Please forgive me for the derail!While y'all meditatin, I'm in your boudoir gettin coin!
Spirituality, Meditation, Prayer?
- Thread starter saj
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So that's why they call you 'silverlifter'.While y'all meditatin, I'm in your boudoir gettin coin!
Juss sayin'...... I'll keep my hand on my wallet around this guy, 'cuz I gots a feelin' he ain't no miner....So that's why they call you 'silverlifter'.
Contemplative prayer completely changed my life in a number of ways, but two big ones were:
1. Spiritually, I've had what I can only believe are very direct, intimate and real experiences with the living God that I wouldn't have had otherwise if I didn't sit waiting in silence. God not as a theological concept but as a personal presence.
2. Mentally and emotionally I've come to realize that I am not my brain. My brain is just another aspect of my body, like my arm or my leg. I can fully control it and its thoughts. It is part of what makes me whole, just like the rest of my body, but I no longer overly identify with what is going on in my brain any more than what is going on my computer screen. Now, who is the actual "I" that is controlling my brain and where does that "I" actually reside if not my brain? I'll leave that question to monks, philosophers and psychologists.
I'm a devout Christian but I never ever push my beliefs on anyone else. If the theism of this post bothers you, that is just my lens to see the world and I still encourage you to do non-theistic meditation to experience #2. Mechanically, contemplative prayer and meditation work the same way -- sit in silence, breathe, put your thoughts aside and repeat every day forever.
1. Spiritually, I've had what I can only believe are very direct, intimate and real experiences with the living God that I wouldn't have had otherwise if I didn't sit waiting in silence. God not as a theological concept but as a personal presence.
2. Mentally and emotionally I've come to realize that I am not my brain. My brain is just another aspect of my body, like my arm or my leg. I can fully control it and its thoughts. It is part of what makes me whole, just like the rest of my body, but I no longer overly identify with what is going on in my brain any more than what is going on my computer screen. Now, who is the actual "I" that is controlling my brain and where does that "I" actually reside if not my brain? I'll leave that question to monks, philosophers and psychologists.
I'm a devout Christian but I never ever push my beliefs on anyone else. If the theism of this post bothers you, that is just my lens to see the world and I still encourage you to do non-theistic meditation to experience #2. Mechanically, contemplative prayer and meditation work the same way -- sit in silence, breathe, put your thoughts aside and repeat every day forever.
Badgerstate36 can probably do a better job of explaining than I can, particularly as to Zazen specifics, but that does not stop me from rushing in to tell you "more than I know." Also, there must be thousands of pieces of instruction on meditation on the web including on You Tube including stuff specifically on Zen. But my general impression of most Zen meditation is to sit and "follow the breath." Pay attention to your breathing in and out while not trying to affect that breathing. Some Zen techniques, as I recall, count the breaths up to ten and then start over. When thoughts intrude other than following your breath, and they will, just note that that is happening and return gently to following your breath.
This is and is not easy. It both is and is not simple. You get better the more you do this.
You are letting go of the thought by turning your attention back to your breath and thereby displacing the thought. You would not be exerting effort to not keep thinking the thought, but you are not allowing your self to stay with the thought either. You are observing the thought by noticing that you seem to have stopped following your breath and your mind seems to be off thinking thoughts. Something like that.
Try it and post your experiences and someone on here my be able comment in a helpful manner.
No guru, no method!
"Be still, and know that (He) is God."
I just sit and try not to think. Sometimes thats easier than other times, sometimes its harder. That translates into time spent doing that.
Other times, like when my father died, I sat in my brother in laws basement smoking and drinking coffee while reloading rifle and handgun shells. I had just started doing that and it took a lot of concentration for me. That intense focus stopped my thinking about other things but, the whole time, my brain was processing. I sat in that basement for three days on nothing but cigarettes and coffee and reloaded every empty brass casing I could find. Eventually, I came to terms with things, processed what had happened and worked through it.
Without that intense focal point, it would have taken much longer. I had no distractions and I knew I had to do things exactly right without any mistakes.
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i will try not to think but difficult as im an overthinker naturally
Concentrate on not concentrating haha.
Maybe I said this previously, but the new Zen student asks the master how many years until he reaches enlightment. The Master says "about 10." But what if I try really really hard." The master responds "20." The student says, "but you just said 20!" The master responds, "for you, 30."
The way I was taught and my experience has been is to not try too hard at anything. The trying not to think does not work at all. Everyone reading this right now try not to think of a purple parrot. Is everyone thinking of a purple parrot right now? I thought you would be. Of course you are going to have thoughts. Did you think you were going to sit down to meditate and find you had already become a master? That you had already reached enlightment? Thoughts come for us all. Notice that they have come and gently return your mind to your breath. Rinse and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.
I read it too fast and wondered what a purple carrot was lol.
Different meditation techniques different approaches. And there are techniques that state they are concentration. To the extent concentration implies great effort, I think for most purposes the meditators should not be applying great effort as to anything. Focus may be the better word. Bring your mind gently back to your breath, or bodily sensations, or whatever technique you are following. You cannot will your mind not to have thoughts. How is that purple parrot doing for you? Bring your mind away from the purple parrot and back to your breath or whatever.
