong with that (and I do like the occasional cup), I just think everyone should at least try the "indie scene" as you put it to see if it is something they like - when done right you can taste things you never knew were possible with coffee. But who knows, you may not like it as much as Starbucks. Drink what you like, like what you drink.
For those who are wondering what the heck I am talking about, here's how I would explain it. Like wine, green coffee beans have different characteristic flavors which they get depending on where they are grown - floral notes, citrus notes, chocolatey notes, earthiness, etc. When you roast the beans to give it that 'roasty' flavor you basically have to decide, do you want the natural flavors of the coffee to dominate with a light roast flavor, or do you want a dark "bold" coffee which sacrifices those regional differences. A skilled roaster (which I don't claim to be) can find that perfect balance for each particular type of bean (or blend of beans) to bring the most out of it, or suit their tastes the best. The importance of having the coffee freshly roasted is simple - the longer the coffee sits, the more of these flavor compounds leave the beans, eventually rendering the coffee stale.
Well you have two types of grinders - whirley-blade and burr grinders. The latter give you a more consistent grind, while the former will give you everything from big chunks to powder (although you do have a little bit of control over the "average" fineness of the grind). Blade grinders are fine for drip and adequate for a french press (although you get a little bit of "chalk" at the bottom of your cup - just let it settle and don't drink it if you don't want to). Burr grinders range from a cheap cuisinart (haven't tried one but I hear they are fine for french press, not fine for espresso) and ones that cost hundreds of dollars (if you want a nice one for espresso).
If you want a hand grinder, Zassenhaus makes a good one - I have one and am satisfied with it. It did cost maybe $80 though, so it's not that cheap. It will do a passable espresso grind, and makes for a great moka pot grind, but it does take a lot of hand cranking. Really wakes you up in the morning.
(sorry for the long post)
It's better than Dunkin Donuts coffee which has no taste anymore. When I was working I used to stop at Starbucks in the morning for a "medium, black coffee". I never did make an attempt to learn the lingo and never did figure out what the heck people ordered. Now that I'm retired I rarely go out for coffee. I prefer brewing my own.
I am of the opinion that "Friends don't let friends drink Starbucks". What once was a decent coffee shop in Seattle has become a purveyor of tasteless bland swill to the masses.
Sometimes the best cup of coffee, is the cup of coffee that's in your hand. Depending on your day that may be a cup from Starbucks.
Hario mini mill. it will cost like 30 bucks and grind from espresso to vac pot to frech press.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
+1! Eight O'Clock Columbian absolutely rocks, and it is also among the cheapest and is available in practically every big grocery. I never buy anything else unless I want a proper espresso roast.
I don't care to visit Starbucks and I find their snotty little goth kids they often hire to be irritating to the extreme. I'm not letting some guy in black fingernail polish handle anything I put to my mouth, that's for sure. What I hate most about them is if you JUST WANT A CUP OF COFFEE, you can't just ask for it. You have to translate what you want into their starbucks-lingo or else put up with 20 questions or a huffy attitude. Why can't they understand that when you ask for a large cup of coffee, you just want a large cup of regular old coffee? They are idiots and probably can't wait to get off work and sniff some more glue. As for their packaged coffee sold in the grocery, well, they have variety, but none of them really impress me all that much. Gimme da 8:00 Columbian. I'll settle for Dunkin Donuts in a pinch. Not bad stuff.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
BTW, my favorite grinder cost me about $4 at the Spice Bazaar in Istanbul. Hand crank, of course. handmade out of brass with a cast iron rotor and stator as the actual grindy part. I had to modify it slightly because the grind was just too fine. I have since bought several of them.
That isn't a pic of my personal one. I am on a ship and didn't bring a grinder with me... I just did a quick google for one. Wow... the prices for these things are robbery over here! I think I'll get a big ol sack of them next time I am in Greece or Turkey.
Anyway, those whirly blade grinders? Don't bother. They suck. It would be nice to be able to find a GOOD $30 electric burr grinder in a compact form factor. Until then, I will use my hand grinder.
That isn't a pic of my personal one. I am on a ship and didn't bring a grinder with me... I just did a quick google for one. Wow... the prices for these things are robbery over here! I think I'll get a big ol sack of them next time I am in Greece or Turkey.
Anyway, those whirly blade grinders? Don't bother. They suck. It would be nice to be able to find a GOOD $30 electric burr grinder in a compact form factor. Until then, I will use my hand grinder.
