Show us your Japanese Natural Whetstones

[Toro Blanco]

You want a tomo to be a little softer and just as fine of finer than your bench stone. One that cut steel well but is very fine.
You have two routes to go. Buy a lot of tomos and test them for yourself or if you can send your stone to Alex Gilmore and have him match a tomo to your stone. He has so many high quality tomos to choose from you can litteraly hear when they click together. Then some honing to verify if they are a match.

I tried to buy many tomos at first but you will in the end spend a lot more money by doing it that way. I got some cools tomos but none worked like my matched one. All I can say is he has a vast amount of knowledge and a vast amount of quality stones to pick and choose from. He is not cheap but is well worth the cost because in the end you will save money and have a perfectly matched tomo . The chances you finding one as good will be slim not impossible but slim.

I still like Thuris and Hard Arks but when you get a good Jnat, Wow! They are my go to now.

Cool stone by the way! Looks nice!

 

[global_dev]

rundown on Tomos

often a similar rubbing stone (nagura) as the base stone (awasedo). sometimes same, sometimes harder, sometimes softer.

 

[Toro Blanco]

often a similar rubbing stone (nagura) as the base stone (awasedo). sometimes same, sometimes harder, sometimes softer.

I was under the same assumption and purchased over ten tomos in those catagories but when I took my stone to Alex G and watched him as he exlpained and showed me step by step under magnification. You find out what is "ideal" versus "O.K." "IS". He is avery knowledgeable in his field of work and highly recommend him. He is very honest and has some of the most high quality jnats besides Mr. So out of Australia. Best outside of Japan fallowed by Aframes IMHO.

 

[GreazyThumbs]

You want a tomo to be a little softer and just as fine of finer than your bench stone. One that cut steel well but is very fine.
You have two routes to go. Buy a lot of tomos and test them for yourself or if you can send your stone to Alex Gilmore and have him match a tomo to your stone. He has so many high quality tomos to choose from you can litteraly hear when they click together. Then some honing to verify if they are a match.

I tried to buy many tomos at first but you will in the end spend a lot more money by doing it that way. I got some cools tomos but none worked like my matched one. All I can say is he has a vast amount of knowledge and a vast amount of quality stones to pick and choose from. He is not cheap but is well worth the cost because in the end you will save money and have a perfectly matched tomo . The chances you finding one as good will be slim not impossible but slim.

I still like Thuris and Hard Arks but when you get a good Jnat, Wow! They are my go to now.

Cool stone by the way! Looks nice!

Toro,

Thanks for the feedback, I was holding off on JNATs as something to graduate to once I felt I was ready. I have played with alot of rock now, so I felt it was time to try out. I agree this new stone is something special, an interesting feel and keen and comfortable result. I loved the look of it from the start. I would be impressed if I could find a Tomo that made this whole system better. I need to do some reading and possibly reach out to Alex.

Does anyone know what this stamp means?

Thanks,
Greazy

 

[global_dev]

was under the same assumption and purchased over ten tomos in those catagories

what other categories are there?

 

[rideon66]

Toro,

Thanks for the feedback, I was holding off on JNATs as something to graduate to once I felt I was ready. I have played with alot of rock now, so I felt it was time to try out. I agree this new stone is something special, an interesting feel and keen and comfortable result. I loved the look of it from the start. I would be impressed if I could find a Tomo that made this whole system better. I need to do some reading and possibly reach out to Alex.

Does anyone know what this stamp means?

Thanks,
Greazy

I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly it is yu meaning excellent

 

[Toro Blanco]

what other categories are there?

I said those categories! Meaning those three!
4-5 harder,3 just as hard, 6 softer. Spent 600-700 on just them easy.

I paid 80 for a matched one from Mr. Gilmore and it worked better than all of them. Yes faster and left a better(finer and more consistant) scratch pattern.

 

[Toro Blanco]

Just trying to help like I was helped. Paying it forward is very important to me. You seem like a good guy by what you post and trying to give a honest opinion. I am making no money and I recommend Alex G becsuse I have stated more than couple of times. He is honest and has a vast assortment of stones. He is very knowledgeable and conducts himself as a gentleman. I only recommend from people I have done business with and research them as much as I can before I purchase from them. I have only ever recommended Peter for Thuris, Alex, So ,and Takeshi for Jnats. Morihei in Japan also. If anybody has had a problem with any of them I am not aware of so I still recommend them. Hope this helps

I also have Arkanas, Thuris, Coti's, and some french stones but Jnats are my favorite. Not for there looks which is a plus but because of their perforemance. Faster, finer, and smoother just what I like.

 

[Steve56]

+1 for Alex.

Here’s the link to my ‘field trip’ to visit him in March, right before the world changed....

Field Trip: Disneyland for JNats

Gentlemen, I just returned from beautiful Sonoma, CA visiting a friend of mine, Alex Gilmore. Most of you know he is one of the great authorities on jnats, the history, mining, and stone usage. He will have a book coming soon I think. Anyway, enjoy the eye candy, one of the best selections of...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[global_dev]

matched one from Mr. Gilmore and it worked better than all of them. Yes faster and left a better(finer and more consistant) scratch pattern.

thats awesome. Are you aware if where it falls in hardness/fineness as compared to that base stone? Just curious and i understand that each paire are unique to each other and the goal.

 

[Steve56]

With razor tomo, it’s probably best not to over think it, you just have to try them unless you send your hone off to someone with a lot of knowledge and a lot of candidate tomo - like Alex. He’s the only one that I know that has both the knowledge and the stock to really match them up.

