Sight "upgrade" advice

[kbuzbee]

So I have a small gun I'd like to make 'low light friendly'

There are no ready made replacement sights available so I see two options.

I found a place that will add Trijicon tubes to the existing sights, probably two lower level yellow in the rear and a brighter green on the front.

I could use "glow paint" to add my own dots (or lines or whatever)

The Trijicon sights don't need to be "charged" with light like the paint would. They are always ready to go (until they fail in 10 years )The paint is initially brighter but after 15-20 minutes the Trijicon will overtake it.

Cost goes to the paint, of course, being (roughly) $15 compared to $200 (and 4 weeks turn around time..l shipping etc) for the Trijicon.

I don't typically shoot in low light. My thinking is home defense. I may (hope to!) never need it.

In my mind Trijicon is the "right" solution but right now I'm thinking the glow paint may well be good enough. AND this gun will have a laser mounted under the barrel soon, so this is "just" a backup for the laser failing anyway.

Input? I'm leaning toward trying the paint first and go from there.

Ken

 

[MrMurphy]

What is the gun?

A single Trijicon front is enough to get rounds on target in the dark. I use 10-8 sights with a front tritium dot only, previously used similar XS Big Dots for the same reason. Fast and no screwing up.

 

[kbuzbee]

NAA Black Widow.

It's a lot of gun for an itty bitty package.

Trit-ing the front only hadn't occurred to me. Is this because you don't have time to form a three dot sight picture? At some point a home defense shooting class may be in order.

Ken

 

[Wishoot]

I don't think "Aiming" is a huge priority for these types of guns. These are more point-shooting, belly guns meant for very close-up work. Maybe good for extreme concealment, but not home defence. This may be a better option than upgrading the sights:

http://www.amazon.com/LaserLyte-NAA-VM-Laser-Sight-Pistol/dp/B009AMPW3Y

IMO, I think your money is much better spent investing in a gun that would serve you in both a concealed carry and home defence manner.

 

[PFP_Dad]

IMO, I think your money is much better spent investing in a gun that would serve you in both a concealed carry and home defence manner.

I share this sentiment. While either of your solutions are fine, both are generally unnecessary. A bit of practice on the range and you'll realize that where you point is where you shoot. Hitting target inside 20' doesn't require sights at all. For HD, you're going to want more rounds and more stopping power.

I'm not saying that what you have won't kill a man, but it'll require one if not more extremely well placed shots to do so quickly. A statistical improbability in an HD scenario. Think high capacity magazine and 9mm or larger, if you're willing to drop $200 on sights, you're almost there. If you prefer revolvers, there are many light .357 mags available now, though reload time is slow because of grip design.

 

[Hangten]

What is the light like in your house after dark?

I have used sights in all sorts of circumstances and lighting. If it is pitch black with no ambient trijicon may be your best bet. However most people have a ton of ambient light in their house and a neon nail polish would be enough. Remember that your eyes would have most likely adjusted to the dark when you are awoken.

If you are worried about low light situations on your home you may want to consider a remote controlled lighting. Not only would that solve your problem but would offer quite the distraction so you can surprise your visitor. It would also allow you the option of seeing your target so a family member up for a glass of milk does not end up spilling it.

 

[MrMurphy]

One dot, there's no confusion in lining up the 3 dots in the dark. Some people have (not sure how...) managed to put their front sight to the right or left of the rear two dots.

One dot on target-bang. Very fast.

I'd definitely get something in a bigger caliber. 9mm semiauto or a decent .357 4" revolver if you're a wheelgun guy.

Point shooting except at contact distance is legal suicide in a shooting.

 

[noelekal]

"Point shooting except at contact distance is legal suicide in a shooting"

How is this so?

 

[PFP_Dad]

"Point shooting except at contact distance is legal suicide in a shooting"

How is this so?

Same question. It is part of the law enforcement certification course in many states as well as nearly all other trainings that I have attended. You can't honestly believe the sights on something like a Ruger LCP are good for anything?

 

[fast14riot]

I think MrMurphy is referring to the fact that if you are outside of contact distance, you have other options before shooting.

I have a S&W MP in. .38spl (Victory issue) with the first two rounds being snake shot, the next 3 are HD loads in +P cases. I figure if two rounds of snake shot doesn't make someone stop and run the other way, then I really don't care about bullets going through walls.


-Xander

 

[kbuzbee]

Thanks for the input guys.

First, I'll put your minds somewhat at ease. There are other calibres available in the house. Hypothetically speaking a Glock .40 and a S&W .357, an Ithica 37 and if I need something really serious, a S&W 500

I was specifically asking about this BW because the black sights completely vanish in low ambient light, especially on a dark target. Point shooting is valid but I do want a sighting option I can see.

