Ok. Sorry for getting emotional. Just a little frustrated. Not at anyone, but myself.
Just to pardon and explain myself.
Just to pardon and explain myself.
Softer Japanese Naturals are for Razors too.
- Thread starter alx gilmore
- Start date
My take on this. You have to try a lot of stones. Then once you have them and start lapping them you can tell how hard they are, how easily they give up slurry comparing to others. Soft stones being muddier etc. I think I was reading on Imanishi's site that you can tap on the stone with a metal, softer stone sounds duller etc. But the specific numbers, those are subjective. What is just hard for me can be super hard to somebody else. It all depends what have they tried.
Stamps usually done mean much. They will sometimes tell you who was the wholeseller, sometimes they will indicate the strata but not really how hard the stone is.
Stamps usually done mean much. They will sometimes tell you who was the wholeseller, sometimes they will indicate the strata but not really how hard the stone is.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
First, no stamps that I have ever seen will tell you the hardness of the stone.
Mostly, you determine the hardness by using it. But if you want to test hardness - not absolutely, but relative to other stones - here are some clues.
How long that it took you to flatten it.
How quickly ‘slurry‘ forms when flattening it on sandpaper, etc
How long that it takes to raise a slurry with your favorite diamond plate.
How long that it takes to raise a working slurry with a known good razor tomo.
I think that you’re reading more into this than there is. Just use the stone. If it’s really hard you’ll quickly learn how to raise a working slurry, if it’s really soft you’ll learn to try clear water finishing strokes..... It isn’t science, it’s art (trial and error).
Mostly, you determine the hardness by using it. But if you want to test hardness - not absolutely, but relative to other stones - here are some clues.
How long that it took you to flatten it.
How quickly ‘slurry‘ forms when flattening it on sandpaper, etc
How long that it takes to raise a slurry with your favorite diamond plate.
How long that it takes to raise a working slurry with a known good razor tomo.
I think that you’re reading more into this than there is. Just use the stone. If it’s really hard you’ll quickly learn how to raise a working slurry, if it’s really soft you’ll learn to try clear water finishing strokes..... It isn’t science, it’s art (trial and error).
Basically one stone's hardness rating is determined relative to other stones. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't lvl 5 or 5+ at the top at one point, and then as harder stones were brought into the picture they just kept adding +++? Any other given rating is just in comparison to all of the other stones the seller has experienced.
To get an idea for yourself, you can gauge it by how quickly the stone gives up slurry. Watch videos of people slurrying their jnats with diamond plates. They might slurry for 30 seconds and get a thin mist, or they might get a good whole milk. They might not even use slurry and you can see the stone self slurry right before your very eyes. Then compare it to your own stone.
Hardness is subjective and difficult because different guys use different scales of reference and numbers and descriptions. Having known reference points from different sellers does help one gauge this out and then determine for ones self. It gets confusing with the + ++ and what not. I really like giving a range much better and not really using all the extras. So say a 4lv-4.5lv then 4.5-5lv and then just 5+, but even then it gets squirrelly and I jump around to try and fit others scale ratings sometimes. I find feel, density ,sound, slurry and water absorption to be the best way to tell. Fineness and speed are other things to keep in mind besides hardness.
Water absoprtion Put a drop of water on the stone just drop it on don't touch it and see how long it takes to be absorbed. The longer the harder the stone usually. Then just put water on the stone and take some steel for sharpening and rub it on the stone. If the water turns black with swarf or some black swarf appears before slurry does then it is a good cutter and the longer for slurry to appear or not at all the harder the stone. Generally stones that start to slurry with normal razor pressure and just water are toward the softer side for razors in the 3.5-4lv. If the water drop sits proud for 20 minutes or more it is usually a harder stone. Say 4.5-5lv and if the water sits for really long like hours say 5-5+lv. Again this is subjective and how easily it slurries or not comes into play. There is no exact science and it is more gauged for sellers as they need to have the best description possible for the buyer. Atoma plates help with this judging too, but you may need a reference point. Like on the real hard stones usually can't create a muddy slurry more milky or wispy light slurry. Similar to what Alex says above.
Water absoprtion Put a drop of water on the stone just drop it on don't touch it and see how long it takes to be absorbed. The longer the harder the stone usually. Then just put water on the stone and take some steel for sharpening and rub it on the stone. If the water turns black with swarf or some black swarf appears before slurry does then it is a good cutter and the longer for slurry to appear or not at all the harder the stone. Generally stones that start to slurry with normal razor pressure and just water are toward the softer side for razors in the 3.5-4lv. If the water drop sits proud for 20 minutes or more it is usually a harder stone. Say 4.5-5lv and if the water sits for really long like hours say 5-5+lv. Again this is subjective and how easily it slurries or not comes into play. There is no exact science and it is more gauged for sellers as they need to have the best description possible for the buyer. Atoma plates help with this judging too, but you may need a reference point. Like on the real hard stones usually can't create a muddy slurry more milky or wispy light slurry. Similar to what Alex says above.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Well, I forgot that there is one stamp that means ‘hard’ and it looks like a square. When Google translate see it, it translates it as ‘hard mouth’, probably because it looks like a anime or cartoon mouth?
If you see a stone with this stamp on it, you can be sure that it’s hard.
Here’s an image. Lower left, faint, a square that means hard, and it is.
Upper left, ‘jyun’ or pure.
Far right, ‘Ma’ probably means Matsunaga whetstone company, they used this stamp on natural stones.
Middle bottom, roughly translated, ‘I’m the real deal, take me home baby!’
If you see a stone with this stamp on it, you can be sure that it’s hard.
Here’s an image. Lower left, faint, a square that means hard, and it is.
Upper left, ‘jyun’ or pure.
Far right, ‘Ma’ probably means Matsunaga whetstone company, they used this stamp on natural stones.
Middle bottom, roughly translated, ‘I’m the real deal, take me home baby!’
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Hi! I am sorry, but I don’t know. It had no stamps, and the seller didn’t know. He had tested it extensively, and found it to be a fantastic finisher. I have found the same for both finishing on the stone, and spraying its slurry onto a harder JNAT. I actually did that yesterday with this Wacker razor...really nice shave.
Vr
Matt
Thanks Matt!
Can you tell here who's the vendor? It's seems a very interesting stone indeed!
Can you tell here who's the vendor? It's seems a very interesting stone indeed!