Without a lot of knowledge and a lot of stone, there are ways to proceed though. Razor tomo are rarer than the hones. A lot of them that are commercially available are from stone that has little grit, lines or other impurities or other issues. The best ones that I have are ones that I have cut myself from tested razor-grade stones that are ‘geometry challenged’ or ones that I’ve obtained in used lots from Japan. Recently, Takeshi put up a few that are really good, but they’re few and far between on his site these days. Max’s are too soft and coarse for razors but fine for knives. The best way to go is to talk to a reputable vendor, then just try them.

Don’t get wound around the axle about relative hardness, because you can never communicate just exactly how hard and abrasive your hone is without actually sending it, so the vendor can never exactly match a tomo to your hone based on hardness, fineness, and speed.

I look for finishing tomo that are about the same hardness as the hone, have a lot of grit in them, and as few impurities as possible, even more so than the hone. Beyond that, there isn’t much you can do if you’re not going to send the stone off or cut your own. Other than roll the dice, and that does work though it can get expensive.

 

[Toro Blanco]

The pair Alex did for me was 5++ for my base stone and a soft 5 borderline 4.5 but called it a 5. Very grit rich and fine.
I remember he said it came from a very valuable stone he dreaded cutting up but he found a flaw and did not want to sell to someone and have any problems. So he cut it for tomos.

I could not say it any better than Steve just posted! I agree 100%. I did the something very similar. I purchased tomos from most of the known sellers and found Takeshi sold some nice ones. I went through them and found some compatible ones and got good results.

I got a very special rare Nakayama kurumaguchi and wanted to pair it up with something special as I thought this stone deserved it. So I took it to Alex and all I can say is wow. I like to consider myself as a quick learner but know when to recognize something or someone as excemptional. He knows what he is doing and has all the tools and tricks to do things that most do not have any idea it could be done in such a manner. He reminded me of a master machinist I met that was in the Skunkworks program for Loockhead. He helped make the Blackbird 2000 a legendary spy plane. He was head and shoulders above any other machinist I have ever met. Very smart and had all these crazy tools and did things in ways I had never seen. Blew my mind at the time. Alex reminded me of him! They freeley shared the knowledge they had and wanted to share so you learned. They gave detailed time consuming reponses you rarely see people with half their knowledge. That in a nutshell is why I recommend him. I don't know how to say it any better. Hope this helps.

 

[GreazyThumbs]

I was originally planning on buying an Asano stamped piece of Koma, do you think this is a better route or is a matched tomo a better use of funds? Can I still use my Nagura with a matched tomo?

 

[rideon66]

I was originally planning on buying an Asano stamped piece of Koma, do you think this is a better route or is a matched tomo a better use of funds? Can I still use my Nagura with a matched tomo?

There are a multitude of options. Yes you can still use nagura and progress to a matched tomo which is what most do when using mikawa nagrua. You can even go no tomo at all if you wish and just use Atoma slurry from the base stone. This will all depend on the base stone too. The Atoma is the best way to test the quality of the base stone by itself also. Alex also used to have unstamped Koma which is real Koma that he got before Asano got it. I have a smaller piece I use when I do a full mikawa nagura progression and finish afterward on tomo nagura. I do lots of different things though depending on the razor the stone and my mood or preference that day. I use a progression of stones or a progression of different tomo to get things done sometimes or just the base stone and a tomo it all will get it done. As long as you set a good bevel and delete the old scratches to a good edge the end result you want depends on your preference for edge feel and figuring out how to best extract it from you stone. There are many ways to achieve it. Oh and to answer your question above the Tomo would be a better option as Koma is just a step between mejiro and tomo which many will skip the koma or even either mejiro or tenjyou. Then finish on Tomo. All steps are deleting scratches and refining the edge. By the end you are more polishing it.

 

[Toro Blanco]

+1 what rideon just posted. Again I could not say it any better.

I only use my mikawa nagura on knives now but not saying you cant use it. Just play with it and see how you like it.
I would skip the koma and spend it on a matched tomo. If you want to spend more buy a big piece of matched tomo! Lol! Jk kind of. I have more than once thought man I should have purchased a bigger piece. Lol!

I used to use DN more often but the matched nagura is my go to now.

Yes you can still use your mikawa nagura and finish with your matched tomo. I would definately playing atound with it as much you can. It it a great learning experience and it could help you out depending on your base stone. Playing in the mud is fun! Lol!

 

[Bowmaker]

I know next to nothing about about JNATS and only own a couple of them. Maybe I got lucky I don't know but for me they are the easiest way to shaving sharp.
I recently bought this one and have put a hand full of razors across it using a nagura matched to another stone from Alex. It was a job to lap as my diamond plates are all worn out and it still has a low corner. I was a little concerned about the red color coming to the surface when I lapped it but all is good. Like I said I know next to nothing about JNATs.

 

[jherm77]

Ohira red

Ozuku karasu

 

[Steve56]

This stone arrived yesterday and the skin looks Nakayama with deep ocher and umber colors. It’s hard and fine, and I pleased that it also seems perfectly pure, no lines, cracks, sparklies, etc. The face of the stone is wet in the image below, rather a pretty face I think, but considerably more subdued when dry. The pattern also runs pretty deeply into the stone, some karasu layers are very thin.

Preliminary tests before I flattened it, on it’s own slurry, are very promising, the Gold Monkey shaved very smoothly for the short pass or two that I made with it.

 

[Dilbone]

Picked this Wakasa up from Keith's store and wow, thoroughly impressed with the first few blades that I've taken for a touch up test drive on it.

Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk

 

[Sinnbad11]

Picked this Wakasa up from Keith's store and wow, thoroughly impressed with the first few blades that I've taken for a touch up test drive on it.

Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk

I almost bought that like 5 separate times.