In any scenario I can imagine I'll have a Fenix in the other hand so I'll be able to distinguish if it's the wife getting a glass of "milk"

I do like the remote lighting idea. I'll have to give that more thought...

AND this gun will have a laser mounted under the barrel soon, so this is "just" a backup for the laser failing anyway.

This may be a better option than upgrading the sights:

http://www.amazon.com/LaserLyte-NAA-VM-Laser-Sight-Pistol/dp/B009AMPW3Y

Yep, that's the one. I'm sure they will ship it eventually, but it isn't here yet...


Ken

 

[MrMurphy]

Two different kinds of 'point shooting'. This has been beaten to death repeatedly in online arguments over the years. The horse is so dead he's underground.

Applegate/WW2 style "point" shooting. Your arm is extended, in view. You may not be using the sights but you are 'pointing your finger' and using the mass of the gun itself as a 'sight', superimposing the back of the gun onto the scumbag's body for a very, very rapid 'sight picture'. Maybe not a perfect one, but you're generally on target.

Old school FBI style 'point shooting' where you're doing the exaggerated crouch and the gun's down near your belt somewhere. Also known variously as the felony fling (where they 'throw' the rounds at you like they're punching with the gun) and a few others similarly, where the gun's in your hand but you don't see it and don't concentrate on it at all.

Legally speaking, the first one is still defensible. Yeah, police do teach it (I was running our state's qualification course the last couple weekends). The key is how it's explained in court. "I pointed my gun at him and shot him" can leave you wide open to the prosecution ripping you apart on the stand, especially if any of your rounds (as most do) miss. "So you mean you just fired willy-nilly and flung LETHAL BULLETS ALL OVER THE NEIGHBORHOOD in the dark without even AIMING! My God man, what kind of cold blooded killer are you!" etc etc etc. Lawyers have no shame.

Shooting by body index (coming out of the holster, arm locked against your side, aiming using body position) inside about five yards can be quite accurate in that you'll make a pretty solid body hit, and you're still technically aiming.

Just be very careful about how you phrase it.

For the gun involved, cost-vs-practicality, i'd honestly go the glowy-paint method if you've got bigger 'real' guns for defense use. I'd recommend the Glock. 10-8 makes excellent Glock sights for about $100, I run them on my personal Glock and my M&P (duty gun) will be acquiring a set shortly once I figure out if my new department allows them, which they should (I'm applying for about six at once, so figuring out policies for all of them gets interesting). Those NAA's have such little sights, i'm not even sure there's enough sight blade to install the tritium tube. A Chief's Special (older models) front sight is about as small as most gunsmiths will want to go doing that, I had one night-sighted about a decade back and it was tough.

If you pick up a newer small .22 revolver or auto a lot of them come with fiberoptic front sights, which gather just about any available light and do well. I demonstrated a fiberoptic shotgun bead to my dad for night shooting about 20 years ago, and the light of a single nightlight way down a hallway gave him a bright green dot to aim by in the dark. Still couldn't ID his target but he at least knew where he was aiming.

 

[kbuzbee]

For the gun involved, cost-vs-practicality, i'd honestly go the glowy-paint method if you've got bigger 'real' guns for defense use.

That's where I'm leaning at the moment. I can always explore trits down the road.

I'd recommend the Glock. 10-8 makes excellent Glock sights for about $100, I run them on my personal Glock and my M&P (duty gun) will be acquiring a set shortly once I figure out if my new department allows them,

My Glock sights are fine for low (not zero) light, but I'll keep the 10-8s in mind.

Those NAA's have such little sights, i'm not even sure there's enough sight blade to install the tritium tube. A Chief's Special (older models) front sight is about as small as most gunsmiths will want to go doing that, I had one night-sighted about a decade back and it was tough.

Yeah, I asked them and they thought they could do it, but I'd send them detailed pics and dimensions before I sent the frame.

If you pick up a newer small .22 revolver or auto a lot of them come with fiberoptic front sights, which gather just about any available light and do well. I demonstrated a fiberoptic shotgun bead to my dad for night shooting about 20 years ago, and the light of a single nightlight way down a hallway gave him a bright green dot to aim by in the dark. Still couldn't ID his target but he at least knew where he was aiming.

The Ithica has one of those and it's excellent. Haven't seen them on NAAs. For all the reasons stated there doesn't seem to be much demand for after market NAA sights. I guess there's a lesson in there somewhere

"So you mean you just fired willy-nilly and flung LETHAL BULLETS ALL OVER THE NEIGHBORHOOD in the dark without even AIMING! My God man, what kind of cold blooded killer are you!" etc etc etc. Lawyers have no shame.

True. And if they say that about a .22, just imagine what they'd have to say about a .50 calibre slug whistling through the neighborhood...

That gun is pretty impractical, for the most part, but it's an absolute blast to shoot.

Ken