I get starbucks beans to use at work and when I don't have anything fresh roasted on hand. It's not the best but it's better than anything I can get locally.
A tip - the beans at their coffeshops are usually fresher than what you find at the grocery store or anywhere else. Look at the use by date on the bag and subtract, I believe, eight months and you can find out when it was roasted.
A tip - the beans at their coffeshops are usually fresher than what you find at the grocery store or anywhere else. Look at the use by date on the bag and subtract, I believe, eight months and you can find out when it was roasted.
They are all over the uk, cities, towns motorway stops, so i use them as they are there.
Way to insult The Eagles!
In all seriousness, there's a difference between "mainstream" and "good". The Eagles were both. Starbucks is just mainstream.
Chase Jarvis would be proud (or angry).
I have an occasional cup of fresh-ground coffee at home, but mostly I drink tea. I like the availability of Starbucks because I know where I can find an acceptable cup of tea on a road trip. Without Starbucks, tea on the road would be dismal. I get a venti Awake and add a little milk.
Pretty much sums up my opinion. You walk into starbucks and you know what yo're getting pretty much no matter where you are. Never going to blow you away, but sometimes all you want it just a cup of coffee. No life altering experience needed.
I tend to stop at Starbucks for coffee in airports or at urban centers. Thier coffeee is good, but can vary quite a bit between stores.
I'd say about like McDonald's is for hamburgers. The analogy falls short at price but both are ubiquitous and consistent however they're both far from the best* examples of their respective products (though I'd consider arguing that Starbucks is actually in the business of selling syrups). Still, countless people love them both. It all depends on your preferences, tastes, experience, etc -- not unlike any other field or topic of interest.
I'm a latte snob. I can't stand the bland, lifeless drinks that Starbucks tries to pass off as a latte. I'd welcome anyone to try a blind taste test between Starbucks and my favorite coffee shop. I actually never went out for a latte while home prior to this local shop opening up several years ago. There's really no comparison in taste or appearance even if you know nothing about coffee or lattes. You don't even need to go to my coffee shop. There are many, many excellent coffee shops across the country that have pricing that is competitive with Starbucks. My own shop recently raised its prices above that of Starbies but that was because they switched to sourcing all of their milk from a local, grass-fed dairy farm. The farm isn't certified organic but does meet the standards. The quality of milk definitely makes a difference as well.
I'll go out of my way when traveling to research good local coffee shops. If a town is too small or doesn't have a good local coffee shop for whatever reason, I'll consider Starbucks as a measure of last resort. Hopefully that give readers some perspective of where I'm coming from. If you like Starbucks or Folgers then traveling is a lot easier for you and I envy the ease with which you find good coffee for yourself.
Don't be afraid to try good coffee shops (search and ask for help if you need it). And don't assume that Starbucks is the pinnacle of coffee.
Anyone buying preground is not a "coffee guy". Ground beans go stale in a matter of minutes.
I do, however, agree that Starbucks is frequently a stepping stone to the world of specialty coffee. I just wouldn't consider it a destination like many do.
Pushing buttons on a superauto doesn't make one a barista any more than hunting and pecking on a keyboard makes one a hacker.
You're confusing "hipster" with "coffee snob". There is definitely overlap but they're different circles.
It goes well beyond just foodstuffs. Appeal to the lowest common denominator and you lost the interest of the enthusiasts. For the same reason, I don't drive a Toyota Camry. It is a solid, reliable car. It is also very boring and uninspiring to drive -- particularly on the twisties or on the track.
* Yes, I realize best is highly subjective
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Location is often the most important element when I am buying a cup of coffee, if I would like a cup, I often get it at the closest place. This means that I sometimes drive by a McDonald's and get a cup there, other times it is a Second Cup, a Tim Horton's, a local coffee shop, or even the waiting area of whatever obscure place I may be in at the time. I drink my coffee black or with a bit of milk. Out of all the places where I pick up coffee from time to time, some serve a better cup than others, but Starbucks is the only place where I have bought coffees that I threw out without wanting to finish them.
For those who drink some sort of coffee type mix drink, Starbucks may be the place to be. But, if you like to drink coffee, most other sources of the bean are better.
For those who drink some sort of coffee type mix drink, Starbucks may be the place to be. But, if you like to drink coffee, most other sources of the bean are better.
Those are fighting words, friend. I sell 12 ounce bags. I've recently (this morning, actually) added a 1lb. and a 2lb. bag as available options. That doesn't change the value of the coffee itself, however.How can they be any good they sell in 12 ounce bags?
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