After a time, who knows how long or how many sessions, you may have the feeling or thought of "holy smoke, I just had a period there where I had zero thoughts." As soon as you have that feeling or thought that period of no thoughts is over! Just go back gently to your breath. If you do this enough, you really will have periods where you have zero thoughts and/or you will be aware that thoughts gently drift through one by one slowly. Just stick with or go back to your breath. When I say thoughts they can be feelings, too. As you stick with meditation you will come to understand that those are just thoughts. Those are just feelings. They are not real. I do not have to do anything with them. You may have a better understanding or where they may come from, what may cause them. But will be able to retain a state and sense of equanimity, of calm. You may get better sense of the self that is having these feelings and thoughts. The self that is "behind" them. You may also get a sense of a greater Self, or some would say God, that underlies all of this.
As you become a more experienced meditator you may find that you can let go of returning to focus on the breath. That you will be able to let thoughts and feelings wort of drift by without your mind becoming attached to them.
But thoughts and feelings will always come. They will, however, eventually become fewer and more space out. More distinct, perhaps as thoughts and feelings, nothing that is real. Those week long Zen retreats would likely facilitate that. You sit for days bringing your attention gently back to your breath and your brain will likely run out of things to think about!
Another technique might be to sit and close your eyes and focus on the thought that you overthink everything naturally and that you just cannot get that thought our of your mind that you do. When you mind drifts off thinking that, bring it gently back to thinking that again. "I just cannot stop thinking, I think and think and think." You may eventually find that you cannot keep that thought in your mind. That your mind refuses to keep thinking.
Just a thought!
I am not a meditation master, much less a Zen meditation master. As David Foster Wallace said "The mind is a wonderful servant, but a horrible master!"
Either probably works!
If anybody wants a free copy of morning, evening, and before bed prayers, send me a message with your email address and I'll zip you a copy right over. These have stood the test of time and proven themselves.
Not that it matters, and meditation in one form or another as well as prayer are probably as old as religion itself, but the Buddha lived in the 5th century BCE and the Vedas, fundamental tenants of Buddhism go back perhaps as far as 1500 BCE. I do not think there is anything much new as to Eastern meditation practices. Not that the kinds of meditation we are talking about necessarily have anything to do with religion or faith per se. Not that I am knocking faith.
No guru. No method.
No guru. No method.
Sometimes I need to focus before I can relax. Music is what gets me there during those times.
I meant "focus" rather than "concentrate" to take some of the effort off of "concentrate," but I know what you mean for sure about music!
I just sacrifice to Odin…..!
Hooray Odin!
It is not exactly on point, I suppose, but I offer an excerpt of David Foster Wallace's commencement speech at Kenyon University, "This Is Water," which, without quite saying so is something of an explanation or defense, of the benefits of mindfulness practice. Or at least of the benefits of considering what is the ordinary, "automatic," as he puts it, thinking that fills our head each today as compared to the capital "T" truth, as he also puts it, whatever that really is. And this Wallace quote probably supports all of the prayer and meditation methods we have addressed in this thread. It is not intended by me to be controversial or partisan.
"Heady" stuff, so to speak. Believe me, I do not pretend to be on the level he is talking about, and I do not not necessarily buy everything he says, even when I understand it, which I do not always.
I do think that meditation practice can help sort out what is just a flood of "monkey brain," pointless, superficial thoughts and feelings from what may be a clearer vision of who we might really be, or be capable of being. If one is going to meditate, one ought to have something of an idea why they are doing it, right? FWIW: [whoops, I am going to try posting the quote in a separate entry. The formatting came out all screwy when I tried to put it in this message!!]
It is not exactly on point, I suppose, but I offer an excerpt of David Foster Wallace's commencement speech at Kenyon University, "This Is Water," which, without quite saying so is something of an explanation or defense, of the benefits of mindfulness practice. Or at least of the benefits of considering what is the ordinary, "automatic," as he puts it, thinking that fills our head each today as compared to the capital "T" truth, as he also puts it, whatever that really is. And this Wallace quote probably supports all of the prayer and meditation methods we have addressed in this thread. It is not intended by me to be controversial or partisan.
"Heady" stuff, so to speak. Believe me, I do not pretend to be on the level he is talking about, and I do not not necessarily buy everything he says, even when I understand it, which I do not always.
I do think that meditation practice can help sort out what is just a flood of "monkey brain," pointless, superficial thoughts and feelings from what may be a clearer vision of who we might really be, or be capable of being. If one is going to meditate, one ought to have something of an idea why they are doing it, right?
FWIW: [whoops, I am going to try posting the quote in a separate entry. The formatting came out all screwy when I tried to put it in this message!!]I cannot seem to fix the formatting on the DFW "This Is Water" excerpt for posting in a B&B message. Sorry. The entire speech is at “This Is Water” by David Foster Wallace - https://whatthewise.com/this-is-water/ I was going to quote starting at about the 10th paragraph in that begins with the word "Because" and going through the end of the next paragraph or so. Although all the way to the end is arguable relevant, as is the entire speech, I suppose! Sorry. Maybe this is an omen I should not be posting this at all! Seems to me like a reasonable thing to at least reference to me though. The Mods can remove if it is controversial.
